Survive an Unexpected Night Out

[Bravo4]

Is the cell phone your 'primary' survival tool? It is not enough. In fact it can possibly do more harm than good.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/sns-ap-us-missing-helicopter,0,7543863.story

This is happening right now in the mountains outside of town (Pecos Wilderness thread) and it's looking pretty bad . Yes, it is mid-june and snowing in the mountains of northern New Mexico.

Cell phones and GPS receivers are amazing tools but I suppose the inverse of "that which does not kill me makes me stronger" is "that which makes my life easier makes me weaker".

I bug my friends with this scenario from time to time:
you're out for a daytrip or possibly you are base camped and away from camp for the day so just your day-kit on your person. For whatever reasons(terrain, weather, injury, nav error, spent too long picking berries, whatever) you are not making it back to the car/camp, it's some miles away, the sun is going down, it's starting to rain which turns into a sort of driven 'slush'. It could be a very long night,,,,

I know that many who visit this forum would find an unexpected night out to be no big deal, a bonus in fact. For others it might be worth a closer look at what it is exactly that is going to get you through a truly 'forced' bivouac. Do a controlled over-nighter with just what you would have on you for a daytrip. Practice the skills. Become a better navigator.

If you get into trouble out in the boonies, there are people who will risk their lives to come help you. People who will go into harm's way, give up their lives so that others may live. One of the things we owe these folk is to have our act together when we head out the door. I feel that includes being able to cope with the unexpected night out in the wilds, to make it a 'non-event'.

 

[forestwalker]

I feel that includes being able to cope with the unexpected night out in the wilds, to make it a 'non-event'.

The SAR people issue apart, I think you summed up the reason for survival training pretty well. The number of people who has to walk out of Siberia, or sit it out in a crashed airplane in the Andes is fairly small, but hunters geting lost, snowmobiles breaking down, or berry pickers twisting an ankle, etc is fairly common. Having the proper skill set makes these things much less dramatic.

If I got lost and had to spend the night unexpectedly I'd most certainly would use my cell phone; it is only polite to tell your familly that you won't be home for dinner (most likely SMS; "wood fae cute, will spend night").

As a side issue, as the PLBs become more common, I suspect that we will see an increase in the number of "too stupid to live" callouts. Beacuse if you have the PLB, there is no need for extra food in case your trip takes longer, extra clothes in case the weather turns nasty, spare paddle, a sane first aid kit, etc.. Because if things get rough you just click your heels^W^W^W push the button and the magic SAR fairies will come and take you home.

 

[Bravo4]

If I got lost and had to spend the night unexpectedly I'd most certainly would use my cell phone; it is only polite to tell your familly that you won't be home for dinner (most likely SMS; "wood fae cute, will spend night").

I'm not against cell phone use, I'm really not. Same for gps and epirb. Being able to call home and say you are to be delayed, as opposed to pressing on so as to meet a 'back no later than" deadline, is a huge safety enhancement. At the same time, being able to "push button, come save me" can change how we go about preparing for an outing and possibly alter our survival psychology for the worse.

The location where this hiker became lost, this same scenario is played out every summer and time and again it is a seriously unprepared person or group who has a cell phone and little else. It is certainly not every time that a helicopter goes down but it can happen. It wasn't more than 5-6 years ago that another SAR helicopter crash landed, crew survived, on the very same mountain. I'm out of search and rescue and this case does not really concern me personally but it's a serious bummer, it's close to home and it breaks my heart. I didn't mean this thread to be a rant against cell phones or against anything, just my belief that if a person takes to the wild country they have a responsibility to others that can extend well beyond their immediate circle of friends and family.

in omnia paratus

 

[featherstick]

Once sat in a pub in the Lake District, looking through the Mountain Rescue book. Most of the most recent call-outs were idiots who had gone walking with no equipment other than a mobile phone. They'd mostly been caught out by the weather and were stranded on hillsides in fog with no map, compass, food, skills, or even decent clothing, in some cases.

I left a couple of quid in the collection box.

 

[sapper1]

I remember a tale of two people who hired bicycles for a day out in a large forest,the shop owner asked them if they would like a map,they declined as they had a mobile phone and would be able to call for help if they needed it.they were late returning and the shop owner was a bit worried.so he phoned them to see if they were O.K. they answered the phone and asked him if he could give them directions back to the shop.No problem he said where are you.And the reply came back ,we don't know.
Mobile phones are O.K. if you know exactly where you are.

 

[Tadpole]

I'm not against cell phone use, I'm really not. Same for gps and epirb. Being able to call home and say you are to be delayed, as opposed to pressing on so as to meet a 'back no later than" deadline, is a huge safety enhancement. At the same time, being able to "push button, come save me" can change how we go about preparing for an outing and possibly alter our survival psychology for the worse.

