The K-Mart Challenge

[BlueTrain]

This post is inspired by a magazine article many years ago on this very topic, sort of, and by the thread about the Daniel Boone challenge. I only mean it to be a subject for a little discussion.

One of the things I realized when I read over equipment lists, particularly ones that are survivalist oriented and especially the ones from commercial sites, is the frequent mention of brand names, often ones that are expensive. Mind you, I like nice things as much as the next guy, even expensive things, expensive being relative. A lot of things I buy my relatives would say are expensive. But someone in a magazine article decided to see if he could have a comfortable backpacking weekend using things from K-Mart, which is an American big box discount retailer, like Wal-Mart, or from any discount source rather than an outdoor store or mountain shop.

The closest I've come to doing anything like that was to buy a tent from K-Mart once and actually used. It was what I would describe as a one and a half person tent but it was not bad. I bought it as an experiment just to see if it was worth it, it being very inexpensive. I doubt it would hold up for many outings but for the cost it was okay. I have plenty of other things, mostly inexpensive or surplus, so mostly I'm somewhere in the middle with regards to cost. With some things, you know, like knives, the sky's the limit when it comes to prices. But why use a $20 knife when you can have one that costs $200?

Have other people ever wondered about things like this?

 

[santaman2000]

For translation purposes, the UK equivalent to K-mart is Tesco.

Much of my gear is from walmart, Sears,and even some older stuff from Montgomery Ward's. Most of tt's every bit as good as the big name brands. Not all, but most.

 

[John Fenna]

Why buy stuff?
I can go out for a weekend with just stuff I have made - from shoes to tarp...
OK - canvas etc was bought in hardwear shops and leather from a specialist shop ... but buy from Tesco - not if I can help it! I hate the place!

 

[rik_uk3]

For translation purposes, the UK equivalent to K-mart is Tesco.

Much of my gear is from walmart, Sears,and even some older stuff from Montgomery Ward's. Most of tt's every bit as good as the big name brands. Not all, but most.

Walmart own the UK chain Asda.

Many of us look at places like the Pound shop, B&M, Poundstretcher, Tesco, Asda et al and you can get some bargains. Just remember three words "Fit For Purpose" and make sure its up to your needs.

Last year I pitched a £6/$9 Tesco dome tent in my daughters garden for the grandson to play in, its stayed pitched and dry for three months; so in the shelter of a British woodland it would be fine but no good on the Brecon Beacons. My kit goes from Berghaus Goretex to army Goretex, Golite tent to the £6 dome tent, £100+ multifuel stove to £5 gas cartridge stove. Match your kit to your needs.

 

[crosslandkelly]

I think it all comes down to what you want from your kit. If you are bushcrafting for a living, then it will make sense to have the best tools of the trade, just like any other tradesman. If, I suspect like many, you bushcraft as a hobby, ie weekends, once a month, or for holidays then the cheap options make sense. A £4 Hultafors knife is far more usable than a £200 drawer queen. Imho.

 

[Tony]

The comparison of K-mart to tesco is fine for food, toiletries etc but k-marts, wal-marts etcgenerally have a huge range of outdoor kit, camping, knives, guns, bows, fishing, outdoor clothing, serious tools, smallholding goods etc I'd much rather fancy my chances with a huge range of own brand k'mart stuff than the limited range from tesco.

You're right Rik, fit for propose and sometimes we need to compromise on what we're going to do with the kit so we don't take it out of it's purpose, saying that so much kit can be used for other things

When ti comes to knives and the like a £200 knife will usually outlast a £20 knife so if there's only one knife to be had and relied on for survival i'd rather have the £200 one, but for the most part my mora does what my woodlore does, although it's not likely to last as long, I think that's the same for nearly everything we use as long as the cost goes into the quality of the item rather than the name of the manufacturer...

 

[BlueTrain]

Well, this isn't going too badly for an off-the-wall question. Obviously, the question is about how much money you're willing to part with for what you'd like to take with you to the woods, either for a weekend or a month, and what you expect to be doing while you're there. Some don't have a lot of cash to spend and for others, money is no object, as the saying goes. If the outing is simple recreation, it's a matter of disposable income, not survival. If you're engaged in a month long tramp from point A to Point Z, then you'll probably warrant better gear, even if it's still a case of a recreational outing. I didn't know anyone "bushcrafted" for a living, although I knew people who used wood-burning stoves in their kitchen and believe me, they didn't use expensive axes. And I wonder if a $200 custom knife is going to outlast a $20 Mora. Perhaps our estimation of the quality of a product is unconsciously tied to the price.

