Too much Kit

wentworth

Settler
Aug 16, 2004
573
3
40
Australia
When trying to cut down gear weight, ultralighters talk about base-weight, which is the weight of your pack minus food and water. You can't really lighten up water...
When I first started weighing my gear individually, I was appalled at how much seemingly insignificant items weighed. It all adds up.
When I was using an 8 by 10 tarp and half length foam pad for shelter, my total gear weighed 3.3kg. But I wasn't comfortable, so now I use a hammock and underquilt and my gear is just above 5kg.
 

scanker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 15, 2005
2,326
24
52
Cardiff, South Wales
When people are referring to ration packs, do you mean an individidual meal or do you mean 2xmeals, soup, oat block etc etc?
 

Doc

Need to contact Admin...
Nov 29, 2003
2,109
10
Perthshire
Should add that this refers to the query about their calorific value, rather than dried jobbies......
 

BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
78
Near Washington, D.C.
Most of the early outdoor writers like Nessmuk and Kephart stressed keeping the weight down but when I go back and re-read some of the weights they quoted, I begin to wonder about the truthfulness of some of the numbers, honestly. I do weigh some of my own gear now and then, although the total is more interesting than individual weights. I find that it is difficult to keep it under 20 pounds if water is included and that it jumps to over 30 pounds very quickly, for some reason. I also note that those early writers I mention apparently did not carry water or at least not very much. But Kephart went in a lot of detail about purifying water so it wasn't as if he thought he could take water from anywhere. In my case, I've noticed that the weight of water in my standard load is the single heaviest item. So if I carry no more than one pint and purify the rest that I need by boiling with my gas stove, I more than make up for the weight of the stove. (I don't own a filter). That is, provided you have a source of water to begin with. Again in my case, I have been places where the trail was crossed by creeks in several places and was like that over half of my trip, but the other half of the trip (of a ten mile circle hike) was perfectly dry with no water source anywhere. I guess you can't have everything.

However, there is more to it than simple weight.

For one thing, a pack that fits well and is comfortable, yet weighs a few pounds more, just might be a better choice for covering ground pain-free. That also applies to boots. Did you ever notice, by the way, that armies use boots that most backpackers would find too high or too heavy and more recent ones are even more so. But as Horace Kephart also said, "They are not out for the fun of it."

The question of weight is also a compromise between the discomfort and effort of carrying things and the comfort of having them. You could probably get by with a ground sheet, a bottle of water, a handful of something to eat and so on, but would you want to?

In response to the person referring to wilderness here in the U.S., it is my assertion that there is practically none east of the Mississippi (outside of Maine, perhaps). This is not to say that there are no remote, secluded or isolated places with wild animals and no roads. It's just that I define wilderness a little more narrowly than that. Just the way I define emergency.
 

jamesdevine

Settler
Dec 22, 2003
823
0
49
Skerries, Co. Dublin
I think Blue trains thought regarding the type of pack you are using and the boots you are wearing are key to all this.

As a rule other then in mid winter my weekend pack never weight anything more the 15kg and more often then not it's below that. On a resent overnight trip my kit consided of

Swedish Army 35lt rucksack 2kg
Sleeping bag (heavy, cheap and bulky)
bivvy bag and basha
head torch
Wooden Spoon
58 bottle, SS mug and cooker unit in beltpouch
FAK
Knife
Fire light kit
10cm Billy
1x Spares socks
1x Spare jumper
M65 jacket
2ltr Flexi Flask
map and compass.
Food for two main meals, one breakfast + chocolate
2x tea bags + 2x Hot Chocolate.
Sun Hat

It all weight in at 12KG. It was more then enogh and with a little more food one have done for the weekend. But the pack got uncomfortable as did my boots (partly due to my own poor fittness, the heat and the amount of road walking we had to do) it felt a lot heavier.

James
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,624
246
Birmingham
stevec said:
I'm terrible at packing, either i've got way too much or (infrequently!) too little. i think i read someone (possibly the book of the bivi) that the way to reduce kit weight is as follows.
Get home, unpack. Divide kit into three piles, the stuff you used every day, the stuff ou used on the odd occasion, the stuff you didn't use.
now making exceptions like first aid kits, chuck all the stuff in piles 2 and 3.
drastic, and i fully confess i've yet to try this method!!!
all the best
sc

I know someone who could do this.

But with me that spare pair of ... always seem to get in the ruc and then I better take that, you never know. :rolleyes:
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,624
246
Birmingham
BlueTrain said:
I find that it is difficult to keep it under 20 pounds if water is included and that it jumps to over 30 pounds very quickly, for some reason. I also note that those early writers I mention apparently did not carry water or at least not very much. But Kephart went in a lot of detail about purifying water so it wasn't as if he thought he could take water from anywhere.

I think, a lot of the lightweights avoid giving weights with water and sometimes food.

That said, one of them had a clever set up of two hydration sacs and a filter so he only carried three litres a day.
 

Grez

Forager
Apr 16, 2005
108
0
49
-
This is what I was thinking I would pack for a weekend away.

What do you think? To much??? :confused: :confused:

Packed into Sabre 45 + Side Pockets

Main
-----
Sleeping Bag
Bivi Bag
Therm-a-Rest
Change of Clothes
2 x Socks
2 x Pants
1 x Combats
2 x T-Shirts
1 x Norgi Top
Tent/Basha

Side Pouch
----------
Swedish Army Trangia (Packed Inside "Scourer, Dish Washing Liquid, KFS, Hand Wash")
Meths
Tinder Pouch
Note Book & Pen/Pencil
Para Cord
Poncho
Toilet Roll

Side Pouch
----------
Water Bottles
Spoon Knife
Drink Kit
Food
Wash Kit (Toothpaste, Soap, Toothbursh, Hairbrush, Deoderant)
Towel
Torch + Spare Batteries

Top Pocket
----------
First Aid
Wooly Hat
Gloves

Grez..
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
51
**********************
Tent/Basha and Poncho? you'll only need one of these items

you'll be wearing one set of clothes there, so you only need one set of clothes in the bag, which you will only need to use if your main set gets soaked.

