Traditional Beliefs

[hootchi]

I'm not getting spiritual here, just traditional.

I watched ray Mears the other day and he carved a wolves head into a type of old canadian cod lure to bring him good fishing.

Was just wondering what the 'Gods' of fire, water, hunting etc were in ancient beliefs? What cultures were these part of and how did they work?

I was thinking of carving some animals into my next carvings like a spoon and I've got a nice burl lined up :super: I need to do something with!

I know it's tricky one but thanks :biggthump

 

[Gary]

Hootchi the scope of the answer is so wide its frightening.

Before you worry about Gods and spirits to dedicate your work to - or to make offerings to to ask for a good hunt. journey ect you must first decide which native cultural back ground you wish to follow - native American spirits while very similar in 'being' have different names ect to Aboriginal Dreamtime spirits which again are different to ancient british ones.

Decide where your heart lies and then the spirits will come to you and you'll find the answers present themselves.

 

[Rhapsody]

Carve a Tapir!

I don't know about good luck, but it'd certainly make for an interesting spoon!

 

[Kim]

Gary's right Hootchi, such a field is vast. From Celtic traditions, to Nordick/Viking/European/Greek/Roman/Wiccan...!! Crikey, you know how to ask a simple question! And as well as Gods/Godesses the meaning of individual animals also differes from culture to culture, some signifying wisdom, another magic, death, courage etc...

If you're not sure what direction to go, what belief system resonates most with you? It may give you a place to start from, even if it comes down to what animal appeals to you most, and in what significant way.

Good luck with whichever project you choose...and yes, we do expect to see pictures!!

:biggthump

 

[RovingArcher]

Yep, it's been nailed by Gary and Kim. But, umm, going traditional in any of the ancient populations means going spiritual. One thing that stands out amoung most of the ancients was their belief that all things had spirit, including the Earth. I believe that these peoples recognition of the different spirits and their qualities have baffled scientists into believing that these ancient peoples prayed to many Gods. No matter where that truth lies, a simple walk in the woods meant a heck of a lot to them and they treated each life they met, even stones, with the utmost reverence.

They made monuments to keep track of the Sun and Moon, ie. Stone Henge, the huge medicine wheels that dot North America and the huge Pueblos in the American SouthWest. Similar symbols have been found in each of these places. What differs is how the Scientists view why they were built. I believe they were constructed for the same purpose, but of course, I'm no scientist. :shock:

 

[Squidders]

Yeah, the creation of these huge stone works is still a mystery and any explanation will be based on more preference than factual understanding.

I like to think that some of these huge sites were built only to confuse future generations.

Take Easter Island in the Pacific for example, lots and lots of huge figures stood up all over the place. There's no way they would have been made as a defence to scare invaders off, even primitive people could see they are not animate creatures. With all the effort to carve these things being spent, it's not really surprising that the practical necessity of continuing your culture and not dying out was forgotten.

You really could carve anything and have some spiritual significance, many carvings for plenty and fertility were of plump ladies with no clothes on. I think the tradition of carving naked ladies should continue unabated.

So, there's my idea, a spoon with a naked lady carved into it.

 

[arctic hobo]

There's no way they would have been made as a defence to scare invaders off, even primitive people could see they are not animate creatures.

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not saying that they were for defence, but there remain tribespeople who will jump a mile at a picture of a tiger/large predator, even hand drawn. There's a well known psychological study in which tribespeople were shown a picture of an elephant, and half the tribe ran away terrified, and they only restored order by turning it sideways and showing that it was 2D. Imagine showing them a film :shock:

 

[Keith_Beef]

Was just wondering what the 'Gods' of fire, water, hunting etc were in ancient beliefs? What cultures were these part of and how did they work?

Try this for starters:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3623

Keith.

 

[tomtom]

most evidance suggests that the Easter Island heads were carvings of the line of cheifs of the tribe on the Island!

 

[Paganwolf]

most evidance suggests that the Easter Island heads were carvings of the line of cheifs of the tribe on the Island!

No wonder they were chiefs with heads that big!!

 

[jakunen]

If you're not sure what direction to go, what belief system resonates most with you? It may give you a place to start from, even if it comes down to what animal appeals to you most, and in what significant way.

Very good point Kim.

