Think you can handle a knife?

[Whittler Kev]

I've just been sent an email about a sport called Bladesports UK.
You can get certified to be a competent knife user (apparently Longstrider on British Blades is the only UK Blade certification instructor in the UK)
Below is a couple of extracts copied from Longstrider's post on British Blades

"BladeSports Certification is not a serious task. It simply involves learning to use an appropriate knife SAFELY for a variety of the type of cuts you'll be making in a competition. It doesn't matter for the purposes of Certification whether or not you can make those cuts successfully, you just have to show a BladeSports Certification Instructor that you can attempt them in a manner that is safe for both you and those around you.
When I take folks for their Certification I also like to include a bit of a talk about knife design, edge geometry and the most effective way to approach the various types of cut as well as making sure that we all go home the same shape as we were on arrival

"


"Knife specs are available for all to read on www.bladesports.org but basically they boil down to....
Blade no longer than 10" from point to handle (or guard if fitted)
Blade no wider than 2" at any point.
Knife to be no more than 15" overall length.
All knives must be fitted with a lanyard for safety
Cutting edge must be smooth and continuous (NO serrated edges allowed)
No holes in blade forward of the handle.
No bulges or swells in the blade and no added weights to the blade.
NO restriction on thickness of blade or weight of knife.

If you are panning on making a dedicated competition cutter, make sure to check out ALL the specs on the website before you start to avoid making a knife that will not be allowed in an official competition.

Some of the cuts that you might find a selection of at a typical BladeSports competition in the UK are...

2x4 (Vertical or horizontal)
Water-filled bottles.
Small plastic bottles to be cut from top to bottom
Rolling golf balls
Free-hanging ropes
Section of heavy cardboard tube
Cutting 'rings' from cardboard postal tube
Cutting the top section of a flexible drinking straw.
Splitting a drinking straw along it's length
Cutting a section clean out of a hanging loop of 1" thick rope
Cutting through a 1" hardwood dowel, straight across the grain
Cutting empty (or water-filled) drinks cans (horizontally or vertically)
Jelly baby on a stick (Si's favourite

)

The variations and additions to these examples are almost endless, but this should give some idea of the types of cutting challenges a competition can involve."

Got to say I wouldn't mind having a go, or going to one of the UK comps.

Have a look at this youtube vid

Through a 4x2 baton in 1.21 seconds :yikes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4aOOabZ0Vw

and World completions at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-DEkMMRX0

and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-DEkMMRX0

and last years world championships (new stuff bieng chopped)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4Zl001ITY&feature=player_embedded

 

[ged]

That looks insanely dangerous. There doesn't seem to be any protection for the spectators in case one of the competitors lets go of his blade. I would want to see at least a chicken wire mesh between the swinging blade and the onlookers. Who is organizing these events?

 

[sam_acw]

The rules usually force competitors to use lanyards of a certain size.

 

[Matt.S]

That looks insanely dangerous. There doesn't seem to be any protection for the spectators in case one of the competitors lets go of his blade. I would want to see at least a chicken wire mesh between the swinging blade and the onlookers. Who is organizing these events?

No-one is forcing them to attend.

 

[ged]

The rules usually force competitors to use lanyards of a certain size.

I'm afraid I'm completely unconvinced by the idea that a lanyard might offer sufficient protection. If the competitor can get his hand in it, then it can also slip back over the hand. It might have been strong enough, and securely fastened, when it was made, but has each one been inspected and tested by the competition organizers immediately before use? And those blades are being treated about as severely as you'll see any blade ever treated. Has no blade ever broken?

The consequences of a blade as sharp and as heavy as those flying into a crowd of people don't bear thinking about. If I sat in the front row I would not feel safe. The whole thing looks to me like a terrible accident waiting to happen.

 

[Whittler Kev]

All knifes have to have a landy worn around the wrist, behind the tang incase the blade slips, breaks etc

 

[ged]

No-one is forcing them to attend.

I'll pretend I didn't see that.

 

[robin wood]

snigger

 

[Toddy]

Y'know, the number of good knives that must exclude.............
Besides, who the hang would want to abuse a knife like that ? Just for speed ?........and it's supposed to be safe ?

Hmmm.

Toddy

 

[Shewie]

I thought that guy in the shirt and tie was going to take for ever, soon bashed through them though.

Not for me but good to watch (from the safety of behind my screen)

 

[Graham_S]

The knives are made specifically for this type of competition.
It's quite popular in the US, and I've never heard of an accident occurring.
If the lanyard is correctly applied (as is required to compete) then there is no chance of the blade being released into the crowd.

The regs are taken from the (highly litigious) USA. If it was dangerous, it'd not be allowed.

 

[Mesquite]

I thought that guy in the shirt and tie was going to take for ever, soon bashed through them though.

I thought the same. When he went into action it was if he'd been put on speed

 

[ged]

... The regs are taken from the (highly litigious) USA. If it was dangerous, it'd not be allowed.

Like drilling for oil.

