Trapping crawfish

[Uncle Alvah]

I've seen a few references on here about crawfish and how to trap them.

Pretty much everything one might need to know about the subject, and then some, can be found here.

http://www.terrybullard.com/

Hopefully, some might find the info usefull!

 

[badgeringtim]

Sorry to be a bit of a downer here but there are some very good reasons NOT to get involved in trapping crayfish.
Im not going to have a big rant here and go through them in more than brief but for those who are interested these are worth knowing.
Presumaby in the UK people are talking about trapping Signal crayfish or other invasives (noble etc) first problem making sure you have the right ones - people DO often confuse them for the natives although i have not idea how they are very diferent and you shoud be able to tell them from a very small size (far smaller than trap will catch).
Secondly is transfer of the Pluage - there are many many instances of well wishing people being the source of pluage transmittal from non native to native populations, entire white clawed crayfish river systems have been killed off by this. This still happens.
Im not going to cover people spreading them for food and 'wildernes activity centre activities' - clearly distributing an invasive species is never a good thing.
The traps are not safe for other species - although i have not looked at these specifically, the majority (all but on manufacturer which i know of) of traps as sold are illegal for use in british water ways as they are a risk to both otters and water voles (the water vole proof trap is not and isn't sanctioned for use). They require modification to make them legal.
Talking of legality, there are a number of laws and bylaws relating to crayfish you cannot trap them without a licence, the EA does not permitt trapping for food because of the above etc etc.
Finally the shocker - traps take the larger individuals from a population, and these larger ones actually help to control the numbers in the population so by taking the large ones there i no argument for assisting removal/reduction of the population,

This isnt exhaustive and i dont wish to sound evangelical about it all. One of the reasons im keen to say all this is that it sounded like a great idea to me too, im very much into gathering, using the natural resources around us, from the woods to the animals and the fruits. But i would hope that when there are circumstances where what seems like a good idea and very woodsy can be shown actually not to be that people might listen and take on board rather than be dismissive.

If anyone wants more infomation they are welcome to email me - im not on here that much.

best wishes

 

[Toadflax]

Talking of legality, there are a number of laws and bylaws relating to crayfish you cannot trap them without a licence, the EA does not permitt trapping for food because of the above etc etc.

You may well be correct, but when I was researching getting a trapping license last year (which I haven't actually done, but then again I haven't been trapping either) personal consumption did appear to be an acceptable reason for trapping. If that isn't the case, then I can't see why there would be commercial (licensed) trappers operating the Thames in Oxford - and where the crays in the local restaurants come from. However, as you say, the EA is now saying that trapping isn't necessarily going to control populations.

Regarding the 'safety' of traps, I was just going to use a (licensed) dropnet while I went fishing, or some bacon on a string, just to get sufficient crays for myself and family to eat occasionally.

Trapping crays does appear to be becoming a bit of a "fashion activity", given the way it is being mentioned on lots of the cooking programs on TV, and for me that puts me off a bit. I don't want to something that everyone else is doing.


Geoff

 

[badgeringtim]

Geof,
I would be surprised if things have changed in the last year - but having said this im not part of the EA and can only relay what they have told me recently. I do know that there was a lot of trapping going on and it was from this that the research showing that trapping doesn't work as a control, perhaps this accounts for a possible shift?
I dont know about the issue with the Thames, but suspect there may have been licences available to this under certain conditions in the past. Certainly the EA (in an earlier incarnation) was actuall involved in funding the stocking of some areas with Signals... although this was some 30 years ago

Its exactly because it is being mentioned on programs on TV that is is likely to become more of a problem. Im hopefull that people here and all those who i have talked to about this will take the balanced view. Its such a shame, infact bordering on the criminal, that in these shows they dont give a mention to the legal state. Im sure they wouldn't condone poaching? But then licences and animal welfare are not often put in context on TV, i think the assumption is that people are stupid and dont want to know. I think mainly people watch these things for information and as such it should be there if only mentioned briefly.
Might look into the Thames thing a bit, there may be a separate commercial area which i wouldnt know about.

 

[Toadflax]

Given that it wouldn't cost me anything, I may well apply for a license to use a single dropnet in the Thames, with the reason being for personal consumption. That would be a good test case to see whether personal consumption is a valid reason.

What I found most frustrating last year was that I was trying to do 'the right thing' by checking and being legal, yet you know that many people just go and do it and get away with it...and in the end the hoops that I was going to have to jump through made me lose interest, given that I was probably only going to go once or twice a year.

