The joy of saex

[Snufkin]

After playing with my nessmuk for a while I started thinking of other historical knives. I always liked the look of the Anglo-Saxon saexes and wondered how they'd hold up to bushcraft use, so I made one.

Blade is convex ground 88mmx22mmx3mm 01 tool steel. Handle is 94mm cherry with brass spacers.
It works really well, which is to be expected as the saxons used them in their every day lives.
Anyone else tried one?

 

[Hoodoo]

Pretty saexy!

 

[TheViking]

When i read the title, i thought you'd put an a'' too much in, but never mind. :rolmao:

It will without doubt be good for drilling holes. The handle is beautifully crafted. Suits the knife with brass spacers. :biggthump

 

[JakeR]

The title made me look twice too!

Would the vikings really have known enough about steels to make it 01?

 

[arctic hobo]

Looks great :biggthump Interesting idea... a good one. Would love to try one out. Do you know any good sites with this sort of thing?

 

[Snufkin]

Looks great :biggthump Interesting idea... a good one. Would love to try one out. Do you know any good sites with this sort of thing?

Only place that I know that sells them is the Jelling Dragon theirs look a bit pricey for such a simple knife to make.

 

[Snufkin]

The title made me look twice too!

Would the vikings really have known enough about steels to make it 01?

Don't know about 01 but the saxons/vikings were some of the most sophisticated metalworkers in history, pattern welding and laminating sword blades several hundred years before anyone else.

 

[JakeR]

Thats pretty impressive, i didn't know that...

:biggthump

 

[philaw]

I was looking to find out about saexes recently and came across these sites. Any thoughts of getting one for day to day use were extinguished by seeing that, like info on them, they are scarce, and are around £40+ and too big (8"+). Anyone that's found something smaller, please tell me.

http://www.todsstuff.co.uk
http://www.millennia.demon.co.uk/ravens/seax


On another note, I saw some rusted old versions in the Yorkshire museum (York) yesterday, and took a picture of the handle (intricate) which I'll post when I get it developed. Some of the saxon jewellry was impressive, and there was even a stone carving from the monastery at lindisfarne depicting the viking raid of 793AD, with people waving scary axes and swords around.

 

[arctic hobo]

The 8"+ makes sense to me, I understood that the saex was a dirk or even a battle weapon. Surprised to find a small one suitable for bushcraft :?:

 

[BorderReiver]

Don't know about 01 but the saxons/vikings were some of the most sophisticated metalworkers in history, pattern welding and laminating sword blades several hundred years before anyone else.

Even the Chinese and Japanese?

 

[arctic hobo]

That's a tricky one because I don't know about Chinese history, but from what I know about European history I believe it's true. Take Roman metalwork as an example - not comparable.

 

[Snufkin]

Even the Chinese and Japanese?

I'm pretty sure before the japanese, not really up on my chinese history.

 

[Moonraker]

I agree with Snufkin.

here is one description of some of the techniques used by the Anglo - Saxon sword makers

The blades themselves deserve special mention. The process of smelting good iron sometimes resulted in small amounts of steel being produced quite deliberately. (We may be underestimating their abilities here). The steel, because it held a good sharp edge was employed on the edges of the blade, with the relatively softer iron making up the bulk of the core of the blade. This core could be embellished by plaiting different grades of iron together in patterns to create beautiful 'pattern welded' blades. We are not totally sure of the benefits of this lengthy process, but flexibility is one of several suggestions. These were highly treasured by their owners, and gained various nicknames which described the twisting patterns. Later in the period, blades became more homogeneous in their construction, which may indicate their increasing ability to smelt better iron in larger quantities.

The rest of this interesting and informative article is here:

Regia Anglorum - Arms and Armour of the Anglo Saxons - Arms and Armour - Part 5 - Swords

Their skill was most probably ahead of the Japanese a during this time. If you consider the Anglo Saxon period in Britain was around 597-1066 when they were producing this level of craftsmanship; this coincides approximately with the Nara and Hein period in Japan (the metal working skill came into Japan from China and Korea in the Ancient time before this. At that time they also had a straight sword design) At the beginning of this period the sword making was still primitive but with some progress. In the later time the sword making really started to improve dramatically and take on a true Japanese style.

