Trekking poles necessary ?
- Thread starter Northwoods
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When I was walking up Catbells, I needed to use my hands other people had them and were contanstly changing. If they have bad kneeds then they are a fantastic idea
hmm- the collapsible/sliding ones are very convenient to pack away when you need both hands free for scrambling.
The spring-loaded shock absorbing bit would be a huge challenge to my non-mechanical mind.
Really can't recommend strongly enough that you revisit your opinion.
Using hiking poles is absolutely no guarantee that you won't fall over, if you do you want the poles as far away from you as possible.
If you have a downward force on the pole then they're extremely strong, if a pole gets caught and wedge in a hole or a gap in rocks then having it attached to your wrist is very dangerous.
Not only to you risk snapping the pole (imagine then falling on the jagged edge), by far the biggest risk is that the stuck pole will then cause you to trip.
If you are walking on rough rocky ground then even stumbling onto a knee is very painful, if you are hiking on a ridge then the consequences are even worse.
If that's not enough for you to rethink your opinion, then imagine the bodies bio-mechanics, if you are putting enough force onto the handles that you NEED the straps then you are using the poles incorrectly.
Not only will the straps put a force on your wrists at and angle your wrists were not meant for, it also means that you are not using the poles efficiently as a method of propelling yourself forward.
I have both the shock absorber style and fixed hiking poles, there is no difference in use except the shock absorbing type are heavier so your arms tire quicker.
Your arms do a far better job of absorbing shock, 100% a marketing gimmick to encourage people to part with more of their hard earned.
The tips of most poles are designed to snap (& are replaceable) if they jam in a crevice to protect you.
The straps are designed so that your weight hangs off of your frame rather than relying on you gripping the pole.
You're right though as the poles are designed to snap before bones do they could cause an injury if one stabbed you and due to its hollow section it'll take a core sample out of you which is serious. But the chances are pretty slim. As to being attatched to a pole in the case of a fall it's an old chestnut thats plagued climbers with ice axes for years. Should you be fixed to your poles in a fall in case they injure you or risk loosing them and get stuck somewhere tool-less and in greater danger? It's swings and roundabouts, you have to decide on the risk yourself.
Though I don't like leashes on knives and wood axes I personaly think they're a boon on poles and ice axes as the safety and biomechanical advantages outweigh the danger.
On the shock absorber front personaly I think the weight and usefullness aren't worth it. The shoulder joint absorbs impact well and unless you are running in a full pack that the absorber wont make a jot of difference.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
The straps are designed so that your weight hangs off of your frame rather than relying on you gripping the pole.
You're right though as the poles are designed to snap before bones do they could cause an injury if one stabbed you and due to its hollow section it'll take a core sample out of you which is serious. But the chances are pretty slim. As to being attatched to a pole in the case of a fall it's an old chestnut thats plagued climbers with ice axes for years. Should you be fixed to your poles in a fall in case they injure you or risk loosing them and get stuck somewhere tool-less and in greater danger? It's swings and roundabouts, you have to decide on the risk yourself.
Though I don't like leashes on knives and wood axes I personaly think they're a boon on poles and ice axes as the safety and biomechanical advantages outweigh the danger.
On the shock absorber front personaly I think the weight and usefullness aren't worth it. The shoulder joint absorbs impact well and unless you are running in a full pack that the absorber wont make a jot of difference.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
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I wll concede on the shock absorber point. 
However, on the grips point, the arguments stated above, whilst entirely valid, seem to me a bit like saying "Don't drive a car because the consequences of crashing would be terrible". I use poles, I put my hands through the loops, and find the grip secure, and have never had a fall of the type described above where the pole snapped. That isn't to say that I couldn't, just that it hasn't happened, and in my extensive experience of using poles seems unlikely to happen. I've had falls using poles, but far fewer than I would have had without them. The loops prevent you losing the pole when it jars off a rock and comes out of your grip, which is a far more frquent occurence than a pole-breaking fall.
Anyway, each to their own, and we agree on the point that a pair of walking poles is a useful thing to have
However, on the grips point, the arguments stated above, whilst entirely valid, seem to me a bit like saying "Don't drive a car because the consequences of crashing would be terrible". I use poles, I put my hands through the loops, and find the grip secure, and have never had a fall of the type described above where the pole snapped. That isn't to say that I couldn't, just that it hasn't happened, and in my extensive experience of using poles seems unlikely to happen. I've had falls using poles, but far fewer than I would have had without them. The loops prevent you losing the pole when it jars off a rock and comes out of your grip, which is a far more frquent occurence than a pole-breaking fall.