Regarding the Thames, here's one of the local trappers http://www.crayfishremovaloxon.co.uk (OK they don't mention the Thames itself but I do remember a local newspaper article about someone trapping commercially in Port Meadow).

There was one program recently that my wife called me in to watch, where the presenter finished off by saying words to the effect "so go out there and get trapping", and in the equivalent of small print "but remember you do need permission and a licence".


Geoff

 

[badgeringtim]

Id be very interested to see what their response would be.
Im fairly sure it would be a big no-no. but you never know..

There are also the issues of other species being affected otter and water vole to name few of the more fluffy ones.

I do hear what you say about people doing it anyway-but isnt it always the way with most laws, we all speed occasionally but how often are we caught. This one happens to be one which i think is worth listening too though. At least when it comes to protected species licences etc the EA cant be as bad and NE! grrrr. But that surely is another topic.

 

[Oblio13]

Thanks for posting this, I'm going to order one of his traps and see how it works. We live on a lake and I enjoy eating crawfish, but have had difficulty catching enough to make it worthwhile either with standard minnow traps or by hand.

 

[practicalsurvivor]

Thanks for this post, I use one similar to catch bait fish.

I will build a smaller model so I can see if it will help me trap the smaller crawfish at the lake. It can be used as bait to catch big fish. This is one I caught on a recent fishing trip.

 

[gunslinger]

Regarding the 'safety' of traps, I was just going to use a (licensed) dropnet while I went fishing, or some bacon on a string, just to get sufficient crays for myself and family to eat occasionally.

Geoff

A dropnet is not considered a trap or engine as the EA seem to at times refer to traps.
Unless of course you do not mean a drop net??
As it is open ergo nothing actually gets trapped but rather pulled up when you lift the net it would be the same as tying an old orange net full of rotting meat in the river and lifting crays with it.

A such it does not require a license according to my conversation with the EA last year.

As to trapping increasing the population due to removing cannibalistic adults,sorry I cannot subscribe to that theory. I think we need a qualified biologist to answer that one,but it seems to be bandied about all over the web.

If there are licenses for commercial enterprises why would the same scenario apply there?

Doesnt help me in my area as I have never manged to find any??

GS

 

[badgeringtim]

Gunslinger, more info on the other post on this topic regarding the EA stance.
I think you are probably right with the drop net - as it is not a trap per-se. However in terms of permissions you would of course need to get the right ones.

The trapping not reducing numbers has been well documented - not 'bandied around' and is a relatively well known phenomena in quite a few invert species. Im not sure how you mean qualified but think if you are interested there is a plethera of information (from reputable sources) available on the net.
Im not sure how qualified you want but some of the research comes from two of the foremost crayfish experts in the UK who wrote much of the guidance and regularly remove signals crayfish from areas in which they can prevent inundations of new areas and possibly retain white claw populations.

 

[ZDP-189]

It was reported there were zillions of crayfish in that huge lake, and there were. It was said that if a person were to drown in the lake they would have to be recovered within 8 hours or else the crayfish would have them completely consumed. That was also true as I was to learn later.

:yikes:

I don't want to drink out of that lake, let alone eat the crayfish.

 

[gunslinger]

Gunslinger, more info on the other post on this topic regarding the EA stance.
I think you are probably right with the drop net - as it is not a trap per-se. However in terms of permissions you would of course need to get the right ones.

The trapping not reducing numbers has been well documented - not 'bandied around' and is a relatively well known phenomena in quite a few invert species. Im not sure how you mean qualified but think if you are interested there is a plethera of information (from reputable sources) available on the net.
Im not sure how qualified you want but some of the research comes from two of the foremost crayfish experts in the UK who wrote much of the guidance and regularly remove signals crayfish from areas in which they can prevent inundations of new areas and possibly retain white claw populations.

So if this is the case then surely granting permission for commercial operations would have a far worse impact than a few people catching for personal consumption.
Sorry but that seems to contradict the EA stance.ie. Trapping loads is OK but trapping a few is often frowned on.

As to experts do you have links to these crayfish biologists?

As to the drop net or ball of bacon rind etc,I have checked again and they do not require a license as in fact neither does a line other than a fishing license.
As to permission if the river is owned then you would theoretically need permission from the local council or landowner.
I am not advocating breaking the law but I doubt that the council would be bothered ,my local one certainly is not.

