Yeah that's pretty much the conclusion.ive got a guy manufacturing me some steel for the roof structure on the house next too it.gonna get him too make me something up
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Timber garage bracing help?
- Thread starter Alreetmiowdmuka
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Yeah that's pretty much the conclusion.ive got a guy manufacturing me some steel for the roof structure on the house next too it.gonna get him too make me something up
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Thats would be the traditional solution, you see it on lots of old buildings. With big "washers" or wrought iron crosses outside to spread the load. But even then that is usually combined with straps (right angled)
I'd have insisted to keep the braces (essential part of any framed structure), but simply get a smaller up/over door, with some cladding to cover the 18 inches or 2 foot occupied by the braces. Might even be feasible to custom make an up/over dorr with matching oak cladding instead of pwessed steel?
If wrought iron was used, it would be quite easy to make them in keeping with the overall design... then there would be no need to hide them.
But then again, its having an up and over door, which isn't really in keeping with the skill and craftsmenship thats gone into the structure... crying shame really.
But then again, its having an up and over door, which isn't really in keeping with the skill and craftsmenship thats gone into the structure... crying shame really.
Diagonal longitudinal and latitudinal horizontal cross bracing in the roof over the garage space inbetween the pillars, creating a stiff structure to tie all the pillars together, and if you need a bit more two diagonal vertical bracing inbetween the side pillars.
If the roof space is needed for the garage door this may be a bit tricky, two diagonal bracings inbetween the two side pillars each end, and then put a raised beam in the roof void running underneath the roof apex that youcan cross brace to and put cross diagonals running along the inside of the roof face inbetween the struts.
Basically the above involves creating a stiff structure that can play off more diagonal bracings inbetween the vertical side bracings. I do not know much about roof structures but I know there are many weird and fantastic creations.
If the roof space is needed for the garage door this may be a bit tricky, two diagonal bracings inbetween the two side pillars each end, and then put a raised beam in the roof void running underneath the roof apex that youcan cross brace to and put cross diagonals running along the inside of the roof face inbetween the struts.
Basically the above involves creating a stiff structure that can play off more diagonal bracings inbetween the vertical side bracings. I do not know much about roof structures but I know there are many weird and fantastic creations.
You've got a nice stiff triangular structure over the door. To stiffen the joints between this triangle and the vertical posts each side of the door, the use of some heavy-duty brackets each side, both inside and outside, would help. The rigidity of the connection between the base of the vertical posts and the slab might need stiffening too to prevent movement there.
All very well and good, but when someone bumps the wall with a vehicle, or a strong wind presses it, or fat harry leans on it, its going to slide over like an MFI wardrobe unit, there little to prevent it...and without proper bracing (what is on their looks rather slender as it is) the structure will soon go out of plumb square and the up over door could start to jam up.
Shame the steel door wasnt specified at the outset, could of made the structure higher to still allow proper bracing
True. Especially seeing as there is no sill plate, end grain directly to the floor is asking for trouble from rising moisture in the future
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Just a couple of ideas off the top of my head. Sorry if these have already occurred to you and been discarded
As has been said up and over doors would be awful, but as you say, the customers is always right, even when they're wrong. Excellent workmanship a very impressive traditional build.
I've just finished building an oak porch using 5" x 5" posts and 6 x 4 sole plates. Really pleased with the end result (see pic further below). Of course the swaying wasn't an issue with the secondary posts at the front. Half lap joints with the posts tenoned through a mortise that's through the half lap. The whole thing doweled afterwards and it all locked together. Glazing to follow next month.
Good luck on the build you're doing. I am very impressed with your work I have to say.
As has been said up and over doors would be awful, but as you say, the customers is always right, even when they're wrong. Excellent workmanship a very impressive traditional build.
I've just finished building an oak porch using 5" x 5" posts and 6 x 4 sole plates. Really pleased with the end result (see pic further below). Of course the swaying wasn't an issue with the secondary posts at the front. Half lap joints with the posts tenoned through a mortise that's through the half lap. The whole thing doweled afterwards and it all locked together. Glazing to follow next month.
Good luck on the build you're doing. I am very impressed with your work I have to say.
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Just a couple of ideas off the top of my head. Sorry if these have already occurred to you and been discarded
As has been said up and over doors would be awful, but as you say, the customers is always right, even when they're wrong. Excellent workmanship a very impressive traditional build.
I've just finished building an oak porch using 5" x 5" posts and 6 x 4 sole plates. Really pleased with the end result (see pic further below). Of course the swaying wasn't an issue with the secondary posts at the front. Half lap joints with the posts tenoned through a mortise that's through the half lap. The whole thing doweled afterwards and it all locked together. Glazing to follow next month.