Hairbrush, Deoderant....... Why? night on the town :confused:
 

Grez

Forager
Apr 16, 2005
108
0
49
-
Thanks for the feedback Stuart.

When I laid it out I was wondering if I was taking to much. The total weight is currently 17kg when packed which isn't as bad as I had first thought.

Stuart said:
Hairbrush, Deoderant....... Why? night on the town

Hmmm hind sight is a wonderful thing.. I can't really give a reason but why, But it seemed like a good idea at the time.... :D

Grez..
 

leon-1

Full Member
Yep agree with Stuart on the clothes, Although a spare T-shirt maybe worth the time.

I can see where you are coming from with the Basha/ tent and the poncho, ie; if you are setting up your cover when it is piddling down you want waterproofs on as you are doing it. Depending on your type of poncho you may have to take it off when you take you sabre 45 off, you will get wet anyway.

Keep the basha easily accessible, side pouch or just under the top flap of the sack.

Toilet roll???

You're better of with the packs of handy andies (if that's what they still call them), I can get ten packs for a quid in my local area, they are small, easy to pack and because they are packed in ten sheets if one pack gets wet that's not all your toilet roll gone to mush in your daysack.

You don't need dish washing liquid and hand soap, just use an all purpose soap if you feel the requirement to wash your dishes with a detergent (all purpose you can wash with, you can do your laundry, use for food prep and do your dishes in).

You don't need a fork or knife as we all carry enough bits to cut with, forks are pretty much redundant in the feild so no requirement for KFS only really a spoon (which you could carve when you are out there).

Generally it's a pretty good list and the things picked on are just me knitpicking:D
 

arctic hobo

Native
Oct 7, 2004
1,630
4
38
Devon *sigh*
www.dyrhaug.co.uk
leon-1 said:
I can see where you are coming from with the Basha/ tent and the poncho, ie; if you are setting up your cover when it is piddling down you want waterproofs on as you are doing it. Depending on your type of poncho you may have to take it off when you take you sabre 45 off, you will get wet anyway.

Keep the basha easily accessible, side pouch or just under the top flap of the sack.
This is why I love the Fjellduken - instead of (potentially) carrying a basha, a poncho/waterproofs, a survival bag, possibly a foil blanket as well, and a bag cover, you can have the Fjellduken, use it as a poncho that eliminates the bag cover, tie the sides out while you're under it, then pull out your head - bingo! one basha, and you're still dry.
Toilet roll???

You're better of with the packs of handy andies (if that's what they still call them), I can get ten packs for a quid in my local area, they are small, easy to pack and because they are packed in ten sheets if one pack gets wet that's not all your toilet roll gone to mush in your daysack.
Also, you can, er, use vaseline that can, er, eliminate the need for the above :eek:
 

charlie.b.c.

Member
Jun 19, 2005
12
0
55
essex
1 change of clothes should be suffice only just to sleep in if your other clothes get wet saves you getting sleeping bag damp,,,,,opt for tarp rather than a bivi bag,,cooker if you can make a fire no need for cooker otherwise take only one,a collapsable swedish issue mug are handy to keep even in your pocket,wash kit depends how you are with vanity (ha ha),spoon only no knife and fork my view is you dont eat a lump of sirloin when camping like we do otherwise use your fingers or a non poisonous piece of wood, i hope these ideas help the only real way to test yourself is to leave the gagdets at home,,test yourself in a controlled enviroment for example i smoke so when i go camping or need to light a fire ill leave my matches/lighter at home so if i need to make a fire i would have to use my fire steel or c steel say to produce flame etc hope this helps ,,,charlie.b.c.
 

jay120970

Tenderfoot
Sep 9, 2005
85
0
54
devon
well here goes

norge army bergen
2xus water bottles with covers and one us mug
swedish field cooker
folding kfs set with belt pouch
sleeping bag
bivi bag and tarp
roll mat
waterproof pants and coat hence no need for spare clothes as you can use the waterproofs for spares as well
food
knife x1
strike a light and spare matches and cottonwool
spare socks
wash kit
i use drygrass for scrubbing my pots after using them gets 90% of the greese of
and thats it for summer
winter is an other kettle of fish :)
 

nzgunnie

Tenderfoot
Sep 11, 2005
61
0
New Zealand
A couple of years ago, 'ultra light' tramping was starting to get a bit fashionable here, there was a guy, a Brit I think, who was singing it's praises. A few articles appeared in our Wilderness magazine about the possibility of making your own light weight pack, only carrying a lightweight fly sheet and some fancy kind of sleeping bag (can't quite remember the details of that one), the lightest boots possible etc. One very interesting article was by a chap who had suffered a bad back injury and was not able to carry heavy gear, so he had designed and built lots of lightweight stuff. I too had problems with my back so it was a concept that interested me as well.

Then one of these guys that had been trying to promote this concept of Ultra-light gear went up into the Southern Alps in the South Island and promptly perished when the weather turned (which it inevitably always does). Very unfortunate, but his kit just wasn't up to the job. The mags here changed their tune a little after that and suggested that light weight kit is great when things are going well, but it had better be up to the job when everything went pear shaped, otherwise it was lethal. The whole concept that had seemed so popular, and was going to revolutionise the outdoors has just faded away since then.
 

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