The location where this hiker became lost, this same scenario is played out every summer and time and again it is a seriously unprepared person or group who has a cell phone and little else. It is certainly not every time that a helicopter goes down but it can happen. It wasn't more than 5-6 years ago that another SAR helicopter crash landed, crew survived, on the very same mountain. I'm out of search and rescue and this case does not really concern me personally but it's a serious bummer, it's close to home and it breaks my heart. I didn't mean this thread to be a rant against cell phones or against anything, just my belief that if a person takes to the wild country they have a responsibility to others that can extend well beyond their immediate circle of friends and family.

in omnia paratus

Not just the idiots who take to the hills with a camera, a credit card, a mobile phone and little else, you get the same mentality but with added boat, every summer people take their annual jaunt in their speed boat, and forget simple things like navigation lights, charts, compass, fuel flares. thinking that they have their cell phone, but forgetting that cell phones have poor coverage out to sea. or even a mile of so from land :yikes:

 

[Prawnster]

Good post Bravo-4.

If only the general public would take this issue more seriously then the volunteers wouldn't have to put themselves in harms way so often.

Walking in the lake district with a friend one day we came across a group of people who looked like they were prepared for a day of shopping. Light coats, jeans and trainers. It was January and there was ice and snow all around! The problem is that if I'd have said what I really wanted to say which would be something along the lines of 'What the hell do you think you're doing? Make your way back down before someone gets hurt and you have to be rescued,' they wouldn't have listened to a word but would have laughed at me 'the weirdo hiker'.

 

[Ogri the trog]

I fully agree with going prepared,
however the down side of "the expectation" of getting rescued is that - if the rescuers were to judge someone as "too stupid to live", and not attempt the recovery, they would be sued for millions by people who know no different.

What have we done to ourselves?

Ogri the trog

 

[Melonfish]

i'd have to say that up to a couple of months ago i'd have been one of those lost in the wilderness with terrible signal issues and a hankering for suberbia!
i'd perhaps have a waterprood poncho on me (cause i have a habit of carrying it just incase)
now i think and plan outings, even day walks where i'm local. make sure i have the gear i need or MIGHT need (within reason) in my pack.
you never know and the scout motto is universal "Be Prepared" never a truer word was spoken of the outdoors.

 

[SMARTY]

I agree with what has been said by all so far. I agree with the use of communications to aid SAR etc. The most important thing is that people survive to get rescued in the first place. Average time to rescue is around 72 hours from notification.. Therefore if you take equipment to help you survive following an incident etc take enough for at least 72 hours. The time to notification for SAR can be reduced by PLB's, mobile phones etc, alternatively tell someone your movements and expected return time. As for SAR agencies being at risk, a full risk assessment is done proir and during rescues, they make the call and can abort at any time.

 

[rik_uk3]

Good post Bravo, but cell phone coverage in the states is not as complete as the UK (according to some Americans I know who visit from time to time) so the chances of getting a signal here is better.

I'm all for carrying good kit for a trip, from map and compass to food, FAK and waterproofs. Its not down to reliance on a mobile phone that I hark on about, but having a mobile as part of your emergency kit I would have thought should be standard practise, certainly in the UK.

One thing for sure, there are enough mobiles in evidence at camps, pretty much everyone has one and seems to use them and as such I can't understand the hostility toward them (or me for that matter) when they are mentioned in a survival situation.

You can buy a mobile phone new for £10/$16, surely a cheap enough price for a potentially life saving piece of equipment.

So lets stop slagging them off and start to accept them for what they are, another useful tool to carry when out and about.

 

[sandbender]

One mobile phone manufacturer (Apple) is putting some thought into how best to make use of the mobile phone as an emergency device, as this recent patent application reveals.

"The scope of Apple's work extends to recognition of when a given call is an emergency call, activation of power-saving measures, use of confirmation buttons and tasks to decrease chances of premature disconnection, and the use of pre-determined "phrase buttons" to enable sending of automated messages and information."​

 

[Bravo4]

So lets stop slagging them off and start to accept them for what they are, another useful tool to carry when out and about.

I agree with you rik. I'm not against carrying a cell phone, I have one of those cheap ones and I would be foolish if I did not bring it, "as part of" my emergency kit. As part of. I often travel solo and if I were to become injured you can bet I would rather make a phone call than drag myself out of the backcountry, a la Joe Simpson. At the same time I would be negligent as an outdoorsman if the cell phone is really all I've got, my only skill.

