Titanium that you actually use ?

[rik_uk3]

I was under the impression that the jury were still out as to the safety of Ti as a cooking surface. This and the cost is what has put me off.

Of course, we know that Alu is unsafe for cooking, but it is only so very slightly unsafe that you need to eat off it a lot for a long time to show any effect and for all intents and purposes that means it is safe for the kinds of use I put it to.

Ti does not have the 60+ years of use as a cooking surface that Alu does - we don't know the long term effects.

How is it unsafe? Your not on about the urban myth linking Aluminium to dementia are you?

Titanium is a poor conductor of heat, hence hot spots and burnt food. Stainless steel is better, Aluminium better still.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/alzheimers/webcasts/top-five-dementia-myths-debunked-transcript-2.aspx

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=99

http://www.thirdage.com/alzheimer-s/debunking-the-myth-of-aluminum-and-alzheimer-s

Plenty more links if you google.

 

[Toddy]

At this point, I'm going to chip in.


I do a lot of natural dyeing. To do so I use mordants. Mordants are usually metal salts, and without exception, in concentration they are toxic. That goes for the ones that are considered safe for domestic use too. Iron, copper and aluminium.
All three of those are necessary for healthy life, but overdo it and it's very bad news. All three are commonly used in our potable water supplies and in cooking implements, but all three will leach into food dependant upon the acidity of the food, moisture, and the heat used.

Can we just leave it at that ? I see no reason not to include Titanium in the same category.

I think we have huge concerns simply because we know that lead really does accumulate in our soft tissues and it really does cause mental health problems.
Use but don't abuse kind of thing.



The consensus seems to be that Ti is not good to cook in, but good to eat and drink from.
Okay, I can live with that

So lightweight and non stick..............how safe is non stick ? and how good is it nowadays ? I really went off the stuff years ago when the coatings were totally carp.

cheers,
M

 

[Wook]

rik I agree with you about Alu cookware being essentially safe. I was aluding to what Toddy highlighted about high levels of aluminium being dangerous which some have linked to dementia, although it is a controversial subject.

However, even if that were true using even unanodised aluminium cookware does not release anything like "high levels" of alu, so I'm reasonably confident that Alu cookware is safe. Apparently the absolute worst case scenario where you chip or scratch unanodised Alu during use will only result in a dose on a par with taking an anti-acid.

So if you like to shave pieces of your aluminium cookware into your food every day for 20 years, then it probably would be unsafe. But beyond that I have confidence in Alu.

Ti on the other hand is a fairly new cooking product. I'm not convinced we have enough data on what the long term impact would be.

As an aside, Ti is so bad at distributing heat that it frequently has an under layer of Alu to make it usable as a cooking pot. So I doubt the weight savings are even that much. All you get is a high price tag and a "space age" cool factor.

 

[demographic]

I have a Light My Fire titanium spork that a mate bought me after a couple of the placky ones snapped, err its a lot better than the placky ones cos it hasn't snapped yet.

I thought the thing about aluminium having causal links to alzheimer's has been comprehensively de-bunked now? Seem to remember reading something in New Scientist about the studies that suggested it being statistically flawed a while ago.

 

[Wook]

From what I understand high levels of aluminium have without a doubt been found in the brains of some people with alzheimers, but that all attempts to assign a causal role to the presence in aluminium in the development of alzheimers have failed.

Still having loads of aluminium in your body doesn't sound like a good idea regardless. But from what I've read there is no way those sorts of levels could be reached from using aluminium cookware.

 

[rik_uk3]

Well said Wook, there is a 'type' of aluminium in some brains afflicted with dementia, read the links I put up and its explained better than I can.

Over the years I've asked several psychiatrists about this, not one of them thought there was any connection, in fact one of them ( a family friend) looked at me and said "Richard, are you taking the P***" He's usually more professional but we'd consumed vast quantities of wine and I'd given him a resounding thrashing at backgammon that night.

