The Scottish Dialect

[santaman2000]

.....In regard to Southern American accents, however, I suspect they developed by sometime in the 18th century. Supposedly George Washington had a Southern accent. My wife is descended from, among other, the last owner of Mt. Vernon and is naturally much interested in Washington family history.....

To be perfectly honest, I really don't know, The post I made about it being relatively new is based entirely on the History Channel's documentary. That said, whether it's recent or older doesn't really matter in regards the point that I still believe accents are constantly evolving.

 

[santaman2000]

Clearly it is difficult to get across the sound of an accent in print. The pronunciation of "dog" that I was referring to rhymes with "rogue." It wasn't "dawg." ......

I've never heard that one? And I grew up in the south and have lived in various different regions of the south most of my life. Where-a-bouts is it? You said you're in West Virginia? I confess I've never yet been there.

 

[santaman2000]

.....In any case, you know you're hearing a Southern accent when "yes" is pronounced with two syllables as is "Coca-Cola," and tea is usually "iced" (which of course is pronounced "ice tea").......

LOL. Absolutely true about the Coca-Cola (although within a few hundred miles of Biloxi the preferred non-alcoholic drink is Barqs Root Beer) and iced tea; but the Ye-as is way, way limited in it's geographical distribution.

 

[Harvestman]

On the subject of South African accents, I remember reading somewhere that researchers at the University of Durban had found the long-lost missing South African vowels, hidden in an ancient vault.

A spokesman described the find as "Fintistic!"

 

[crosslandkelly]

On the subject of South African accents, I remember reading somewhere that researchers at the University of Durban had found the long-lost missing South African vowels, hidden in an ancient vault.

A spokesman described the find as "Fintistic!"

 

[BlueTrain]

Sometimes it is a little surprising to discover that people on the other side of town (or the other side of the tracks, as people used to say) speak a little differently. Maybe a little better or a little worse but the interesting thing is that it's different, if only a little. I'm not sure that accents have become more homoginized at all because of influences of television or the movies but that doesn't mean they aren't changing. New words come along all the time. Some invented and some adopted (borrowed, they say) from other languages, while other words become old-fashioned and go out of use. And then there's spelling.

French, Spanish and Portuguese are still spoken in the new world and have probably evolved to become "American." Some groups here and there still speak German and because the numbers are low and because the immigrants came a long time ago, the German still used here is probably quite different from the German spoken in the same place in Germany where most of them came from now. But it's surprising that any German is still used here at all. Supposedly the Declaration of Independence was published first in German (betcha didn't know that!) but only because the printer in Philadelphia that printed the first broadsides was German.

I guess English has evolved to become "American," too, come to think of it.

 

[santaman2000]

.....New words come along all the time. Some invented and some adopted (borrowed, they say) from other languages, while other words become old-fashioned and go out of use.....

Yep. It's been a coon's age since I heard anybody say, "I'll swannee."

 

[santaman2000]

......French, Spanish and Portuguese are still spoken in the new world and have probably evolved to become "American." .....

Daddy commented how when he used the Spanish he learned in Panama, he wasn't understood in Mexico.

That aside, most Spanish speakers phrase something like "lake house" as "Casa del lago" (literally, "house of the lake") Whereas in Puerto Rico it would be phrased as, "lago casa" (literally, "lake house") in the same manner as it would be in American or English.

 

[Goatboy]

I guess English has evolved to become "American," too, come to think of it.

In a lot of ways American English is actually nearer to old English in terms of structure and phraseology. Some of the more "snobby" Brits who look down on a lot of Americanisms are not realising that we spoke more like the US in the 16/17th century. (The spelling was just bloody-mindedness on the US part as part of Independence! Some great literature and depth of meaning in the US which again is overlooked here in the UK.

 

[BlueTrain]

My, my, what an interesting thread. Lively, too.

The curious pronunciation of dog that I referred to was from a man who happened to be a commercial fisherman who lived on the Northern Neck of Virginia, which is the land between the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers. That happens to be near where my earliest ancestors arrived in the new world sometime around 1650 in Lancaster County. I have no idea where the name came from. Anyway, there are claims that traces of Elizabethean (or more likely, Jacobean) English persists on coastal islands and particularly in Chesapeake but like I say, how could anyone know that?