Good luck on the build you're doing. I am very impressed with your work I have to say.
Thanks biker.thats pretty much what I'm gonna do were you've marked the red right right angles I'm gonna get some right angled corner bracket fabricated up and bolt them on.crosslandkelly gave me the idea so won't claim it as my own.also gonna get some steel crosses made and bolt them on we're the up right posts meat the head similar too the old fashioned gable ties you see in old mills etc. that porch looks sweet mate yer not short on skills yourself
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Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Thinking about it, the cable method would only marginally stiffen up the joint. Sorry, was just banging some alternate "Why not try..." ideas about.
The plywood cleat method would be the very best in my opinion and you could go a lot better than just an L shape if you went up into the gable end part. Even fit a rectangle piece of ply spanning the corner and just saw out the excess covering the door opening. Just a thought.
The plywood cleat method would be the very best in my opinion and you could go a lot better than just an L shape if you went up into the gable end part. Even fit a rectangle piece of ply spanning the corner and just saw out the excess covering the door opening. Just a thought.
Yep these are my concerns.not worried about rising dam though theirs damp proof membrane under the slab,under the dwarf wall and under each post
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Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Thanks! Carpenter by trade, loving every minute of it doing jobs like this, sorta makes it more of a pleasure than calling it work and I get paid! Win win. Built a handmade oak and pine kitchen for the same people last year, I think it's the best work I have ever done in my entire 35 year career.
Good that my "son" (sorta adopted him here at BCUK) was able to help you with the metal L brackets suggestion, that would really do the job. Me one proud Daddy
(wipes away a single tear)
I was thinking the same thing. It'd do really well if you could take it to diagonal corners but obviously that's block the doorway.
Thinking about it, the cable method would only marginally stiffen up the joint. Sorry, was just banging some alternate "Why not try..." ideas about.
The plywood cleat method would be the very best in my opinion and you could go a lot better than just an L shape if you went up into the gable end part. Even fit a rectangle piece of ply spanning the corner and just saw out the excess covering the door opening. Just a thought.
Keep them coming mate that's exactly why I posted it up on here.i needed someone bounce ideas off.i have studded out the inside of the gable and fixed ply.ive also fixed ply on the whole roof on top of the spars.
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Thanks! Carpenter by trade, loving every minute of it doing jobs like this, sorta makes it more of a pleasure than calling it work and I get paid! Win win. Built a handmade oak and pine kitchen for the same people last year, I think it's the best work I have ever done in my entire 35 year career.
Good that my "son" (sorta adopted him here at BCUK) was able to help you with the metal L brackets suggestion, that would really do the job. Me one proud Daddy
Sssshhhhh! Don't tell him.yer know joiners are like you'll never hear last of it.ive been at it twenty odd years myself.
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Biker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Thankfully he's not a joiner, in fact I would go as far as to say he has aspirations of becoming a reasonable wood butcherer. You can't cure him of it, but you can numb it with a hefty swing of some 4x2.
Shame we can't tag people here, then maybe it's just as well LOL! I'll be camping at the Moot near him in 2 weeks time!
Thinking about it, the cable method would only marginally stiffen up the joint. Sorry, was just banging some alternate "Why not try..." ideas about.
The plywood cleat method would be the very best in my opinion and you could go a lot better than just an L shape if you went up into the gable end part. Even fit a rectangle piece of ply spanning the corner and just saw out the excess covering the door opening. Just a thought.
Thing is from side to side the roof section is as stiff as its ever going to be, there are 3 triangular trusses effectively and efficiently arranged as per the photos. I dont see adding anything to that part of the structure as necessary. The ply roof cladding is a good addition
The issue is the triangular top section and its connection to the box bottom section. If it drops out of plumb (certain to happen without proper structural bracing), the entire roof section will stay rigid, but the vertical posts will slant as per an mfi wardrobe. The extreme scenario is all 6 posts horizontal on the ground with the perfectly rigid and intact roof section laid on top of it. The braces stop that tendency.
Braces are a nuisance in houses, barns etc, just like modern stick trusses in roof spaces-restrict space and headroom etc-but are essential. I seen a barn here in Suffolk which was in a bad way because someone removed the braces so they could get their machinery inside.
If I was to put any strapwork, I would use precision cut steel with stainless fixings, not plywood. Maybe even consider routing out a L shaped housing so the steel lies flush, then dress it with thin oak cladding boards so you dont see the steel?? Housed joints by their nature automatically become stronger and more efficient
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