The Advantages of A flintlock Gun for Long Term Wilderness Living/Survival.

[Janne]

Yes, shooting black poweder ( well, Pyrodex) is fun. I used to reload when I lived in Sweden, and for fun used Pyrodex in reloading .38 S, 357 M and .44 M . Love the smoke!
I used to compete a lot, and just to get some advantage I put a tiny amount of Pyrodex in with the Norma. Just to p*ss of the competition.

 

[Janne]

As a hunter with high ethics ( I hope) I want a quick, painless kill.
So I use the appropiate calliber and cartridge with the ( for the animal) most appropiate projectile.

anything else is immoral, unethical and plain stupid.

 

[Countryman]

Janne you are welcome at my campfire any time.


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[Janne]

Thank you!

But I have to say that The Loup's first post states one advatage over a modern firearm, which is the simplicity of the muzzle loaders.
Not easy to repair or remake a firing pin in the bush. Or a very well equiped workshop for that matter!

As I wrote in a thread about tomahawks vs axes - if the old version was that fantastic we would still be using it!

Also I would like to tell this community NOT to attemt to manufacture own (real) Black Powder.

Incredibly dangerous. Also the storage of it is important, and I am sure most people understand how dangerous B. P. is as all medieaval towns in Europe had, some still have, a special, stone built house or tower to store the towns supply of it

Now I have to quit posting and go to continue making a knive rack for my son.....

 

[Bishop]

The simplicity of construction for a muzzle loader really is the trump card. We are so used to associating this type of weapon with the beautifully ornate and intricate firearms of the 1850's that we forget the earlier versions were essentially banged out by the village blacksmith using wrought iron for the barrel. Plus if I recall my chemistry lessons correctly Sulphur is a desirable additive but not essential to create Black-powder so your propellent could be 100% organic sourced locally.

 

[Janne]

Is it from Urine you can extract Sulphur?

 

[Toddy]

No, that's saltpeter.
KNO3

M

 

[santaman2000]

Is it from Urine you can extract Sulphur?

The Conquistadors sourced their sulpher from volcanoes.

 

[santaman2000]

....Santaman even Loup agrees you cannot compare "sub second" ignition of a Flintlock or Cap n Ball gun with the ignition of a modern firearm. You also have a much slower muzzle velocity. All told plenty of opportunity for any of the animals on your list to start at the mechanics of ignition, move and for your carefully aimed shot to become non fatal.

How long is the Historic Firearms season in your state compared to the rifle hunting season?

Why is it different?

Really anybody telling me that they think that a Flintlock can compare for reliability, efficiency, range and versatility to hand loads in a modern rifle genuinely is deluding themselves.

I love black powder guns, they are fun and have a sense of nostalgia but I'm not using them to feed my family or hit a cull target.


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I don't think any of us have claimed that black powder guns (be they flintlock, percussion cap, or cartridge) have ignition as fast as smokeless powder. That slower rate though is still far too fast (providing you're loading properly) for it to be a handicap.

Likewise the reduced velocity and bullet terminal performance.

However I do prefer (as I already said) the more reliable percussion caps.

Regarding the hunting seasons, they're dependent on what zone (not statewide) Below are some samples (just for deer) for my zone this past year:

-Bow Season = 24 Oct -25 Nov for deer of either sex. An additional four days for antlered deer only = 30 Nov 4 Dec. (total of 41 days)
-Crossbow Season = Same as bow season
- Primitive Firearms (Muzzle-Loaders) = 5 - 11 Dec and again 22 - 28 Feb for antlered deer only (total of 14 days)
- General Gun Season (modern firearms) = 26 -29 Nov (Thanksgiving weekend) and again 12 Dec - 21 Feb for antlered deer only (total of 76 days)

Bag limit for ALL seasons is 2 per day



So that's 51 days total for bows + crossbows + muzzle-loaders vs 76 days total for modern firearms with the same bag limits for all (although the antlerless deer restriction is lifted for bows and crossbows)

The reason? Because gun hunters wouldn't put up with any more encroachment into their season.

 

[Janne]

In many countries only modern firearms are allowed in hunting. The reason is concerns about animal wellfate /suffering.
A bad hit with a expanding bullet is bad, but a bad hit with a non expanding all lead bullet is worse. In my opinion.

When I hunted cloven game I did get bad hits, specially in my youth. Awful to track down a suffering animal. Just awful! Tought me to only take "perfect" shots and to use excessively powerful callibers.
These days I do not hunt anything large.

A clean kill is depending on area hit. A slow lead ball has a very small " instant kill " zone compared to a fast expanding bullet with a high residual weight.
A 7mm Rem Mag / Nosler Partition will instantly kill a deer if hit anywhere in the rib cage. A .32 lead ball will not.