One person's survival situation is another's camp-out. So, maybe step one of 'survive an unexpected night out' would be to call home and let someone know you are safe, you're spending the night and will continue on at first light. This alone can prevent initiating needless searches and justifies carrying a phone. Actually step one would be making the decision that for whatever reasons, hunkering down for the night is a better idea than pressing on.

I've got a 3-day trip next week, a no holds barred B.U.S.T. bicycle/packraft adventure. Cell phone per person along with a whole range of emergency items that could potentially save the day but probably won't be needed, probably. The gear is important but really serves as a back-up to skills, or lack of. The trip will be in part a chance to practice skills that have to do with prevention of emergency situations. I always do alot of prep work before a trip, a stitch in time sort of thing, and it would be irresponsible of me to sit here typing when I should be looking after the details that make an outing go smoothly.

I really really really did NOT wish to initiate a cell phone debate. My point was that a phone should not be overly relied on but often is. By placing this thread in the Skills section I hoped to get some talk going about dealing with a not uncommon occurance, the overnighter survival scenario. More importantly, I hope to get folks thinking about prevention. Maybe someone would write about their "Non-Event" and what it was that kept it from becoming a full-blown rescue op.

"Idiots" are people too. Education can cure ignorance but people tend not to take your point if you treat them like an idiot. Stories of incidents are good but please remember that the victims involved are not so different from you and I.

 

[forestwalker]

One person's survival situation is another's camp-out. So, maybe step one of 'survive an unexpected night out' would be to call home and let someone know you are safe, you're spending the night and will continue on at first light. This alone can prevent initiating needless searches and justifies carrying a phone. Actually step one would be making the decision that for whatever reasons, hunkering down for the night is a better idea than pressing on.

As I said in my post: I'd certainly use it, for just that; adjust peoples expectations of when I'll be back.

I have the skill, and the experience, to do without the special kit, but also usually some kit anyway (SAK in pocket, bushcraft knife around my neck, ferriocerium stick on all keys, piece of cordage in pocket, etc) and sane clothes that spending a night or two is no big deal. That is one of the goals of all my training; being able to reduce the "must have" kit-list to an absolute minimum.

Next time you go for a walk with the dog, or just an afternoon in the park, think about your kit. Could I survive for a weekend with just what you have? For a week? Try it. Go out with some friends with really minimal kit, no fancy firelighters, no knives, no cookpot, no sleeping bag, no tarp. Just you, your clothes, with perhaps an extra sweather and a rain-poncho (which you might bring normally in case it turns nasty). You will -- hopefully -- find that you can make do, you can make a shelter, start a fire, carry the fire from place to place, find a TP substitute, find your way home, Then you have the confidence to know that it is no big deal to spend an unexpected night out. Because you have done it.

This is actually where the "challenge" courses (where BOSS is the extreme, at least outside military circles) do have a place. If you know can manage when they make you push yourself beyond normal limits (but not doing stupidly risky things!), then you have a decent chance of making it even if you have just gone down a set of rapids sans canoe, spent a night in a tree listening to a bear ripping your kit to pieces, or have had to take care of 5 "normals" in a mountain storm. Add some sleep deprivation, start out walking for 24 hours, ford a river, swim across a lake, whatever. Just make sure you are in a **** state before you start "surviving", because if you have been there, done that, then you know that you actually can do it. It is not fun in the normal sense of the word (unless you are into being cold, wet, tired and hungry; few people are), but it is how you know that you can do it under pessimal conditions. If you can start out with that, and then make a decent shelter, make a fire and get a good nights sleep, then you have reached an important point in your training.

You will almost certainly never be in such a poor situation for real, but knowing that most realistic incidents will be a piece of cake in comparison is a strength.

"Idiots" are people too. Education can cure ignorance but people tend not to take your point if you treat them like an idiot. Stories of incidents are good but please remember that the victims involved are not so different from you and I.

I agree, but sometimes one really does worry about the chlorine level in the gene pool. I teach for a living, and I have been a computer sysadmin. Most of time stupidity is curable, it is just some times one does worry. And shaking ones head in the staff room is part of the benefits.

 

[BOD]

Where would we be without those dear lovely people who get geographically challenged?

I do not know what the situation is in the UK but in Oz (or at least my state) it means practice for the SAR crews in locating lost or stranded people, in using equipment in real situations and in continually testing their procedures.

It means meeting very grateful people , who usually are receptive to the standard pep talk about how to avoid incidents in future. It means being kissed and hugged by happy women and being sent cases of beer by grateful blokes who occassionaly join up but often send in donations to the SAR services.

It also means government funding of volunteer organisations (who do the bulk of the work) and an opportunity to influence the state and local governments. It means being known to the cops, in a nice way, and there's no harm in knowing the coppers well.