 

[santaman2000]

......(The spelling was just bloody-mindedness on the US part as part of Independence!......

Yeah, that was originally true. In his original American dictionary, Noah Webster did indeed change the spelling of many words to deliberately "Americanize" them, although he seems to have done so with an eye to phonetics. But since then, spelling's continued to evolve aside from such influence (the comment I made earlier about the spelling of "dawg" isn't quite mainstream yet, b ut very close, and mat be so some day)

 

[Toddy]

I think there are two major parameters to the speech we use though. The vocabulary and the grammar structure are one and the accent, how we actually form and pronounce and express that vocabulary and grammar, is the other.

I can make myself clearly understood in plain English, but I can't remove my accent from the speech that I use. I am quietly spoken, and that's another hurdle though.

The forum is a different thing entirely.
I deliberately use emoticons to give more information to the written word, even though I am aware that some find those lazy or somehow effeminate. I am not lazy and I am feminine but I do like the extra information that they display to written text.
Frankly, I think those who complain and belittle are doing a classic, Bah! Humbug!.

THOaken started the thead calling it Scottish dialect. The older I become the more I realise that it's not a dialect, it's an entire language.

Ah hiner Ah durnae confuse fowk, bit ony steid rake foonerts n sassenach isnae ma leid.

There's a very good article on the difficulties inherant in translation from Scottish, not only to English, but to French too, simply because of the cultural references that are part and parcel of everyday speech.

http://www.ijsl.stir.ac.uk/issue7/berton.htm

An interesting topic right enough

cheers,
M

 

[VANDEEN]

Having spent many childhood holidays in the Dumfries and Galloway are I always wondered how the conversation would go between two men, one named Ken. Where by the other introduces his mate to a guy they meet on the street, Keneth, who's the husband of a girl called Katie from Kendoon.

I imagined it would be something along the lines of..

Ach Ken, duyu ken Keneth?
Nar a dinnie think sae?
Pleest tae meet ya Keneth
Aye & you too
Acht ye mist ken Keneth Ken, it's Katie's man, Katie from Kendoon's man, ye ken Katie dnt ye Ken?

 

[BlueTrain]

As it happens, my real name is Kenneth and I have a daughter named Katie. And as it happens, she lives in Germany, not far from Trier.

 

[VANDEEN]

As it happens, my real name is Kenneth and I have a daughter named Katie. And as it happens, she lives in Germany, not far from Trier.

Can't be you then . Do you speak with a Galloway accent though?

 

[BlueTrain]

Ah, hello there! I've been away. Time to take up the thread again.

I am an American and am said to have a "Southern Highland" accent (sometimes), but that means "Southern Applachian," nothing to do with Scotland. It used to be called "Hillbilly," which I now understand to be rather widely used to mean a country bumpkin, sort of. There was a nightclub singer named Dorothy Shay, I believe it was, who billed herself as the "Park Avenue Hillbilly." Park Avenue is a chic New York street. Anyway, the rest of the time I try not to have an accent, if I can help it.

My grandmother, who was born in 1876, used to say "I swan," but I'm not quite sure what she meant when she said it. There are a host of words and expressions that were and still are used as intensifiers, I guess, something like the way "Well," is frequently used at the beginning of a sentance in informal conversation.

Sometimes old (say, before 1960) movies will have a lot of words and phrases no longer used. Probably the easiest to catch is "swell." I never hear anyone say that. I suppose it happens in other languages, too, even to include lowland Scots.

 

[Lister]

Couldn't help meself

 

[The Survivor]

My grandmother, who was born in 1876, used to say "I swan," but I'm not quite sure what she meant when she said it. There are a host of words and expressions that were and still are used as intensifiers, I guess, something like the way "Well," is frequently used at the beginning of a sentance in informal conversation.

Wow, I am really late this time, but I thought that I would add my tupence worth. The term "I swan" was used alot in the mining areas, as miners thought it was wrong/unlucky to say "I swear" in the mines.

 

[Uilleachan]

I remember being told off in school for saying "smashin", it's "Smashing" said the new teacher. As everybody knows it's not english and is scots and irish gaelic for; great that (thats great), sma sin, So, for once the Weegies actually have the correct pronunciation, "smashin"