Surprised at my own reaction

[durulz]

That's a wise man.

Give young people responsibility and trust at a young age, a little bit of guidance in the right direction, be a good example and they're generally sorted young adults.

Sort of.
The local newagent trusted me to lock up the back door when I went out on my newspaper round. And I always used to nick a packet or two of Nik Naks. Even got away with an Airfix Spitfire kit once (the mark IV. Just what an aeroplane should look like and sound like).
But I think I'm essentially a 'sorted' adult now. More or less. Kind of. Roughly.

 

[durulz]

I'll see your stanley blade and raise you a klingon weapon of war

I bet he secretly would love to give it a good swing around, doing the Star Trek 'fight' music, sound effects and all. And I bet he'd film himself, just like Star Wars Kid.

 

[novembeRain]

I was brought up in (mostly) south wales, I was encouraged to get into beavers, cubs and scouts and my dad took me and my brother into the hills regularly to practice our orienteering etc. When we reached 10 ish, we both got a knife and were allowed to use them but prefferably not take them out to "play" apart from that, we were pretty much left to it, we cut ourselves and made aa bit of a meal of sharpening them - I sharpened mine that often that the blade's shape changed! But really it's the only way to learn.

From day one I was taught "never cut towards yourself" and "a knife's a tool" that's all that's needed really.

To a "chav" a knife might not be a tool, it's something to show off with and that can include sticking it in someone, these "youthes" have a different way of thinking than any other generation have had - isn't it funny how it's come about now that there's no discipline? lol, don't get me started.

 

[crazydave]

Another anecdote to back up Mike's point.

I worked in Cambs County Council and was told how crime in the region suddenly dropped one summer. The Council congratulated themselves on the success of various initiatives - youth engagement, after-school clubs, leaflet campaigns, curfews etc.

But the figures were based on arrest rates, and the reason these had dropped (which indeed they had) was because almost every police officer in the County was working on the Soham murder case, meaning cases that would normally have resulted in arrests were dealt with by a on-the-spot warning etc.

this sounds like the way they change the way crimes are reported now. breakins are down because you ring up, report it and are given a crime number. thats it give the numb er to the insurance company and its their business, similar to bank fraud now, you tell the bank. its up to them to report it.

fpn's arent accountable either so they can raise money while claiming crime is going down.

I'm glad you left the boys alone, personally I'd encourage it as kids stop playing with knives once they start to blunt and they realise the need ot learn to sharpen. me and all my mates had folders or butterfly knives as teenagers and while happy to demonstrate their shaving sharpness we darent use them incase they blunted. no one ever to my knowledge considered using them on someone else but we did practise with rubber or spring toy knives on the playing field. I used to wind my gsl up by carrying a toy knife and offering to take the kids to do a silent killing badge

I welcomed knives on camp as I taught their use and encouraged sak's for use in the mess tent. any issues and they knew (because the I told them) that the quickest way for me to disarm any idiot messing around was to smack em one. never had to, a look was often all that was needed along with a few deomostrations of what even a small knife was capable of. chopping the knichles off chicken legs soon gives them an idea of how fragile fingers really are

 

[Minotaur]

I'll see your stanley blade and raise you a klingon weapon of war

What idiot handed one of them in, or tried to use one in a crime?

 

[MikeE]

An out of luck Klingon?????????

 

[crazydave]

now a klingon bushcraft course would be a unique niche market to tap into

 

[ganstey]

I'm glad you left the boys alone, personally I'd encourage it as kids stop playing with knives once they start to blunt and they realise the need ot learn to sharpen.

So am I now I've had time to process it. Next time perhaps I ought to go and join them

G

 

[hen]

Sort of.
The local newagent trusted me to lock up the back door when I went out on my newspaper round. And I always used to nick a packet or two of Nik Naks. Even got away with an Airfix Spitfire kit once (the mark IV. Just what an aeroplane should look like and sound like).
But I think I'm essentially a 'sorted' adult now. More or less. Kind of. Roughly.

as I said... 'generally'...

 

[novembeRain]

Sorry, my post seemed to be against these boys, good on them and those responsible for them, it's the only way to learn.

We just need to get rid of the mentality of most youthes really, bring the discipline back and sort them out - ever noticed the worst kids are those who's parents are dead against a slap on the bum or even raising their voice at their child? And those who just let their kids run riot out on the streets without a care in the world because the kids are "out of their hair!"?

Only my opinion but how's sending a kid to their room (which is full of toys and computer games) supposed to teach them between right and wrong? it's rediculous!