Anyway, each to their own, and we agree on the point that a pair of walking poles is a useful thing to have
Can't really understand how you can think that pole tips are designed to snap
Do you mean the plastic section that holds the tip?
If so i can safely say that out of the many poles i've used and bought over the years not one had any failure point built into it.
But even if they did it's the not the tip getting caught up that's the problem it's when it gets caught in a hole that's deep enough to wedge enough pole in it it's actually catching on the shaft.
Of course it really depends on the type of hiking you do, a hike round the local woods or the local park isn't likely to be much of a problem, but if you start heading into rockier territory then it's something that occurs and a regular basis, i.e. many times an hour.
This pole is just over 1 year old, every single scratch is from it getting caught or rubbing against rocks.
It's not just the carbon fibre poles either, every one of my hiking poles are badly scratched.
Don't see the comparison with a ice axe, a ice axe will be used to arrest a fall or slide, there is absolutely no way anyone should ever use a hiking pole as an arresting device.
Sure if you lose it it's a pain in the bum, but it's not like it's going to turn into a emergency situation because we have to hike without a hiking pole for a few miles.
I do leave my straps on my hiking poles, but i only use the straps to slip my hand through if i'm reading a map or taking a drink, if i'm hiking then i'll either have the strap resting inside my thumb (as opposed to having my hand through the strap) or i will just have the strap hanging loose.
Agree 100% on the "shock absorbing"
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I drew my info from nigh on 20 years of working in the outdoor industry. I stocked and sold lots of replacement tips as they'd done their job and snapped so as to avoid main section failure. It was designed in by the manufacturers.
Most main sections when they did fail tended to crimp, this helped again to avoid taking a core section out of folk.
I agree most poles shouldn't be used for arrest though Grivel did make a pole for alpanists that had a foldable ice axe pick for self arrest on a slope. Was pretty specialised and such a niche market that not many sold. Don't think they produce them anymore. So saying I did have cause to use one of my "traditional" walking staffs with an antler pick to arrest my fall on a slippery bluebell slope one day. Not what it was built for but it worked.
Like Harvestman says it's a bit like the fact that seatbelts in a car can break your ribs but hopefully they stop you doing a swandive out of the windshield. (So saying I've had them break my ribs and not stop me going through the windscreen all in the same accident). Doesn't mean you shouldn't use them, but in on the poles at least it's user choice and not a law.
So saying most.folk use pole straps incorrectly anyway. Hand should come up from underneath then the straps run through between the thumb and index fingers allowing you to hang off of the frame of your arm yet giving you slack and distance should you let go.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
Most main sections when they did fail tended to crimp, this helped again to avoid taking a core section out of folk.
I agree most poles shouldn't be used for arrest though Grivel did make a pole for alpanists that had a foldable ice axe pick for self arrest on a slope. Was pretty specialised and such a niche market that not many sold. Don't think they produce them anymore. So saying I did have cause to use one of my "traditional" walking staffs with an antler pick to arrest my fall on a slippery bluebell slope one day. Not what it was built for but it worked.
Like Harvestman says it's a bit like the fact that seatbelts in a car can break your ribs but hopefully they stop you doing a swandive out of the windshield. (So saying I've had them break my ribs and not stop me going through the windscreen all in the same accident). Doesn't mean you shouldn't use them, but in on the poles at least it's user choice and not a law.
So saying most.folk use pole straps incorrectly anyway. Hand should come up from underneath then the straps run through between the thumb and index fingers allowing you to hang off of the frame of your arm yet giving you slack and distance should you let go.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
I wll concede on the shock absorber point.
However, on the grips point, the arguments stated above, whilst entirely valid, seem to me a bit like saying "Don't drive a car because the consequences of crashing would be terrible". I use poles, I put my hands through the loops, and find the grip secure, and have never had a fall of the type described above where the pole snapped. That isn't to say that I couldn't, just that it hasn't happened, and in my extensive experience of using poles seems unlikely to happen. I've had falls using poles, but far fewer than I would have had without them. The loops prevent you losing the pole when it jars off a rock and comes out of your grip, which is a far more frquent occurence than a pole-breaking fall.
Anyway, each to their own, and we agree on the point that a pair of walking poles is a useful thing to have
As i say it really depends on where you walk and the type of terrain you walk in/on.
As a example around the Lake district i've had many instances where if i'd have had my hand through the strap the hiking pole would have caused a fall, a fall which i'm certain would have broken the pole.
On Crinkle Crags we even had a pole that stuck so firmly in a rock hole it went like a catapult from tension it built it in the fraction of a second before i let go.