A few years ago I had to do some research into alternate and 'ancient' beliefs and was amazed at how similar many of the 'ancient' belief systems were.
I was also struck by how the 'feel' of the individual systems, and the paraphenalia associated with them felt to me personally.

Some just didn't feel right to me so I left the books alone and looked at others...

 

[hootchi]

Thanks for you thoughts people. I didn't realise what a vast subject this was. I think someone has got some thinking to do. :roll:

Kim and Gary; I will take some of your advice and you may get your spoon Squidders. ):

I have found this and this which may give me a bit of a starting point.

Cheers

 

[zambezi]

Hootchi, the inspiration for your artwork can be taken from many sources and, as this thread has shown, there is a rich tapestry of iconography to be drawn from all the cultures that have preceded us.

Whilst all of the the replies in this thread are useful to that pursuit, some have offered a spiritual element which you specifically did not include at the outset.

Any image that was created by another human is no more than that. In any spiritual quest the question is; who created the object that the viewer drew?

I will happily field any PM in that earnestly seeks an answer to that question.

 

[Les Marshall]

Hootchi, I once posed the very same question to the father of an aboriginal friend of mine and he told me that if you ask the spirits to guide you, then you carving will reproduce the spirit of the animal that is calling to you.

 

[tomtom]

hootchi which ever of the aincant religion you look at their, relationships with animals in the context your talking about generaly stem back to the same things, which are the characteristics and qualitys of an anmial you wish to bring to what ever you are doing by honoring that animal (or bird or fish)..
you mentioned ray's wolf and thats a good exhample.. the wolf is a master hunter and that, of course, is something you want on your side when your fising for your dinner so you carve it in your fishing lure to bring the power or energy of the wolf to your hunt.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Very good point Kim.

A few years ago I had to do some research into alternate and 'ancient' beliefs and was amazed at how similar many of the 'ancient' belief systems were.
I was also struck by how the 'feel' of the individual systems, and the paraphenalia associated with them felt to me personally.

Some just didn't feel right to me so I left the books alone and looked at others...

If you read the Golden Bough, you'll understand that just about every folk belief and superstition throughout the world has derived from primitive man's observation of the natural world.

Since nature is essentially the same the world over, though local conditions vary, it stands to reason that people in places as far apart as Greenland and Polynesia should arive at similar bases for their beliefs.

As our societies become more "civilised", many of these beliefs were reduced (in the sense of their scope being reduced, or hemmed in) to folk tales such as those collected and studied by Grimm and Anderson.

Now, we often think of these as "fairy tales for children", but most are the distant echoes of early religious practises and beliefs.
For example, the tale of sleeping beauty is an echo of the tradition of shutting away girls at the first mentruation (sometimes for just a week, sometimes for as long as seven years) that was still practised ni certain parts of the world into the 19th, and maybe even the 20th, century.

Keith.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

When I actually made a living in archaeology lots of my indian friends were employed as monitors. These are reperesentatives of the local culture ( if surviving) to insure respect for burials and religous artifacts if encountered. We used to privately joke about 2 groups of people. The first were 'born again indians' who discovered great grandmother was on some tribal registry. We could see them a mile away; ribbon shirts, 20 lbs of Dine' jewellry, a Lakota dreamcatcher on the truck mirror and a FREE LEONARD PELTIER bumpersticker. Invariably they would give me a look of disdain and then tell the monitor how they were teaching the kids LaCross and going on a vision quest and oh, don't let that wasits'su steal anything. My best buddy finally made me carry my Choctaw tribal roll document to shut some of these idiots up. The second group were starry eyed lost souls seeking some reintegration with the world studying the 'NOBLE SAVAGE'. Nothing wrong with that, except they turned my poor associate into some caricature that could talk Bald Eagles into landing on his forearm and ordered diet pepsi at the after dig pizza party so as not to offend him drinking beer. He received enough abalone shells with white sage offerings to finally inlay a low brick fence for his rose garden.We loved drinking beer in that sanctuary on saturdays. The world is full of beautifull symbols and 'culture borrowing' a long worldwide tradition. Some people like wolves, some Harly-Davidson patches. There are a few that are in poor taste. The popular 'tribal tattoos' mimic something that is earned in some cultures for example. Find what you like, or, invent a new one. I like big intricate celtic N's. People ask what it means. I reply N= nothing. Nothing is sacred ): then again, everything is