 

[Robson Valley]

You can (according to African PH's) kill anything with well placed shots from a Rem .30-'06. That's fine.
Shot placement is the ultimate goal.
The charcoal burners have their flints - works just fine for them and their families.
The onus is entirely upon the skill and the ethics of the hunter. Show up or shut up.
Either you can walk the talk or not = it's that simple.

The argumentative discussion serves no purpose other that to reveal a great variety of choices where you may or may not be restricted by law.
I cannot guide you hunting here by law. You buy guide services or eat take-away.

 

[santaman2000]

In many countries only modern firearms are allowed in hunting. The reason is concerns about animal wellfate /suffering.
A bad hit with a expanding bullet is bad, but a bad hit with a non expanding all lead bullet is worse. In my opinion.

When I hunted cloven game I did get bad hits, specially in my youth. Awful to track down a suffering animal. Just awful! Tought me to only take "perfect" shots and to use excessively powerful callibers.
These days I do not hunt anything large.

A clean kill is depending on area hit. A slow lead ball has a very small " instant kill " zone compared to a fast expanding bullet with a high residual weight.
A 7mm Rem Mag / Nosler Partition will instantly kill a deer if hit anywhere in the rib cage. A .32 lead ball will not.

Ummm. No. A 7mm Rem Mag is a good round; but it ain't a super bullet. I've seen whitetail deer shot in the heart with 30 cal smokeless rounds (30-30 and 30-06) run another 100 yards in front of the dogs before they knew they were dead. And I've seen other whitetails drop instantly when shot with a 357 Magnum from a 6 inch barrel.

In other words, there's no such thing as an "instant kill" zone. There ARE better/quicker/more reliable kill zones than others (brain and heart obviously) but no certainties. Sometimes they drop DRT; sometimes not.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Not strictly an invited observation but for what it's worth I fully understand any desire to successfully stalk and take a beast cleanly with a flintlock. For me it's no different from reverting to an open sighted rifle or the bow. Would but we could the latter legally in this Country. ‎

No deliberation required in what rifle to take into the woods for a 12-month "living wild" challenge: 

.22LR with sound moderator and sub-sonic ammunition. 

K

 

[Countryman]

I have to say as a "Survival Rifle" the Americans already spent a tonne of cash on this and came up with the C2 or AR7 carbine. A .22LR semi automatic that packs into its own butt stock.

If I was a Mountain Man then I'd want something with a bit more punch but this little gun will get you fed.

Simple is always good when your life depends on technology. I prefer a bolt gun in .300 Win Mag and consider it one size fits all but then it can be loaded with any .30 cal bullet and the MV adjusted further by powder quantity. It's a calibre capable of taking any creature on the planet and of shooting out to 1200 yards consistently. However for survival you are likely talking small game and a .300 isn't going to leave much.

Packing 100 rounds of .22LR vs 100 rounds .300 Win Mag isn't really something I have to do.

A .22lr or .410 shotgun are both good choices.




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[Janne]

I never wrote the 7mm was a super round, I just like it the best as an all rounder.
Just as I prefer a .357 for a revolver.
One huge advantage with a rimfire like the .22 LR is that it is also easy to preserve / make watertight due to its size and only one path for water ingression.
I have read that some people preserve them by dipping them in wax.
Personslly I think a semi auto rifle would not make an optimal survival gun due to its relative complexity and higher chance of non functioning.
But it may be easier to use by people that are not experienced ?
Bolt action is better, imo.

Btw, a flintlock has one major disadvatage. It needs a flint. If you break it, or lose it, what happpens then?
Flint is not that common.

 

[Bishop]

Before flint there was the matchlock

 

[Klenchblaize]

I was going to add:

Once decided on the quantity of centrefire cartridges or powder & ball to be permitted on this imagined adventure I will happily take whatever number of 22LR rounds is equal in weight. Throwing in a few freezer zip-lock bags would be the icing on the cake.

K

 

[forrestdweller]

Before flint there was the matchlock

hhhmmmm-sending smoke signals to the game you plan to hunt?! trying to catch diner I'd say....

back in the match lock and flintlock days it was not unheard of to stop battles when the weather turned too bad: rain and gunpowder don't go too well together and cartridges do have a clear advantage here....

 

[Countryman]

Well the weather is really a factor not considered in the Flintlock discussion either. OP lives in outback Australia not on a rainy little island on the outskirts of Europe.

On the fire lighting front too anybody who has tried flint and steel in the damp / drizzle will be able to define frustration.


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[santaman2000]

......back in the match lock and flintlock days it was not unheard of to stop battles when the weather turned too bad: rain and gunpowder don't go too well together and cartridges do have a clear advantage here....

Well the weather is really a factor not considered in the Flintlock discussion either. OP lives in outback Australia not on a rainy little island on the outskirts of Europe.

On the firefighting front too anybody who has tried flint and steel in the damp / drizzle will be able to define frustration.


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Hence my preference for percussion caps (at least one of the reasons) Add a small balloon or condom over the barrel and most weather you'd hunt in isn't an insurmountable problem.