Yet around the peak district getting it stuck in the mud and peat is more a worry.
I look after my kit but i also work it hard so have no sentimental attachment to it, if i lose or break some kit that's just the price i have to pay for working kit hard.
I'd sooner lose a hiking pole over the side of Crib Goch than have it cause a injury from a fall or piecing.
I think the car analogy is a poor example, i'm not saying don't drive a car i'm saying drive a car in a way that's appropriate to the roads you are driving on.
You wouldn't drive off-road like you would on a motorway, so it's logical that the way you hold or attach yourself to your hiking pole should change depending on the terrain.
As i don't know your specific experience i can't really accept "working in the outdoor industry" as a point.
No disrespect but "working in the outdoor industry" could mean anything being a sales assistant in a shop, through to a professional climber.
In either example it doesn't qualify a person was or give them any specific knowledge of how hiking poles are designed.
Even IF it did there are at least 4 major manufacturers each one has several different designs, you also have to take into consideration that hiking poles are made from different materials, using carbon fibre as a "break away" material on a hiking would be daft to the point of being legally contempt.
So even IF a certain pole is designed to "break away" it doesn't mean they all or even most others do.
Speaking as a engineer it would be extremely silly to design a point of failure at the very point that takes most of the load.
So i disagree that poles have a break away built into them.
Oh for goodness sake.
One quick Google.....
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=w...=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on
First result.....
http://www.leki.co.uk/photos/Leki FAQ.pdf
"The Carbide Flexitip is not glued on and is designed to come off understress, e.g., when jammed in a rock crack. This reduces the likelihood of thepole actually snapping"
There's no need to argue every point down to the last detail all the time.
One quick Google.....
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=w...=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on
First result.....
http://www.leki.co.uk/photos/Leki FAQ.pdf
"The Carbide Flexitip is not glued on and is designed to come off understress, e.g., when jammed in a rock crack. This reduces the likelihood of thepole actually snapping"
There's no need to argue every point down to the last detail all the time.
Yes I was a sales assistant. But also manager, customer service and buyer for a chain. Also co-operated with manufacturers on various projects as to design of equipment. This was due to a climbing and expedition background and being considered one of the best at my job. Black Diamond, Brasher, Leki and Grivel all designed the tip to be replaceable and friable so as not to cause damage to the more expensive parts of the pole or user. The pole tip is only designed to shear if the point becomes lodged and a lateral force applied, not the usual stress put on a pole during normal use.
You say that there are a load of manufacturers, well there are a lot of sellers but a lot fewer manufacturers with a few plants making poles for various people.
As to different styles yes there are. Some are so poor that they don't have frangible tips. Others just don't bother. As you say a lot of different materials are used. Some like carbon fiber though light weight don't handle concussive force to well. But some feel it's a play off for weight. Like when they started using it in ice axes. Lovely light tools but quite a few mates found to their cost that a kaput shaft due to striking an ice caulieflower wasn't fun. But they gave you an advantage in a competition.
So yes I'm not an engineer to trade though of that mindset, but I have worked closely with them on various tools being developed. All manufacturers have folk using them and working with them to aid in that.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
I will concede that but you can still scramble to some extent with a wooden staff dangling from a wrist strap, though I suppose that depends upon the difficulty of the terrain, but I am not talking rock climbing here. You can of course make your wooden poles in two sections although that does introduce weakness.
Hi Stew,
Sounds like marketing nonsense to me, how on earth they get from not glueing on a tip to "designed to come off under stress" is insanity
It's not "designed" to break away, it's just not glued on so it can easily be replaced.
Your google results only has 1 hit on that search phrase as well which is the Leki link, hardly a industry standard.
It might just be me, but this to me is not just any point, if someone is using poles under the expectation they will break away if the pole is trapped this is extremely dangerous on certain hikes (like say ridge walks) as it's simply not the case.
I have Leki, BD and Locus gear hiking poles, have used several other brands, all have been wedged in rocks at various times, non have broke away.
So again it might just be me, but i think it's an important point that needs to be clear, sorry if that annoys you.
GB,
Out of interest i have just pulled the tips off my Leki and BD poles, there is not thinning of material either inside or outside the tips.
While in the vice i put a fair bit of body weight on the hiking pole with the tip in the vice, to the point where i was concerned the aluminium shaft would buckle, the tip remained intact though.
Yes if you lift upwards with a fair bit of force the tip will detach, but there is no purposely weakend stress point on any of the tips.