But of course, it all depends on what you're going to do with it. K-Mart and Wal-Mart do not sell Mora knives, so in a way, it's a moot point. I wouldn't wear any shoes or boots from a discount store for a long hike, although I suspect they might do just fine, at least for a short hike. I don't think any discount store stocks a half-way decent backpack suitable for a weekend outing. There are other areas where the "serious" backpacker/camper/hiker/bushcrafter will not find anything suitable at K-Mart and one is sleeping bags. This means a sleeping bag to use outside, not something for a sleepover at a friend's house or in a summer cottage.

I think in the original magazine article, the man who chose to use the cheap stuff that was actually purchased at a discount store managed pretty much okay but he got sick from drinking bad water.

 

[santaman2000]

.....But of course, it all depends on what you're going to do with it. K-Mart and Wal-Mart do not sell Mora knives, so in a way, it's a moot point. I wouldn't wear any shoes or boots from a discount store for a long hike, although I suspect they might do just fine, at least for a short hike. I don't think any discount store stocks a half-way decent backpack suitable for a weekend outing. There are other areas where the "serious" backpacker/camper/hiker/bushcrafter will not find anything suitable at K-Mart and one is sleeping bags. This means a sleeping bag to use outside, not something for a sleepover at a friend's house or in a summer cottage.....

Good boots are one item I generally draw the line at. Don't think I'd trust most from Walmart or K-Mart (though Sears does carry Woolverines)

As for the sleeping bag, until the last year, most of my sleeping bags have all been Coleman or another cheap brand from the discount stores. Even now, my best bag is a military surplus sleep system. Never had any problems there.

 

[BlueTrain]

I went into the local K-Mart just a little while ago to see what they actually had that might be genuinely useful for hiking and camping. It turns out, they have quite a bit but not so much for backpacking. In fact, they don't even have backpacks. They do have sleeping bags but I'd say they were more for cabins and sleepover, in spite of the advertised ratings. Most of the stuff is what you might have for family camping or car camping. The did have Swiss Army Knives (three different models) as well as a variety of Buck knives, which I think are excellent for the price. But little else, actually. They have sleeping pads, an inexpensive one or two man tent, metal mugs and plates, Scout-type mess kits, and lots of fuel, both Coleman fuel and butane gas cylinders. Many of their products are Coleman brand. Except for the mess kit, there was no cookware. Nothing was particularly expensive except for a couple of Buck knives.

Their hiking shoes didn't look too bad, actually, but I couldn't say how long they'd hold up.

That was just K-Mart. I think Wal-Mart may actually carry more products.

 

[Tony]

Ultimately, having a naff tent is better than having no tent, having cheap wellies are better than no wellies, a bic lighter or matches better than flint and steel when it comes to speed and convenience, you could walk into tesco or kmart and use all that they have and be fine, in the cold you might have to double up on the sleeping bags but i bet you could find a yard trailer that you can pull around behind you and fill that, something to keep the rain off, something to sleep in and on, some food and something to cook in, all doable for cheap, stuff that you can use regularly for years generally translates into better materials and tweaked designs and can cost substantially more and is generally less available.
I know this is taking it off track a bit but because of tescos etc I think we're producing nations of people that take being outdoors really casually, you buy a cheap tent and therefore being outdoors is obviously not a serious thing, or they'd not sell you naff kit (I know it's not always naff)

 

[BlueTrain]

I doubt any of my ancestors ever owned a tent, cheap or otherwise. I'm not certain what you're implying by saying that having cheap gear means you take being outdoors casually but I don't see it that way. Having cheap gear means you're either don't have much cash to spare or you're just plain cheap. Having expensive or very expensive gear won't change the experience very much. When you go fishing, do you suppose the fish know the difference in an expensive rod or a cheap rod from K-Mart?