 

[hobbes]

Yes, I believe the aluminium cookware scare went the same way as the GM potato scare: one study grabbed by the media to sell newspapers, regardless of what all the other scientists were saying.

Mind you, I smoke, so pollutants in my food, air etc are hardly high on my worry list

Oh, and lets not forget the universal truth that we're exactly 1.84 gazzilion times more likely to die in our cars on the way to the trailhead than from our camp cookware... or snakes... or cows... or ticks... or....

Personally, I don't think gram-shaving gear is always space-age fad. There's undoubtedly a big element of that in the outdoor industry money-go-round, but the weight savings can be significant, and for me - especially in challenge walks - that's valid, and I'm glad to have spent the money on a couple of items of Ti.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

I'm glad to have spent the money on a couple of items of Ti.

Or you could have had a hair cut, wee, toe nail trim and cut all of the labels out of your clothes

 

[Wook]

With several wars going on around the world, Ti is really expensive right now. It is the only material various types of military hardware can be made from, and they have first dibs on all supplies so when they start building tanks the price goes through the roof.

10 years ago you could buy titanium framed recumbent bicycles for £3000-£4000. Now you cannot buy them at all. The material became so expensive the manufacturers stopped making them. I suspect the same is true for upright bikes (although they are not my thing ).

However what has been bad for Ti has been a real boon for carbon fibre....

 

[hobbes]

Or you could have had a hair cut, wee, toe nail trim and cut all of the labels out of your clothes

Hehe, well I would if it made the same difference. Umm, haven't you got a Gram Weenie?

 

[hobbes]

With several wars going on...

Interesting!

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

Umm, haven't you got a Gram Weenie?

Ah....errrr....ahem <cough>....errrrrrrr yes . But that was after I had cleared my belly button fluff.

 

[tombear]

Apart from a MSR TI kettle, a couple of double wall Snowpeak mugs and the usual sparks and spoons I've only used Evernew non stick pots and to be honest I've never had any trouble with hot spots and burning food. It boils down to changing your technique (stirring more and not having it on the highest setting possible, slowly drifting the pan around the available space on the cooker, that sort of thing) and choice of stove. Stoves made to use with TI, such as those by Snowpeak, have burners that spread he flame more than those designed to use with aluminium.

Mind you with the hard anodised aluminium stuff out now, especially those with heat exchangers built in and the current cost of TI I wouldn't buy it again. I got mine straight from the US where the markup is less and before the price shot up.

Just my own experience over the last 14 or 15 years.

ATB

Tom

Nearly forgot
Evernew meths burner with TI Clikstand and wind shield
Emberlit UL woodstove
Leatherman TI
Vargo triad stove ( works fine if you prime it right)
Snowpeak LiteMax stove.

 

[Teepee]

The list of ti bits that I use is growing;

Msr Titan kettle
Ti pegs
Most of Dutchs' ti bits for the hammock and tarp
Leki Ti Makalu poles
Primus Omnilite Ti

They've all saved weight and offer increased strength-jobs a good un'.

 

[Gagnrad]

How is it unsafe? Your not on about the urban myth linking Aluminium to dementia are you?

I don't know that it was an "urban myth".

However, the parallels between type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer's seem more fruitful:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=alzheimers diabetes

I doubt we should be surprised at that either.


As for aluminium, it may not be a great problem unless one cooks acidic foods in it. However, the wise cook and eat from inert materials as and when possible.

EDIT.

I'll add that I've heard from a reliable (Cornell) source that there's a fairly high level of aluminium in infant formula, although there's not much concern or even awareness of that. In that case, AFAIK, all that happens is that the powder passes through a lot of piping in the factory. Surprises me, but there we are. Of course, there are better reasons to breast-feed anyway ...

 

[bikething]

I'll add that I've heard from a reliable (Cornell) source that there's a fairly high level of aluminium in infant formula, <snip> AFAIK, all that happens is that the powder passes through a lot of piping in the factory.

Every food factory I've worked in uses stainless steel for anything that will come into contact with the food/drink/whatever so I doubt the Aluminium is from the pipework