It was long after the Normans had pushed the Anglo Saxons from Britain ( well integrated them) in the Kamakura period (1192-1336) that Zen Buddhism entered Japan from China and Korea and the Samurai warriors became followers of Zen, with their magnificant armour and Katana swords which we think of today.

There is a great site with a comprehensive history of Samurai swords here:

Japanese Samurai Swords


To get a good idea of just how sophisticated and beautiful the Anglo Saxon metal craftsmenship was Jake you should try to get to visit the Sutton Hoo burial site treasure sometime. It is awesome in the true sense of the word and regarded as the most important archaelogical find ever in Britain, not just for it's cultural importance but for the sheer beauty of the objects.

This is a photo of a replica sword blade made to match the Royal Sword from the British Museum. Besides imparting great tensile strength to the blade, the pattern welding process gave it a distinctive rippled interlace appearance when polished. The detail is visible using X-ray enabling them to see just how intricate the work was.

Read more here:

The Royal Sword Blade

Simon

 

[JM]

Same opinion from here,

Though the Japanese metallurgy can be reverred, they are not the only experts, and are historically fairly recent.

One must effectively remember the vikings which were as fine craftmen as they were ruckless and restless invaders.

In France in the same period that the sax in UK, the Meroviginans produced also some fine similar pattern welded blades, so we can imagine this was a craft known to northern Europe ( I remind the Francs are as german as the Saxs )

While the japanese were playing with imported ore, trying to duplicate chineses weaponry (dhas and such), the indians were already masters at the production of Ulu, now known as wootz...

Also remember the indonesian Empus, that produce the traditional Keris (Kriss), whose contruction is a marvel or craft, as it requires 3 dimentional pattern welding, and these guys have been at work for some time too! ...

Do not let yourself be impressed by the terms middle-ages and dark ages, People were in some ways more enlightened in these times than in other parts of history, just very little is known. They were certainly not the barbarians history books talk about, and archeologic findings tend to prove this.

Nice Saex, BTW I like the idea.

 

[BorderReiver]

Thanks for the comprehensive and illuminating reply Simon.JM too. :super:

 

[arctic hobo]

Same opinion from here,

Though the Japanese metallurgy can be reverred, they are not the only experts, and are historically fairly recent.

To put that into perspective, they were no match for the Mongols (1200's) although they were never matched (long stories involving Kamikaze and ships).

 

[JM]

Chinese, Mongols, and westerners with long rapieres..., That is what happen when the art of war is written down, and comes foreigners that did not read the book This said they make nice looking swords, Have you noticed their folding knives look like folding saex ?

More on the different timings at:

http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

(unfortunately originally in french and only half translated by google)

 

[Moonraker]

To put that into perspective, they were no match for the Mongols (1200's) although they were never matched (long stories involving Kamikaze and ships).

Kamakura period (1192 ~ 1336): Zen Buddhism was introduced to Japan during this period from China and Korea, otherwise known and Chan Buddhism. Large number of Samurai warriors became followers of Zen. The Samurai class would become a leading social hierarchy. Also during this period, Confucianism became widespread, instilling loyalty and social order to the people. Another noteable event in history during this period is the Mongol Invasion. The Mongols had already conquered China and was eyeing Japan. A large fleet of Mongol ships had made it’s way to Kyushu Japan, but was later forced to turn back because of horrendous weather conditions. A quite favorable event for the Japanese, as the Mongol army outnumbered the Japanese by a large number. Several more attempts would be made, but the Mongols would be forced back countless times due to hostile weather. Japanese smiths began experimenting with different kinds of metals and steel types to further improve the sword. The government demand for swords continued to fuel development and manufacturing.

I am not sure it was the Mongol superiority in weaponry rather superiority in numbers; and it looks like the Japanese had weather on their side too

 

[arctic hobo]

I am not sure it was the Mongol superiority in weaponry rather superiority in numbers; and it looks like the Japanese had weather on their side too

I know that's why, but the real business with the Samurai swords becoming the best in the world did not come until after the Mongols. There is a lot of speculation among Mongol historians about what would have happened, because as you say the Japanese were starting to get their act together weapons-wise, but the general consensus is that they would have lost horribly (after all, if the Mongols conquered all Asia abnd held it, what were a few islands?)