Sorry if this seems pedantic, but as i say i think it's good to be clear that if you use hiking poles you shouldn't rely on the the tip or pole breaking away to save you from a fall.
Being a safety minded bod I try not to rely on safety devices for the sake of them. In climbing some pieces of gear were designed to fail in order to give sacrificial protection to the system as a whole. In a big whipper hopefully working in conjunction with the rest of the kit and slowing me down. I also tried very hard not to fall off in the first place.
Must say that on the pole tip front less snapped in summer. Plastic more pliable and less likely to shear. Maybe designed to go when outside in colder weather. Also for production ease they used the same tip over their range of products, so maybe overengineered for the lighter models?
In the end though it's not a highly worked up piece for a jet engine so not perfect, but safety and replaceability of carbide tips was the main idea behind it.
Some things on poles aren't that well thought out. The anti-shock is window dressing on most poles and the overly angled handles on the likes of Pacer Poles put undue stress on the users wrist if they are moving over anything but level ground. So aye people should be careful how and what they use and nothing replaces training, skill and taking care.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
Must say that on the pole tip front less snapped in summer. Plastic more pliable and less likely to shear. Maybe designed to go when outside in colder weather. Also for production ease they used the same tip over their range of products, so maybe overengineered for the lighter models?
In the end though it's not a highly worked up piece for a jet engine so not perfect, but safety and replaceability of carbide tips was the main idea behind it.
Some things on poles aren't that well thought out. The anti-shock is window dressing on most poles and the overly angled handles on the likes of Pacer Poles put undue stress on the users wrist if they are moving over anything but level ground. So aye people should be careful how and what they use and nothing replaces training, skill and taking care.
Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
Great for helping go downhill when you get on a bit, my, how i envied an older mr member get off the hill with poles, you had to be there to believe it,his actions were cartoonish but worked a treat. I tried but could never,nor, have i seen anyone do the same.
There are plenty of walking routes where having a wooden pole dangling would be more than a bit silly. Crib Goch in Wales comes to mind.
Trekking poles? Yes, they are useful and can relieve some of the bashing that your knees undergo when walking over the hills. I carry two because they are also the poles for my tarp if there are no trees around.
But one thing that I do find inconvenient is the fact that your hands are full when you're using them. If you need to navigate, using map and compass - a distinct possibility when out and about - they do get in the way. Yes, you can put them down in order to check where you are/where you're going, but, with a big pack on, it can be a chore to bend down and pick them up again. Over broken ground, they are not that great: rocky or uneven terrain means that you cannot always find good regular placements for the poles and end up waving them around, dragging them behind you and not really benefitting from their use at all. That said, when you have a long haul uphill on relatively even ground, they are a huge help, setting a rhythm and providing a bit of extra oomph from your arms when you need it most. I did the section from Monmouth to Hay-on-Wye on the Offa's Dyke footpath very recently in one push; from Pandy, up and over Hay Bluff, the poles were invaluable, really helping me to crack on on what turned out to be a l-o-n-g afternoon section!
I would always use two, because of the twisting factor and because they prop up my tarp and I would say that they are useful selectively. A friend of mine who is a Mountain Guide tried them out for a while and eventually consigned to the shed because he felt they were affecting his balance and therefore his ability to move confidently on rock. Last I heard, he was using one because, in the mountains, he always had his ice axe with him.
But one thing that I do find inconvenient is the fact that your hands are full when you're using them. If you need to navigate, using map and compass - a distinct possibility when out and about - they do get in the way. Yes, you can put them down in order to check where you are/where you're going, but, with a big pack on, it can be a chore to bend down and pick them up again. Over broken ground, they are not that great: rocky or uneven terrain means that you cannot always find good regular placements for the poles and end up waving them around, dragging them behind you and not really benefitting from their use at all. That said, when you have a long haul uphill on relatively even ground, they are a huge help, setting a rhythm and providing a bit of extra oomph from your arms when you need it most. I did the section from Monmouth to Hay-on-Wye on the Offa's Dyke footpath very recently in one push; from Pandy, up and over Hay Bluff, the poles were invaluable, really helping me to crack on on what turned out to be a l-o-n-g afternoon section!
I would always use two, because of the twisting factor and because they prop up my tarp and I would say that they are useful selectively. A friend of mine who is a Mountain Guide tried them out for a while and eventually consigned to the shed because he felt they were affecting his balance and therefore his ability to move confidently on rock. Last I heard, he was using one because, in the mountains, he always had his ice axe with him.
So I went and bought some cheap £5.99 poles, no doubt I'll end up hating them and wishing I bought some GTX carbon fuel injected ones!