GS

For more info see. http://www.crayfishking.com/forum/

 

[badgeringtim]

Well as with most things once they are set up and comercial thay can be monitored far more stringently i suppose..?
Im not defending the idea - as i said previously im not a fan although i can see the above point done very stringently - and maybe it is. I dont know about the comercial aspects, and didnt mean to suggest that i do. Could it be that some of these have been there for a long time?
Do i have links, not sure if you mean web links to info or personal links. I do work with crayfish from time to time and have met a few of thee people yes. I wouldnt count them as friends... not quite sure where that one is going?

I also have a biological degree and do work under a personal licence to disturb native crayfish - not sure if that would be what u mean as qualified ;-)


I mentioned the permissions just because there are seperate bylaws for crayfish as well as the ones for 'normal' fish. I dont know the legislation relating to fishing was all i meant, im sure people wouldnt want to be accidentally poaching?
So to fish in your own river you have to ask the council...thats interesting.

Well i hope this has been useful for a few folks - it has definitely clarified things for me!

 

[Oblio13]

I've seen a few references on here about crawfish and how to trap them.

Pretty much everything one might need to know about the subject, and then some, can be found here.

http://www.terrybullard.com/

Hopefully, some might find the info usefull!

Just received a trap I ordered from this fellow. I thought it was rather expensive until I had it in my hands. It's very well conceived and made. He also responded quickly to a couple questions I had. The trap just went in the water and my fingers are crossed. The water temp is cool, so I'm not sure how active the crawfish still are, but I guess I'll find out.

 

[Nagual]

To add further confusion to the mix, after read the above I tried to do some search on the ol' interweb to see whats what in Scotland. SEPA sites etc. etc. aren't exactly full of immediately available info, however I have come across a few bits n bobs that may be of interest, if not exactly informative... if that makes any sense.

This here has this to say about it:

16/08/2008

Information on how to deal with one of Scotland's most notorious alien species, the signal crayfish, will be published today.

The species is an increasingly common sight, particularly in Loch Ken where it has become the dominant species.

A new leaflet on the signal crayfish and the threat it poses will be launched by Environment Minister Michael Russell at the Galloway Game Fair.

"Any angler who catches one is urged to kill it on sight, not to throw it back into the water or take it away alive and contact the Scottish Government, Fisheries Research Services, Scottish Natural Heritage or SEPA."

The leaflet appeals to anglers, canoeists, boaters and anyone who visits Scotland's rivers and lochs to look out for signal crayfish and help to eliminate them from our freshwater. The species is extremely mobile and has a limited ability to move over land in search of food or a new habitat. This means that they can spread very easily once introduced to a new waterbody.

More info is found at the Scottish National Heritage site Here.

Signal crayfish have been present in Britain since they were first imported from Sweden during the 1970s. Subsequent escapes from farms and deliberate illegal releases have resulted in the establishment of new feral signal crayfish populations over large areas of England and Wales. Several records exist of signal crayfish introductions to Scotland during the 1980s and there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that crayfish were translocated to a variety of locations at that time. They were first formally recorded in Scotland during 1995, since when a total of 15 populations have been identified. These extend from the Kirkcudbrightshire Dee in Galloway and the River Clyde in Lanarkshire to the River Nairn near Inverness. Populations have also been recorded in the catchments of some of Scotland’s most valuable river systems, such as the Tay, Tweed and North Esk. New populations are now being reported at a frequency of two or three per year.

This site has several areas of sightings of crayfish marked.

Unfortuantly, I cannot find any information regarding the licensed catching crayfish in Scotland, however if you take the above into consideration, the accidental catching of them is certainly not to be concidered illegal, and you infact have to kill them. Makes you think. Anyhoo, I've contacted both SNH and SEPA to see what they have to say, and will post here with any info that the provide, but don't hold your breaths..


Nag.

 

[napoleon1801]

I've seen a few references on here about crawfish and how to trap them.

Pretty much everything one might need to know about the subject, and then some, can be found here.

http://www.terrybullard.com/

Hopefully, some might find the info usefull!

I didn't really care for this fellow's site. He seems more like a salesman than a crafter. I couldn't really find much in the way of useful info on the site besides him bragging about how wonderful his traps are.

I've been looking around for a better link for crayfish trapping or a diy trap tutorial, but there isn't really much on the subject on the web. I think I'm going to get some wire from the hardware store and attempt to make a trap and try it out in the local lake when I get the chance.