My heart goes out to the family, what a terrible tragedy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-14537502
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-14537502
Tent death
- Thread starter Opal
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very sad. I'm sure mostl of us have, at one time or another, been forced to cook inside a tent. Sometimes it's just plain old bad luck when things go wrong.
You need to know what you are doing if you cook in a tent.
My thoughts are with the family and loved ones.
My thoughts are with the family and loved ones.
But in this case it was more likely ignorance, stupidity and inadequate ventilation.
Might sound harsh but this sort of thing happens far too often. My heart goes out to the bloke and his kids who've lost a wife and mother in a situation so easily avoidable.
About 15/20 years ago we were camped on a site in Towyn near Rhyl, we heard an explosion 50 yards away and this bloke came running out of his tent with what looked like a gas bottle ablaze, a few folk, well a lot really, attended to him, from where we were stood it appeared his face got the brunt of it.
Not nice.
Not nice.
Ahhhh, smouldering fuels, confined spaces and poor ventilation = death. Very sad, but yet another warning of the lethality of carbon monoxide inhalation ....of which I have little doubt was the cause of death. Be warned folks, any combustion can and does produce CO, but smouldering fuels, such as burning charcoal and O2 starved wood fires are absolutely lethal. Incomplete combustion produces much more CO than an open fire, it has no taste, no smell and makes you sleepy, then you pass out and die. Never go to sleep with a naked flame burning in your tent, unless you are looking for a Darwin award.
Always such a shame to hear of a tragedy like this 
We can only sympathise and take heed of the warnings.
Toddy
We can only sympathise and take heed of the warnings.
Toddy
It would be good to make a very clear statement on here of what not to do once the facts are known. I have heard that disposable BBQ's are lethal in such situations and so I wonder if that is what has happened here? What about Gaz stoves, lights and so forth? I guess these are OK? Anyone care to elaborate?
How about The use of any combustion in an inclosed or poorly ventilated area is a bad bad idea, wether it be a bbq, or a gas stove or light or a car!
Carbon monoxide is produced by the incomplete combustion of a hydrocarbon fuel source.
In Engrish, when something burns, it gives off products, light, heat and usually other gasses. What those other gasses are, depends on what is being burned, and how it is being burned. For example, hydrocarbons (carbon based organic compounds) such as petrol, paraffin, methanol, diesel, wood, oil, charcoal, propane etc, usually produce carbon dioxide, light, heat and water vapour when burned completely. Burning completely requires plenty of heat, but most importantly, plenty of oxygen. If you starve a burning hydrocarbon of oxygen, you will get partial combustion - such as in charcoal making. The hydrocarbon doesnt burn completely and the products of combustion are different. Instead of producing carbon dioxide, there is only enough oxygen to produce the much more harmful carbon monoxide. Anything from a dodgy Tilley lamp mantle to a full on charcoal BBQ will produce carbon monoxide. How much CO is produced, depends on how poor the combustion is. It varies significantly but smouldering fires - fires low on oxygen, either because they are deliberately damped, or accidentally smothered, produce the most.
As far as your blood is concerned, carbon monoxide looks like oxygen. In fact it looks more like oxygen, than oxygen does. Carbon monoxide binds onto haemoglobin, the molecule in blood cells that usually carries oxygen. The problem is, the 'fit' between carbon monoxide and haemoglobin is so good, it pushes oxygen out - and it doesnt let go. As your blood slowly fills up with carbon monoxide, you are slowly starved of oxygen and eventually your brain infarcts from lack of it and you have a cardiac arrest. Slightly slower than having a plastic bag tied over your head, but the end result is exactly the same.
Most gas cannister products are very clean burning (providing they are given adequate oxygen (ventilation) and providing they are not faulty. Gas stoves, when used properly typically produce very little, if any carbon monoxide. Paraffin products are less easy to be confident with. They can vary quite a lot and require proper maintenance. Wood stoves, especially stoves with the vents closed off, smudge fires and charcoal fires produce massive amounts of carbon monoxide and should only be used with proper ventilation (which usually means in the open).
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Thanks; that's a pretty comprehensive reply! I don't understand why you can get gas fired lamps for camping then? Surely these are tempting fate by their very design?
Surely a sensible person would make sure their shelter is ventilated, I've cooked in and lit up tents for 45 years and never had a problem. These days I use petrol, paraffin and gas lanterns and stoves without issue. Ignorance it what tempts fate, don't blame the appliance.
I'll bet you a firesteel, on the instructions they ALL say "use in a well ventilated area" (well, those with a CE mark anyway).
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If only we could get hydrogen fuelled lamps. As hydrogen contains no carbon, it cannot produce carbon monoxide. Might be something of an explosion hazard though.
Last year a chap a few tents away had his camping stove explode. It was one of those small single burners that take a compressed gas cartridge horizontally to the side of the burner. He was using a large pan which radiated the heat back down and overheated the canister! The thing blew apart and shot shrapnel into his leg! One of the festival stewards said it was the third of that type he had seen blow up.
Needles to say, mine went in the bin after that.
Needles to say, mine went in the bin after that.
Interesting I really like those wee flat stoves, and lorry drivers use them in their cabs because they are so stable.
I'll mind not to use too wide a pan though.
Martyn that's a really clear listing; thank you
Rik's point is well made too.
Those who grew up with open fires and paraffin stoves, fires and lanterns, were taught about ventilation, and that a draught wasn't always a bad thing. Modern tents with sewn in groundsheets and water and air tight flysheets need extra care with those.
Charcoal bbq's though....no we didn't have those and I mind asking if one burning low in a big tent might be a good heat source in Winter that could just be allowed to burn until it died out.
Thankfully someone told me bluntly why not
I'm sorry for the family of the lady who died, but it's a lesson worth remembering.
M
I really like those wee flat stoves, and lorry drivers use them in their cabs because they are so stable.I'll mind not to use too wide a pan though.
Martyn that's a really clear listing; thank you
Rik's point is well made too.
Those who grew up with open fires and paraffin stoves, fires and lanterns, were taught about ventilation, and that a draught wasn't always a bad thing. Modern tents with sewn in groundsheets and water and air tight flysheets need extra care with those.
Charcoal bbq's though....no we didn't have those and I mind asking if one burning low in a big tent might be a good heat source in Winter that could just be allowed to burn until it died out.
Thankfully someone told me bluntly why not
I'm sorry for the family of the lady who died, but it's a lesson worth remembering.
M
BOD
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I wonder who told native Americans and other indigenous people to have ventilation in their teepee
I was wondering about Inuit, and igloos and winter sod houses, when I posted the reply above.
They burn fat in their soapstone lamps.
cheers,
M
They burn fat in their soapstone lamps.
cheers,
M
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