If I'm spending the night in the good outdoors, I can use a plastic bowl for my gruel that costs $3.50 tops or a titanium equivalent that costs $16.95. Of course, the traditional thing to do is to bring something from the kitchen at home, if your mother will let you. When I was in grade school and junior high and went camping, the only specific camping gear that was used was a tent, which was a canvas wall tent with no floor. I guess you could call that casual. It was definatly informal. There was no stove, no packs, no knives or axes, no first-aid kits, no rain gear and fortunately, usually no rain. They were essentilally family fishing trips to the river, about fifteen miles from home, although the last five miles were very difficult. There was no bushcraft, scoutcraft, woodcraft or aircraft involved. There was watercraft, though. Messing about in homemade boats. It was a lot of fun and guaranteed not serious. We left the serious stuff at home.

 

[santaman2000]

For what most of us do, I agree with you BT. That is, for a simple overnight or weekend trip with the family.

But I imagine many people see the plethora of gear cheap gear at Walmart, K-Mart, etc. and and get the impression that it's the same sort of thing used by explorers or more serious trekkers on long, difficult expeditions far from civilization. At least that's the impression I got from Tony's post?

 

[crosslandkelly]

My cheap kit
My first tarp was a cheap plastic 8 x 10 camo jobby £5 or £6 pound off ebay, bought in 2009, I still use it as a ground sheet. Upgraded to a DD tarp in 2011.
Trangia clone cookset, £6 Lidl. Still being used.
Mora robust x 2 £20. Woodlore deal. In use nearly every day.
Pocket rocket stove, £7 TK Maxx.
Folding cup x 3 £1.50 Wilco
1 Litre US army style water bottle with cover, £4.50 Wilco.
Dutch army canteen cup, £2 ebay. Just happens to fit the water bottle.
German army arctic sleeping bag, £20. army surplus store.
Knife, fork and spoon set, and plastic plate £1 Poundland
45 ltr rucksack £15 Tescos. I've seen cheaper ones too.
Much of this kit has been updated over the years, but only as necessary.I still use a lot of the above stuff, and it's been reliable, but I wouldn't take it on an expedition, but it is good enough to get you out into the woods, moors etc.

 

[BlueTrain]

Not to take anything away from explorers in Tibet or month long trips in the Cairngorms, but a few people have walked the Applachian Trail end to end with gear from K-Mart and Wal-Mart. The first man who did a thru-hike did so with an army surplus rucksack, Red Wing work boots, and the rest from Sears and the local hardware store. And he did it twice more with the same gear, the third time when he was 80 years old. Of course, hiking the Applachian Trail is just a walk in the woods.

To prove the latter point, the first woman to thru-hike the trail, Emma Gatewood, was 67 (and did it again at 75). She used no pack and wore Keds sneakers. Those people were not particularly serious about their gear but it could be said they were serious about the outdoors and long distance hiking. To go from one end of the Applachian Trail to the other, a distance of about 2,200 miles, all you have to do is walk and keep walking. Nothing to it. It's about the distance between one end of Great Britain and the other and back again.

Seriously.

 

[santaman2000]

Not sure I'd consider Red wing work boots as "cheap gear."

 

[BlueTrain]

You are correct. Today they are trendy and expensive and K-Mart doesn't sell them. But in 1948 they were rather more ordinary, even if they were the same boots. We weren't importing Chinese footwear then. Chippewa boots, American made, are a much better buy, although I wouldn't wear either brand for a long distance hike (not that I'm planning any such hike, even though I'm only 67). For me, anything over, oh, ten or twelve miles is a long distance hike. Of course, that's just for a day's outing in half-way pleasant weather, meaning not too much snow and temperatures above twenty degrees, preferably warmer. I can't seem to find the time to do much more. I'm lucky to have a free afternoon for a two mile hike in the backwoods (the woods back of the house, that is).

Don't get the wrong idea about me, however. I love looking over the latest gear and even more, love searching for old equipment. Who else would go out and buy a tin plated mess kit and haul around a wood-framed packboard instead of a good aluminum cookset and a proper nylon and metal rucksack. And my most used boots are a pair of "boots, CWW." Gold star to whoever knows what they are.

In any event, I'm interested in "historical backpacking" as much as anything.

 

[rik_uk3]

Not to take anything away from explorers in Tibet or month long trips in the Cairngorms, but a few people have walked the Applachian Trail end to end with gear from K-Mart and Wal-Mart. The first man who did a thru-hike did so with an army surplus rucksack, Red Wing work boots, and the rest from Sears and the local hardware store. And he did it twice more with the same gear, the third time when he was 80 years old. Of course, hiking the Applachian Trail is just a walk in the woods.