It is useful to know your areas emergency preparedness plans for wider catestrophies and you sometimes get to play with cool equipment that the authorities have .

Most of all it means that usually you go home feeling very good about yourself and considering that young adults are involved in SAR as well as old crusties that can't be a bad thing.

The only downer is being called out on your weekend off or a mid night call out when you had something planned the next day because some w**ker set off his EPIRB

 

[John Fenna]

I used to run "Survival" camps for my Scouts...all they were allowed to carry was what they normally had in their daysacks for day hikes or in their canoe.
The weekend courses came at the end of several weeks of Scout-night gear chats and "exercises in 'survival'" and ended with a first aid scenario that included building a stretcher and carrying a scout about 1/2 mile out of the training area across realy rough ground.
I always chose the lazy/gobby one as the injured party...if they did not feel any discomfort at the start of their "free ride out" with a splinted leg, strapped to a rough stretcher, they did after crossing the deep ditches and the bog.....the revenge of a mis-used instructor!
Strangely enough I had Scouts queing to come on these courses

 

[Satyr]

There should be a manditory call out charge for people who use SAR teams because of their own lack of preparation/equipment. The funds raised can be invested in gear for the teams.

 

[Melonfish]

I used to run "Survival" camps for my Scouts...all they were allowed to carry was what they normally had in their daysacks for day hikes or in their canoe.
The weekend courses came at the end of several weeks of Scout-night gear chats and "exercises in 'survival'" and ended with a first aid scenario that included building a stretcher and carrying a scout about 1/2 mile out of the training area across realy rough ground.
I always chose the lazy/gobby one as the injured party...if they did not feel any discomfort at the start of their "free ride out" with a splinted leg, strapped to a rough stretcher, they did after crossing the deep ditches and the bog.....the revenge of a mis-used instructor!
Strangely enough I had Scouts queing to come on these courses

hell i'd queue for this course NOW, heh. defo sounds like fun!

 

[Bravo4]

An entirely preventable tragedy. More of the story is available here:
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Local News/Mountaintop-tragedy

In the first photo of this thread,,,
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/index.php/Forums.html
I am standing on a saddle with Santa Fe Baldy immediately above and to my left. It does not show in the picture, but I am overlooking a very steep slope of nearly 1,000feet. From what I gather, this is the crash site, right about where I am standing in the photo.

I was up there about 3 weeks ago. When I left my car at the traihead that morning it was 2 degress celsius at 0500hrs (I'm a geek, I often carry things like a thermometer and take notes). At about noon I heard the first thunderclap of the day and decided to head on back. It started to rain off and on, the high temp for the day was only about 10 degrees celsius. Two hours later on my way back down the mountain, I started to run into hikers who were just now on their way up. Young folk mostly, one couple had cotton shorts and tee-shirts on and the most miniscule of daypacks. They were soaked through from the rain but seemed to be enjoying themselves. Did you make it to the top of Baldy, the young guy asks me. No, not today I tell him. Is there any snow, he asks, obviously not seeing the small pockets all around him. Yes, there will be snow on the pass.

Next time up, if I run into some folk who are pushing their luck I might just ask them if they have ever heard of Megumi Yamamoto and Andy Tingwall. Probably, I won't say anything. Probably I won't feel like heading up there any time soon.

I prefer that my equipment can do double-duty. So far, all I can see that the 'whistle' does, is make a loud noise and yet I continue to carry one. A loud, pea-less, low profile whistle is an item I hand out as gifts to friends and family who are getting into outdoor activities. I'm a whistle-pusher. pssst, hey kid, whistle?
http://www.equipped.com/kidprimr.htm

I really like the course structure that John Fenna describes. I have thought about putting together similar program, but for adults. Evening 'clinincs' leading up to the 'unexpected overnighter'. It was alot of effort to set this kind of thing up in the army. Unpaid civilians, who's other options in life don't include sweeping the motorpool, well, it's a little harder to get motivated.

 

[Templar]

I'll second BOD's sentament here, I was a Carrot skin for a while and we just used it all as training... no big deal really, mind you I was living in North West Queensland where tourists and backpackers would get lost on a weekly basis at times, we would just suit up and go to it after a short O group...

Personally I think people need to take more personal responsibility in what they do, staying found for a start, making the correct choices and get the right mind set before getting out in the wilds... people who die in the woods are a result of their individual level of stupidity, too many of us put others thinking ahead of their own common sense, and rely too much on others coming to find them...

Laurence Gonzales's book Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why, is a cover to cover explaination of this... I highly recomend it to anyone who goes out doors...

Karl