The Covid19 Thread

[santaman2000]

Ah, Jenner's wasn't a vaccine, it was an inoculation, variolation. It's a different thing.
It was a milder form, cowpox, and that produced enough of an antibody effect that it kind of gave the body a heads up so that when it did meet with the smallpox virus it got into gear to kill it off much more quickly.

As far as I know we don't have anything that works that way with this virus. There were early hopes that having had another in the family might, but I haven't read anything to back that up since.

M

Even if we only consider Dryvax (late 1890s) as the first true smallpox vaccine it still took almost a century to eradicate.

No, it simply needs to be long enough that any new cases can be spotted and isolated and their transmission to anyone else stopped.

No. Delayed: not stopped.

And that's a reason not to deal properly and thoroughly with the one we have now ????
[/QUOTE

Of course we continue to try. eventually we WILL have a vaccine. That said, to expect to be able to maintain restrictions for the 2 to 20 years it’s going to take to develop a vaccines (2 years being an optimistic prediction and 20 being pessimistic—-the normal time being usually between 5 to 8 years) is as unrealistic as the idea thatreatrictions and isolation alone will do anything more than delay the spread

edited to add: I think our biggest disagreement is on just what is “properly” dealing with this one. I’m don’t consider futile measure which cause more harm than good particularly proper. Nor legal in our case.

 

[santaman2000]

.........Tell people that the situation is just a little less scary, and thousands mob the beaches, hold all night street parties, start brawls and act as if VE Day has been declared.

Does this look like thousands mobbing the beach? I see small family groups of far less than 10 maintaining far more than 6 feet separation in an environment that by its nature is uncondusive to transmission. That said, these appear to be locals on a day trip. I expect tourist staying for a weekend or more in local motels and condos is resulting in more dense indoor environments although all of the restaurants I’ve patronized have generally enforced distancing I expect our normal tourist crowd (heavy in teenagers and young 20 something university students) are indeed partying in their rooms and condos.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=576990013014864

@Toddy It might be interesting to note that our population (Florida) is made up of what we jokingly (yet truthfully) refer to as “the newly wed and the nearly dead.” Basically referring that the two natures of the state:
1) The heavy reliance on tourist economy draws a large portion of honeymooners in to the transient mix
and
2) Being an extremely popular destination for retirees to relocate permanently and elderly “snowbirds” to winter here we draw a disproportionate number of elderly as well.

The first case would seem to back up my belief in the heightened transmission rates and the second would account for a higher fatality rate. Even precovid we had the nations highest mortality rate per admission —— generally attributed to having the highest elderly population in the nation (the percentages of both seemed to usually match from year to year)

Likewise for Mexico’s coastal areas: they attract hordes of young students on spring break as well as more mature retirees as tourists or in the case of the retirees, snowbirds or permanent relocates.

 

[Corso]

Take an average of the last five years of deaths in the country, for whatever causes. Then compare it to the present year.
That difference in numbers, if significant, is the difference caused by the only known present reason; Covid-19.
That having the disease puts enormous stress on many who have underlying health issues causes confusion on the death certificate, did they die of the underlying health condition because they also had covid-19, or did they die of covid-19 itself ?

Its not that simple though is it - what about the deaths caused by people not going to their GP, or A&E or because cancer screening stopped during this period? They will be lost in those simplistic figures. What about the potential rise in mortality due to suicide, increased stress and unhealthy coping mechanisms or the madness thats probably going to happen this weekend.

The stats are not counting the fact that alot of people dying with a postive Covid 19 test result are having mild symptoms and dying of something else.

Ah, Jenner's wasn't a vaccine, it was an inoculation, variolation. It's a different thing.
It was a milder form, cowpox, and that produced enough of an antibody effect that it kind of gave the body a heads up so that when it did meet with the smallpox virus it got into gear to kill it off much more quickly.

As far as I know we don't have anything that works that way with this virus. There were early hopes that having had another in the family might, but I haven't read anything to back that up since.

M

And don't get me started on the Vacine cash cow, my point was it took 100's of years to get rid of smallpox. Goodluck with ridding covid any time soon

Anyway i'm going to bow out, nothing is going to change my mind about this so i don't think i'll add any more comments, until next year atleast when we have annual covid season back and we are doing this all over again...

 

[santaman2000]

Edited my last post to I’m like the video.

 

[Toddy]

Coronavirus: Why surviving the virus may be just the beginning

For many survivors, waking up in intensive care was only the beginning of a long process of physical and psychological recovery.

www.bbc.co.uk

Read that and tell me why we ought not to do everything we can to avoid either catching or spreading this disease.

That's all it needs. Stop it spreading, stop it from going anywhere.
But no, apparently the world is 'desperate' for international travel desperate to go to the pub, have a meal in a restaurant, desperate to crowd onto a beach somewhere with thousands of others.
It's rank stupidity. The selfish will ensure that it survives and comes again in waves.

The article is about people who have survived it. Thankfully most get off an awful lot more lightly.

I hope you all stay safe and well, and that this damned disease is eliminated.