 

[Retired Member southey]

my only thoughts are that it seems a good way for a blade maker to expo his/her blade makeing/sharpening skills. As far as the safety aspect goes, I feel the same as Matt.S if you go to see a knife event where the main activity is very heavy chopping and frenetic use of very sharp and heavy blades on you own head be it. the organisers have chosen to make the compettitors wear lanyards, probably to limit the damage to the blades if they were to slip, that would be my main concern.

 

[sapper1]

I'd love to see how fast they can make a feather stick or carve a net needle.

 

[ged]

... I feel the same as Matt.S if you go to see a knife event where the main activity is very heavy chopping and frenetic use of very sharp and heavy blades on you own head be it.

Thank you both for the carefully reasoned risk assessments. If I did things the same way at work, and one of my employees were badly injured, then I'd be facing a prison sentence.

It is completely unacceptable to take that attitude, even in a private event and if the participants all agree with you. If members of the public are involved then things get a bit more complicated but basically much the same thought is required. By law. People have their kids with them fercryinoutloud. They are entitled to be kept safe from harm.

There must be a strong incentive for the competitors to have the sharpest blade they can get. My guess is that they're all talking to people about the heat treatment of their blades, and asking for Rockwell figures in the mid-60s to get the most competitive edge that they can. When steel is hardened just a bit too much it ceases to be the tolerant material that we're used to and starts to resemble glass. It can shatter without warning. Lanyard or no lanyard, if a crack develops and isn't noticed in time (talk to any aircraft engineer about how easy it is to spot cracks in time) then there's a distinct possibility that bits of the blade might part company with the tang. Lanyard or not, I'm scared for the people standing around in those videos.

Toddy didn't quite say what I'm thinking but I guess I'll have to say it now. It all seems a bit pointless, and the risk I perceive seems out of all proportion to what little point there is.

It's also pointless our arguing the toss on this forum, so this will be my last post on the subject here, but I'll be getting in touch with local government in Atlanta about it.

 

[Retired Member southey]

I'm guessing that the competitors are not only looking for sharpness but allso edge holding abillity from there blades. wouldn't this mean a relativly standard hardness , I fully under stand what your saying ref fracture lines(I am an aircraft engineer on rotory aircraft), but the time but spent sharpening and maintaining the edges would probably involve alot of examination to ensure an even cutting edge.

 

[dave53]

i saw one of those demos at the knife show, nice blades but imho these blades are designed for the job,looking at them up close and personel they look ok as for danger to the public there is always danger no matter what sport it is you can only manage it to the best of your ability regards dave

 

[Mojoracinguk]

I loved watching the axe racing on the box a few years ago, and this thread reminded me of that.

Check out this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm9hY9Oh8jA&feature=related

I mean lanyards a positivley not used as the competitors have to ditch the axes to place boards.

This video is particularly bad from a hse point of view.....but I'm not here for that....as the one i saw were organised a little better IMO. still the competitors are ar risk no matter what (check out 3:37)

but i do like the compertion side of it. The axe racing was more about physical fitness (lots of running/climbing then using axe/chainsaw) these knife compertitions do seem to be more focused on blade & edge durabillity (heavy chopping followed by fine slicing).


I think i'd stick to the axes though as there is a wider variety of tools being used (Large/small axe, throwing axe, log handling equipment, chainsaws) Where as this competition looked like a single style of blade, still very well made and thought through tools but so similar I think they may as well just sell 'control' blanks to the competitors (like control tyres in motorsport) so the only contributing factores are final grind given by the competitor and their indurance.

I still find it impressive though....do you reckon they use differential tempers to get round the blade fatuiging/fracturing....I do.

Mojo

 

[Matt.S]

Thank you both for the carefully reasoned risk assessments. If I did things the same way at work, and one of my employees were badly injured, then I'd be facing a prison sentence.

It is completely unacceptable to take that attitude, even in a private event and if the participants all agree with you. If members of the public are involved then things get a bit more complicated but basically much the same thought is required. By law. People have their kids with them fercryinoutloud. They are entitled to be kept safe from harm.

You might have a point regarding the kids if the specators are actually at as much risk as you perceive, but that is almost as far as I agree with you on this issue. You are of course correct with regard to the law and H&S in this country, but who are you to tell other adults what is acceptable and isn't, if they're putting themselves at risk?

There must be a strong incentive for the competitors to have the sharpest blade they can get. My guess is that they're all talking to people about the heat treatment of their blades, and asking for Rockwell figures in the mid-60s to get the most competitive edge that they can. When steel is hardened just a bit too much it ceases to be the tolerant material that we're used to and starts to resemble glass. It can shatter without warning. Lanyard or no lanyard, if a crack develops and isn't noticed in time (talk to any aircraft engineer about how easy it is to spot cracks in time) then there's a distinct possibility that bits of the blade might part company with the tang. Lanyard or not, I'm scared for the people standing around in those videos.

Never assume.

It all seems a bit pointless, and the risk I perceive seems out of all proportion to what little point there is.

Good for you.

It's also pointless our arguing the toss on this forum, so this will be my last post on the subject here, but I'll be getting in touch with local government in Atlanta about it.

Thank goodness we have crucial safety watchmen such as you. Go forth and ban conkers!