To prove the latter point, the first woman to thru-hike the trail, Emma Gatewood, was 67 (and did it again at 75). She used no pack and wore Keds sneakers. Those people were not particularly serious about their gear but it could be said they were serious about the outdoors and long distance hiking. To go from one end of the Applachian Trail to the other, a distance of about 2,200 miles, all you have to do is walk and keep walking. Nothing to it. It's about the distance between one end of Great Britain and the other and back again.

Seriously.

Good points made.

I read with interest on this forum that many people on the TGO Challenge

http://www.tgochallenge.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Wore trainers or even Crocs for some or all of the walk. To be honest boots are not needed as much as they are used certainly for many weekends away in the UK. I've seen people turn up to woodland camps only a ten minute walk from their car wearing boots ranging from standard army boots to top of the range boots and they are walking around camp in the UK!!! Why, absolutely no need.

There is a need however if you want to 'conform' or meet a standard or 'uniform' seemingly required by some who are into Bushcraft. Nothing wrong in that, it fills the sort of re-enactment side of bushcraft in the UK. Look at the fantastic work done by some here who travel to colder areas such as Norway, its wonderful to see an old bit of kit still used and or modified.

 

[santaman2000]

Good points made.

I read with interest on this forum that many people on the TGO Challenge

http://www.tgochallenge.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Wore trainers or even Crocs for some or all of the walk. To be honest boots are not needed as much as they are used certainly for many weekends away in the UK. I've seen people turn up to woodland camps only a ten minute walk from their car wearing boots ranging from standard army boots to top of the range boots and they are walking around camp in the UK!!! Why, absolutely no need....

Nor is there really a need here in most places or times. I do wear them, but not so much out of the need as the fact that I've just always worn boots; ever since I was around 6 or 7 years old. Even so, I sometimes go out with just tennis shoes (what you call trainers) or beach sandals (particularly if on the river or coast)

 

[BlueTrain]

You also made some good points, both rik_uk3 and santaman. Not everyone is out for the same reason and there's no reason to look down your nose at someone if they aren't conforming to your own idea of correctness. But I suppose conformity and the desire to have others conform is human nature. If your outings consist of weekends in a nearby park or even a week long excursion along some trail on the other side of the state, you can do most anything you want, food and gear-wise and be none the worse for it. But if your making a two or three month tramp somewhere, and there seem to be a surprising number of people who manage to do so, then you will eventually get your priorities and ideas sorted out for the best by the time you've been out for six weeks or so. Either way, there shouldn't be anyone trying to tell you you're doing it all wrong. That doesn't mean no one will. There are even a few outdoor writers who are guilty of that. They are the true believers in whatever they're pushing.

One of the best of outdoor writers was Colin Fletcher and he was never like that. It makes for much more enjoyable reading, too. In fact, his writing would be enjoyable to read if he were writing about lawn mowers. Mr. Fletcher didn't even like to call it hiking. To him, walking was a good enough word.

I might also mention here that my interest in the gear, with one or two exceptions, seems to be inversely related to how often or how far I go. The more hiking--I mean, walking--I do, the less important pots, knives, clothes and so on, seem to be. I've got plenty of that kind of stuff and none of it is much better than the rest. That's the plastic bowl versus the titanium bowl story again. But there are exceptions. The first one is boots or shoes. That's where the rubber meets the road, so to say. I've been using the same pair of feet for as long as I can remember and while they're holding up pretty well, I can tell it the next day when I've been walking a long ways. But some trails are softer than others and they're just about all softer than the sidewalk. The other is the pack, which I usually have with me. Some are easy to carry and others can be a pain in the back. So there is an on-going interest in a pack that's painless, but most that I have aren't so bad. Curiously, the weight of the pack seems to make no difference in how easy it is to carry around.

 

[mrcharly]

Sports Direct stock Karrimor boots. Sometimes they have the good ones in.

I bought a one-man tent from Argos for £15. It's brilliant, quick to put up, would stand up to a gale and has loads of room for one person.

My day pack is a 'regatta' from Yoeman's. Cheap but it has lasted well. Some surprisingly good design features (such as pole-carrying attachments that actually work). Two strips of webbing sown into loops so that you can attach other items with cord.

We (well, it is is my wife's) have a fab non-stick cookset. frying pan, two smaller pans, handle, lid that is a strainer. It's really good (although not for use on a campfire). Cheap from Aldi.

A bit of shopping around can get you good kit for not a lot.