 

[Chainsaw]

soooo I am getting the feeling Toddy is on the Public Health side of the scales...

 

[Paul_B]

Anyone going to the pub on stupid Saturday? Lancaster will probably be heaving and it could end up like black eye Friday. Social distancing a joke best left for the young and healthy to laugh at.

I still find it strange that pubs are safe to open but schools aren't. Teacher unions were dead set against it. What about the unions that serve the pub and hospitality workers? Aren't they opposed to the risk to their members like teacher's unions?

Just watched CUK charity advert that says cancer research is on hold but will never end. So something as important as medical research stops but pubs open?

There's a forum I sometimes visit that had a poll thread that was my started over a month ago. It asked whether it's more important to open schools or pubs. Do I really need to say which was leading last time I checked? Let's just say it'll win out on stupid Saturday!!

 

[C_Claycomb]

Does this look like thousands mobbing the beach? I see small family groups of far less than 10 maintaining far more than 6 feet separation in an environment that by its nature is uncondusive to transmission. That said, these appear to be locals on a day trip. I expect tourist staying for a weekend or more in local motels and condos is resulting in more dense indoor environments although all of the restaurants I’ve patronized have generally enforced distancing I expect our normal tourist crowd (heavy in teenagers and young 20 something university students) are indeed partying in their rooms and condos.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=576990013014864

....

No, but this does:

Bournemouth beach chaos was "completely unacceptable", says Boris Johnson

PRIME minister Boris Johnson has said the chaotic scenes at Bournemouth beach last week were “completely unacceptable”.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Over a month ago...

I am sure that they would have been more spread out...but events conspired against them. One might say this was unexpected, but maybe not entirely unpredictable.

Back at Lulworth and Durdle Door today supporting #purbeckpolice in ensuring we have no repetition of yesterday's events.
Regrettably, we had to close the roads as the volume of traffic was such that no emergency vehicle would have been able to gain access.
This information was circulated far and wide, yet hundreds still drove down from many miles away, wholly unaware having not planned their journeys, and ignored the advance information messages and radio station broadcasts, further compounding the issues.
Despite the national coverage yesterday, some still saw fit to repeat the 'tombstoning' that seriously injured themselves, and inconvenienced thousands, although we are pleased to report no serious injuries sustained.
#onthebeatdorset
#poolepolice
#PC2663 #Sgt654

Durdle Door: Tombstoning continues despite three seriously hurt

Police say people have been seen jumping again from Durdle Door despite three people getting badly hurt.

www.bbc.co.uk

And this:

Mass brawl erupts after hundreds gather at beach

The first minister warns lockdown restrictions will not be eased if there is more violence.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just across the river from where the annual BCUK Moot is usually held.

 

[santaman2000]

Coronavirus: Why surviving the virus may be just the beginning

For many survivors, waking up in intensive care was only the beginning of a long process of physical and psychological recovery.

www.bbc.co.uk

Read that and tell me why we ought not to do everything we can to avoid either catching or spreading this disease.

That's all it needs. Stop it spreading, stop it from going anywhere.
But no, apparently the world is 'desperate' for international travel desperate to go to the pub, have a meal in a restaurant, desperate to crowd onto a beach somewhere with thousands of others.
It's rank stupidity. The selfish will ensure that it survives and comes again in waves.

The article is about people who have survived it. Thankfully most get off an awful lot more lightly.

I hope you all stay safe and well, and that this damned disease is eliminated.

Interesting article. But far from believable.

And no, the world isn’t “desperate for international travel or to crowd onto a beach somewhere.“ It’s demanding a return to normalcy and sanity.

And with or without any of this: the virus WILL return. As I keep saying over and over, nothing has been stopped. Only delayed.

 

[santaman2000]

........I still find it strange that pubs are safe to open but schools aren't. Teacher unions were dead set against it. What about the unions that serve the pub and hospitality workers? Aren't they opposed to the risk to their members like teacher's unions?......

Interesting. Y’all’s unions are really that widespread? The only state here that has unionized bartenders and culinary workers is Nevada. And those unions are following their members wishes and pushing for reopening casinos soon. Meanwhile the teachers unions (in states where they’re unionized) are mixed. Some teachers unions are pushing for reopening while others (mainly in the Northeast and on the West Coast) are pushing to remain closed. Here in the Southeast all of the teachers (all are non unionized) are pushing for reopening schools. Here in Florida they reopen next month.

 

[santaman2000]

No, but this does:

Bournemouth beach chaos was "completely unacceptable", says Boris Johnson

PRIME minister Boris Johnson has said the chaotic scenes at Bournemouth beach last week were “completely unacceptable”.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Over a month ago...

I am sure that they would have been more spread out...but events conspired against them. One might say this was unexpected, but maybe not entirely unpredictable.