 

[Mike Ameling]

Yeah, "parenting" has gone out of style! And the modern "thinking/thought" on it is that the old style of "parenting" might somehow damage the delicat psyche of those little darlings. So discipline has been changed to now mean ... oppression. And rules/guidelines harm the ... creatativity and curiosity/spirit ... of those future citizens. So all that got junked.

It is sad to say, but there are many many people who should not have been allowed to have kids. It sounds horrible to say that, but with those "rights" to have kids also goes the "reponsibilities" to raise them right. Every "right" comes with "responsibilities".

The State of Nebraska is now correcting a problem they caused with the wording of a new law they passed last year or the year before. They had several cases of "child abandonment" in the past several years. Several un-wed teenage mothers ... dumped ... their new babies - because they couldn't stand the "responsibilities" associated with having those kids. It interferred with their going to school, and parties, and prom, and hanging with their buddies - but the "making the kid" part was OK. So they "dumped" their newborns at a hospital, or a church, or out in a park!

Well, the state passed a law that any mother could drop their kid off at any hospital, and not face "child abandonment" charges. It did mean that they lost all rights/custody to the kids, but no legal charges for walking away from their "parental" responsibilitis.

But the State Legislature didn't think through all the wording of it properly. People started to ... abuse ... the law right away. They started dropping off their "problem" teenagers! The very kids they were not properly "parenting". The kids go into Foster Care, and no more legal charges or responsibilities for the parents. One lady drove across 3 states (most of a thousand miles) to drop off her 12, 13, and 16 year old kids! It's now up to the State of Nebraska to raise them the rest of the way - food, clothing, shelter, medical, education.

Well, the State Legislature did change the law, and the change goes into effect the 15th. So there has been a ... wave ... of people driving into Nebraska to "dump" their kids before the deadline! And most of the kids are troubled kids - because the parents didn't actually "parent" them. And also didn't think through the 18 year commitment of having kids.

The next big problem cropping up is are all the people abandoning their aged parents at hospitals - especially those with alzhemeirs or requiring expensive round-the-clock care. The hospitals have had to resort to video cameras to see WHO dropped off that old person that has been setting in the lobby all day. And then hope they can make out a vehicle license plate to track down who these people are and where they came from.

So, besides the current crop of ... under-parented ... kids, there is another group currently growing up with more "abandonment issues" to deal with.

I have a friend who does do Foster Care with his wife. And they do take in the ... troubled kids - one of the few couples to do so. They even permanently adopted 4 of their foster kids from one family. But they ACTIVELY PARENT those kids - and their 3 biological ones as well. Plus she also does day-care during the day, including new borns. Yeah, it can be chaos in their home. But she runs a tight ship, and those kids know who is in charge - and it ain't them! You don't see those kids out hassling people in the streets or woods. Actually, they are all pretty good "campers" themselves - having grown up with it.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[crazydave]

not deliberately going political but this business about baby p and the two poor kids in manchester show how screwed up we've become about care of kids.

if i did wrong years ago and got caught by anyone I'd get a stern telling off and probably a clip round the ear before being marched off home. now they leave crying children in shopping centres as experiments and no one goes to see what the problem is.

frankly its disgusting.

rant over so I dont get carried away :tapedshut

 

[durulz]

not deliberately going political but this business about baby p and the two poor kids in manchester show how screwed up we've become about care of kids.

if i did wrong years ago and got caught by anyone I'd get a stern telling off and probably a clip round the ear before being marched off home. now they leave crying children in shopping centres as experiments and no one goes to see what the problem is.

frankly its disgusting.

rant over so I dont get carried away :tapedshut

Not true. Don't let one extreme case make you think the whole world's gone mad. That's just silly, knee-jerk, reactionary, Daily Mail-reader nonsense.
I never really know when this Golden Age of Society was meant to be. Was it sometime in the 60s? When the Moors Murderers were around? Or the 50s, when we had to be scared that communists were corrupting society? Or maybe the 40s...
Don't let one-off cases leave you all indignant and self-righteous. Yeah, these cases are stupid, but that has nothing to do with 'modern times'. Stupidity has always existed. Ask the chimney sweep kids and cotton loom kids of the nineteenth century.

 

[crazydave]

not a one off case but a general observation based on 15 years working with kids in an organisation I grew up in. and watching as a non parent the way its all gone pear shaped in society.

