The Rise and Fall of the Plastic Bag

[Balloonatic]

I'm fiercely against do-gooder nannyism - for things that should be a personal choice. Crash-helmets, seatbelts, drinking, smoking, drugs even - I disagree hugely with legal punishments, punative taxes or prohibition.

Litter affects everyone, utilizing a tax/charge technique shown to cause improvement, without major disruption or hardship to people, I'm all in favour.

I agree with your point ONLY if people injured whilst not wearing helmets/seatbelts are not treated on the NHS. Otherwise it does impact on others.

 

[wingstoo]

I'm fiercely against do-gooder nannyism - for things that should be a personal choice. Crash-helmets, seatbelts, drinking, smoking, drugs even - I disagree hugely with legal punishments, punative taxes or prohibition.

Litter affects everyone, utilizing a tax/charge technique shown to cause improvement, without major disruption or hardship to people, I'm all in favour.

I agree with your point ONLY if people injured whilst not wearing helmets/seatbelts are not treated on the NHS. Otherwise it does impact on others.

Just sweep them to the side of the road and leave them for their families to collect and treat when they have time or inclination.

 

[rik_uk3]

I agree with your point ONLY if people injured whilst not wearing helmets/seatbelts are not treated on the NHS. Otherwise it does impact on others.

I worked with one consultant who referred to those not wearing helmets or seatbelts as 'organ donors', I'd add to that list people using mobile phones in cars.

 

[Paul_B]

Isn't the problem these bags don't stay intact but break down into smaller pieces which in the sea gets mistaken by some marine life for jellyfish causing serious problems for them like death?
every plastic bag I've used for a long time ends up brittle and in pieces. I once tidied up a storage areaand found stuff I'd stored in a Waterstones bag. it had been stored under a bed (no uv light reached it once stored). That bag fell apart like confetti. Why? Some on here are saying they stay intact but I've never noticed that?
most bags are PE I believe. I know my kayak is also PE and it was always recommended to store out of daylight to stop degradation of the plastic. Wonder why one PE product degrades the other stays intact?

 

[mountainm]

Drug use and to some degree alcohol use (misuse) also have a big negative impact on society. The effects of which are unfortunately not confined to the individual. Smoking less so if you can negate the effects of passive smoking. Think of kids of alcoholic parents. Drug addicts mugging and breaking into houses. Even the clean up costs after a Friday night (hence this idea for so called drink tanks.)

 

[British Red]

Alcohol actually causes far more problems in society than hard drugs, guns and shopping bags combined. Look up the stats for how much crime (particularly violent crime) has an alcohol component. It is the largest single common factor involved in crime in the UK. So if people really want to "fix" society, banning alcohol (for everyone) makes more logical sense than charging for carrier bags. But lets not confuse feel good policies with actually making a difference?

Oh radio four informed us today that

A 2011 UK Government comparative study of supermarket bags shows, for example, that a cotton reusable bag must be reused 131 times to match the lower environmental impact of a conventional plastic shopping bag used just once.

http://www.allaboutbags.ca/reusablesgreenerrmyth.html



As a matter of interest of Environment Agency record, average re-use is 51 times

A study commissioned by the United Kingdom Environment Agency in 2005 but never published found that the average cotton bag is used only 51 times before being thrown away

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_shopping_bag

This means that government studies have proven that re-usable cotton bags are two to three times worse for the environment than disposable carrier bags. Still - nothing wrong with a bit of greenwash to justify some petty meddling is there?

 

[mountainm]

Alcohol actually causes far more problems in society than hard drugs, guns and shopping bags combined. Look up the stats for how much crime (particularly violent crime) has an alcohol component. It is the largest single common factor involved in crime in the UK. So if people really want to "fix" society, banning alcohol (for everyone) makes more logical sense than charging for carrier bags. But lets not confuse feel good policies with actually making a difference?

Oh radio four informed us today that



http://www.allaboutbags.ca/reusablesgreenerrmyth.html



As a matter of interest of Environment Agency record, average re-use is 51 times



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_shopping_bag

This means that government studies have proven that re-usable cotton bags are two to three times worse for the environment than disposable carrier bags. Still - nothing wrong with a bit of greenwash to justify some petty meddling is there?

Which is exactly why we should be using baskets.

 

[British Red]

Ahh yes...group therapy I assume

 

[mountainm]

Ahh yes...group therapy I assume

Already you spot the hidden benefits...

 

[British Red]

In more ways than one


Strawberries by British Red, on Flickr


25 pounds of bullaces by British Red, on Flickr

 

[mountainm]

Baskets for life....

 

[British Red]

Lets face it - its better for some things to breathe

Nothing worse than sweaty plums!

 

[mountainm]

Lets face it - its better for some things to breathe

Nothing worse than sweaty plums!

Or damp nuts for that matter....

 

[British Red]

Have we ridiculed the thread enough yet?

 

[mountainm]

Have we ridiculed the thread enough yet?

Could go on but....

 

[British Red]

Yep - Nanny knows best about bags (even when she doesn't )

 

[santaman2000]

Isn't the problem these bags don't stay intact but break down into smaller pieces which in the sea gets mistaken by some marine life for jellyfish causing serious problems for them like death?
every plastic bag I've used for a long time ends up brittle and in pieces......

Being mistaken for jellyfish is what I meant by "choke a fish." But no, they don't "bio" degrade; only "photo" degrade. Although I believe there's an effort afoot to make some that are biodegradable. That might be a good thing if they don't leech pollutants in so doing.

 

[Turnstone]

THey do that in Germany - so long as you've a receipt for the drink. Was at an away game in Stuttgart where the local tramps had a field day, standing outside the supermarkets collecting the receipts off the football fans, then filling trolleys with the empties from the big party in the town square. Was nice that once the footy fans realised they kept the reciepts for the tramps & started putting the empties back into shopping trolleys for the tramps to return them.

You don't need the receipt. You pay 25 ct extra if you buy a drink in a can (or PET bottle) and get it back when you return it. But you don't need a proof that you bought it. Just collect the aluminium cans (and bottles) and take it to the next supermarket. They have to have a certain symbol on them to get money, so it won't work if you bring your cans from abroad. But many people just don't care about the money and throw the cans and bottles away. Good for people like tramps and all others who don't feel ashamed to pick them up and get some money out of it!

 

[Rod Paradise]

You don't need the receipt. You pay 25 ct extra if you buy a drink in a can (or PET bottle) and get it back when you return it. But you don't need a proof that you bought it. Just collect the aluminium cans (and bottles) and take it to the next supermarket. They have to have a certain symbol on them to get money, so it won't work if you bring your cans from abroad. But many people just don't care about the money and throw the cans and bottles away. Good for people like tramps and all others who don't feel ashamed to pick them up and get some money out of it!

Did you used to need the reciept? The tramps were standing there collecting them as we left the supermarkets (till we emptied them of everything but non-alcoholic lager) - this was about 10 years ago mind you.

 

[daveO]

Oh radio four informed us today that



http://www.allaboutbags.ca/reusablesgreenerrmyth.html



As a matter of interest of Environment Agency record, average re-use is 51 times



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_shopping_bag

This means that government studies have proven that re-usable cotton bags are two to three times worse for the environment than disposable carrier bags. Still - nothing wrong with a bit of greenwash to justify some petty meddling is there?

2012 ©. Content compiled by the Canadian Plastics Industry Association