Back at Lulworth and Durdle Door today supporting #purbeckpolice in ensuring we have no repetition of yesterday's events.
Regrettably, we had to close the roads as the volume of traffic was such that no emergency vehicle would have been able to gain access.
This information was circulated far and wide, yet hundreds still drove down from many miles away, wholly unaware having not planned their journeys, and ignored the advance information messages and radio station broadcasts, further compounding the issues.
Despite the national coverage yesterday, some still saw fit to repeat the 'tombstoning' that seriously injured themselves, and inconvenienced thousands, although we are pleased to report no serious injuries sustained.
#onthebeatdorset
#poolepolice
#PC2663 #Sgt654

Durdle Door: Tombstoning continues despite three seriously hurt

Police say people have been seen jumping again from Durdle Door despite three people getting badly hurt.

www.bbc.co.uk

And this:

Mass brawl erupts after hundreds gather at beach

The first minister warns lockdown restrictions will not be eased if there is more violence.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just across the river from where the annual BCUK Moot is usually held.

Perhaps if the beaches hadn’t been closed to begin with there would have been less impetus when they reopened. Just a thought : you saw the pictures here and ours never closed beyond a short week.

Regarding the cliff jumpers, they seem boring. They need to learn to dive instead.

 

[petrochemicals]

Corona is infact saving lives now

Deaths in England and Wales fall below average for first time since lockdown

ONS data shows number of deaths below five-year average for first time since March

www.theguardian.com

 

[TLM]

In Finland other infectious diseases are taking less of a toll because of the Wuhan virus measures. Apparently very noticeably so. Shows that some societal hygiene changes maybe should be made permanent. It is somewhat questionable if they could be made more permanent part of peoples habits.

 

[TeeDee]

No, but this does:

Bournemouth beach chaos was "completely unacceptable", says Boris Johnson

PRIME minister Boris Johnson has said the chaotic scenes at Bournemouth beach last week were “completely unacceptable”.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Over a month ago...

I am sure that they would have been more spread out...but events conspired against them. One might say this was unexpected, but maybe not entirely unpredictable.

Back at Lulworth and Durdle Door today supporting #purbeckpolice in ensuring we have no repetition of yesterday's events.
Regrettably, we had to close the roads as the volume of traffic was such that no emergency vehicle would have been able to gain access.
This information was circulated far and wide, yet hundreds still drove down from many miles away, wholly unaware having not planned their journeys, and ignored the advance information messages and radio station broadcasts, further compounding the issues.
Despite the national coverage yesterday, some still saw fit to repeat the 'tombstoning' that seriously injured themselves, and inconvenienced thousands, although we are pleased to report no serious injuries sustained.
#onthebeatdorset
#poolepolice
#PC2663 #Sgt654

Durdle Door: Tombstoning continues despite three seriously hurt

Police say people have been seen jumping again from Durdle Door despite three people getting badly hurt.

www.bbc.co.uk

And this:

Mass brawl erupts after hundreds gather at beach

The first minister warns lockdown restrictions will not be eased if there is more violence.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just across the river from where the annual BCUK Moot is usually held.

It would seem that Herd Immunity will be the Herd Survivors minus the Herd Stupidity factor. The bigger the level of Next Level Stupid the bigger the time frame for that Immunity. Madness of Crowds.

 

[Toddy]

Perhaps if the beaches hadn’t been closed to begin with there would have been less impetus when they reopened. Just a thought : you saw the pictures here and ours never closed beyond a short week.

and then we might have had America's horrendous infection rates. Our own was bad enough.

Interesting article. But far from believable.

I suspect that your country is desperate to believe that, with health care being the biggest cash cow and cause of homelessness and financial ruin there.

 

[TeeDee]

Interesting article. But far from believable.

And no, the world isn’t “desperate for international travel or to crowd onto a beach somewhere.“ It’s demanding a return to normalcy and sanity.

And with or without any of this: the virus WILL return. As I keep saying over and over, nothing has been stopped. Only delayed.

Just interested Santaman , But is BCUK the ONLY forum you post upon on a regular basis? Are there not more USA centric forums that you post upon?

 

[Nice65]

 

[santaman2000]

......I suspect that your country is desperate to believe that, with health care being the biggest cash cow and cause of homelessness and financial ruin there.

We’ve dispelled that myth multiple times. My insurance costs less than $100 per month. The majority of Americans pay around $00 per month for the employed individual or $400 per month for a family with no size limit. The poor pay nothing for their coverage. However what’s your tax rate? If I remember correctly VAT is nearly 25%? My sales tax is only 6.5%; less in other counties and many items are entirely tax exempt (groceries, school supplies during the pre school tax holiday, etc. plus hurricane supplies during the pre hurricane tax holiday) and my income tax is only 13% (And the first $3600 is exempted from tax—-$7200 for a family filing jointly)

 

[santaman2000]

Just interested Santaman , But is BCUK the ONLY forum you post upon on a regular basis? Are there not more USA centric forums that you post upon?

Yes. Also on BCUSA. That said, those are the only two “forums” that I follow at all.

 

[santaman2000]

and then we might have had America's horrendous infection rates. Our own was bad enough.......

You’re still missing the points:
a) While our infection rayes are bad, they’re not as bad as the the exaggerated figureswould seem. Nowhere near it. Neither or yours.
b) Your rates WILL be as bad as ours; and BOTH ours and yours will continue to climb until the predicted 80% to 100% is past.