25 years ago I met and befriended an old bloke who taught me loads about the world and survival/bushcraft type of stuff. I was the pretentious child pestering him and he obliged to my benefit. I'm frequently in a position to do the same thing to kids who I've known for years and regard like the kids I havent got. I cant take it further and I'm not the only one (even on here from those I've talked to) because there is an instant assumption that I might be 'grooming' them. these kids are desperate for positive input and dare I say it decent role models in an age where parents come home late, are more interested in a bottle of wine and tv or playstation.

if you stop and show a child how to do something better, they learn and think its cool but onlookers are instantly suspicious.

this topic started on knives and kids - how many here have taken 30 kids on camp and actually put knives on the kit list and spent a whole weekend teaching them how to use them properly? from care and sharpening to why its a stupid idea to try and throw a sak into a tree. no issues, injuries or complaints, now i wouldn't even entertain the idea as its too much hassle. instead they are taken on county activities, given a razor sharp mora and go off to cut themselves because they dont spend enough time around sharps. I learnt about knives by making chips. mum said if I wanted home made ones then I had to peel and chop them otherwise she'd make mash

now knives are the great satan then its going to get worse as the good kids learn less and the bad kids just carry on. same as with the gun laws crime went up.

 

[novembeRain]

I don't know about a "golden" age as such but it's obvious things are a lot worse even than they were when I was a kid...........

........And I'm only 26 next month!

 

[crazydave]

there was no golden age. what people look at is the lack of press. local papers used to print national and international headlines but now cant compete so stick to local news. meanwhile the nationals are desperate for input so grab at anything.

whats missing is the community awareness. my adopted dad was a child in a single parent family after the war. when he hung around with friends he was included in the 'family' so what little he learnt about what a dad does he picked up from them. now he would probably struggle to find even a part time father figure to base any future experience on.

my old job I was known as work dad even though I was only 35 at the time because everyone came to me to chat about stuff, general troubles, computor woes and to get things fixed. many of the guys now your age used to ask me allsorts and I even got fathers day cards one year from them as a wind up

I appreciated things done for me and advice given from leaders, teachers or sgts so try to pay back in the same fashion.

mind you louise at work wanted my babies as she thought they'd be better than ones from her boyfriend and no her child isn't mine. or his by all accounts

 

[FoxyRick]

Sorry - posted in the wrong thread :11doh:

 

[Landy_Dom]

I'll see your stanley blade and raise you a klingon weapon of war

I'm imagining him thinking "wow I gotta sneak this home to play star trek with it" whilst TRYING to look all serious and disapproving for the camera

Dom.

 

[Joonsy]

when i was a kid, i and lots of other kids carried pocket knives, they were never used in an offensive manner and the worst thing we did with them was play a game of ''stretch'' (anyone remember that game), we never dreamt of harming anyone with them, i think it's a shame today as those innocent days seem to have vanished and i feel sorry for the kids who cause no trouble as they are so restricted nowadays and so easily criminalised. How things have changed, i got pulled up by a policeman for riding two on a bicycle and for riding a bicycle along the canal towpath (yes it used to be illegal to ride a bike along the canal) but always carried a pocket knife and it was never an issue with anyone in those days.

 

[Armleywhite]

Being close family friends with the recently murdered Pat Regan we know, only too well, the damage done by knife crime. HOWEVER, I have brought my son up to use a SAK and any other knife as a tool only, in the same way we class a hammer as a tool or a spade or even a car wheel brace. The wife always bangs on about him using knives and how dangerous they are, but I let him use one and learn through his mistakes.

He knows that I let him use one in the garden but would never let him "laik out" with one. Not because I don't trust him, but some of his friends are less than sensible. He is 12 and very well balanced.

Recently we went to a funday and event organised by Pat Regans family to carry on her work and promote the "Mothers against Violence" organisation she helped to set up. At the event there was a tent giving away T'shirts, etc and teaching kids about not carrying weapons, etc. The people were asking kids to pledge a life long pledge to NEVER carry a knife (obviously for use as a weapon ). My son looked ever so nervous and said he couldn't sign it. The chap looked bewildered at him and asked why? My son looked so nervous and said that, "When me and my dad go camping, walking, birch tapping etc we won't be able to do anything to live in the woods."

The bloke looked at me and the nsaid to my lad, "Were not here to stop you using a knife as a tool for the reasons you give, but to try to educate young people into NOT carrying knives as weapons" whereupon my son looked very relieved and signed the pledge.

The press cause more panic and hysteria over any crime these days, not just crime. Look at the way they are continiously banging on about the credit crunch. A constant panic made worse by the 24 hour reporting about how bad it is.