Surprised at my own reaction

[Pict]

I used to work in a mental health facility specifically for people with aggressive disorders. Everything was bolted to the floors, all food prep off site, plexiglas windows, all containers made of flexible plastic, etc. That house was the most "weaponless" environment you could imagine. We had a 1 to 2 ratio of staff on hand at all times, one staff to two residents.

One day after an exchange of words one resident stormed off to his bedroom. We heard a loud crash and he came out with a nail studded board. I had just enough time to grab a plastic kitchen garbage can as a shield, call for help and advance towards him, I made it about halfway. His target was another resident and it didn't go well. I'll leave the details out for the sake of the squeamish but stitches were required. The incident investigation cleared us as staff and the institution. Given the time frame our actions were spot on and the living environment was above code. The attacker had simply ripped a drawer from his dresser and smashed it against the floor and came away with the board at the back.

My point? I think humans would manage to arm themselves in any environment if they desire to do so. Mac

 

[nigeltm]

Hi Armleywhite,

Sounds like you have a good kid there. My daughters are 11 and 13. I got them Clippers for the bushmoot and just bought a couple of Leatherman Micras for Christmas. So they're just starting to learn that knives are tools and not toys. I only hope that they will understand and express things as well as your boy.

I think its a pity that the distinction is not made more clearly by the public/press. The reaction at the guy at the pledge tent was reasonable when explaining the distinction. Its just a pity that that is not in the hysteria fuelled by the media. The recent War on Knives feature on Sky is a good example. A lot of (understandable) emotion but no objective appraisal of the risks, statistics or the "nonhoodie" and responsible knife ownership.

Ta,

Nigel.

 

[Armleywhite]

Cheers Nigel. My Son, Sam, is a scout and I have taught him most of what I have learnt over the years. My dad always taught me to respect tools, no matter what their use was for and I have tried to do the same. He loves messing with it, whittling, shaping etc.

Pat Regan, who was trying to get the message to the wider area that it's not acceptable to carry weapons (not just knives). However, she was ironically stabbed to death by her own grandson, who had suffered mental health problems for years and the family had tried in vain to get him profesional help. The news that she was stabbed to death makes the press even worse. It's such a shame that a lad of 12 knows the difference that a knife is NOT a weapon, but a tool and the press just want to make money.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Growing up, I had friends who would bring their .22 rifles or shotguns along to school - because they were going hunting along the way home after school. No problems - as long as the principal knew and they were safely stored at the school. And they NEVER even thought about threatening anybody with them, or let anybody else "play" with them. The most they ever did was let another kid or two tag along on the hunt as they headed home.

And almost every farm kid had a folding knife in their pocket. We just grew up with them as TOOLS on the farm. Again, nobody ever even thought about threatening anybody else with them. We all just carried them - just like at home. And at recess, we would often play mumbly-peg, or that "stretch" game. The only problems we ever had was a couple town kids had their knives taken away - because they were carving into the desks! Us farm kids knew better! Whitling sticks - Yes, carving initials into desks - NO.

My how things have changed.

Now it is a Federal crime if a kid still has his hunting rifle/shotgun in his car when he parks it at the school! Or forgot a couple shells in his coat pocket! And they are even trying to take the butter/table knives out of the cafeteria. But I wouldn't trust a bunch of the current kids with anything - even an un-sharpened stick. Bad parenting, or lack of parenting, got dumped onto the school system, and they have had to change to accomidate that.

Last year, a group of parents/students at the one local high school tried to start up a Trap Shooting Team at the school. All volunteer teachers/monitors, donated equipment, the works. All weapons and shooting to take place at a private club nearby. All they were asking for was some sort of official school recognition. The uproar was deafening! You would have thought that they had proposed setting up a ... terroist training camp ... where every kid in the school would have been out shooting up the whole neighborhood! A good program got "shot down" by scare mongering!

The scary part about all this is: Nothing in politics ever just happens -- somebody MAKES it happen - and for their own reasons. So why is "somebody" making all this knife hysteria happen? And what are their ... reasons?

Scary thoughts.

If you scare enough of the people badly enough, they will run over any cliff you put in their way! Hmmm ... kind of sounds like sheep.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[crazydave]

well coming from the land of the proffessional lobbyist I cant say I'm surprised as its getting that way here with interested parties and pressure groups trying to make themselves important as it becomes addictive. people directly involved should have no say in policy as its obviously going to be bias.

singular incidences are becoming national tragedies as reporters, lawyers, politicians and even policmen try to make a name for themselves. statistics are being abused to the extent of even those doing the fiddling dont know what the true figures are.

Im not saying the nra are right but the constant lobbying they do has probably helped prevent your situation becoming as bad as ours. the way we've had our rights and liberties stripped away is terrifying as don rearic puts so well on our behalf and amnesty international keeps pointing out to deaf ears. your constitution helps but we dont have such a basic statute in our favour.

its a scenario where I think some form of national service is needed to stop the sqeamishness as people start teaching what kids need to learn instead of what the social workers and pc brigade think they should be learning.

 

[Matt.S]

We actually have a document which formed the inspiration for much of early American law, including the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. It's called Magna Carta, and has been trodden all over in the past 150 years, just like the British people in general.

 

[gregorach]

Hmphh... Magna Carta is actually a much less edifying and enlightened document than is commonly believed. Items 39 and 40 are pretty good, but even then, they only apply to "free men" (not the likes of you and me) and they're noticeably less specific than many of the other provisions. Most of the rest of it is about the protection or re-establishment of various feudal privileges. Somehow I don't think provision no. 54 ("No one shall be arrested or imprisoned on the appeal of a woman for the death of any person except her husband") is ever going to be regarded as a foundational element of an enlightened legal system...

Read it. If you're looking for an uplifting statement about the rights of man, you're probably going to be disappointed...

 

[durulz]

Yes.
And Magna Carta is written for the ENGLISH and ENGLAND - not Britain (which didn't exist as a political entity at the time).

 

[Wallenstein]

Yes.
And Magna Carta is written for the ENGLISH and ENGLAND - not Britain (which didn't exist as a political entity at the time).

Written in Latin and adapted from a document produced by a French king of England

 

[durulz]

Written in Latin and adapted from a document produced by a French king of England

Well, quite.
And written to protect the rights and privileges of the LANDED gentry!
Although, to be fair, it did introduce trial by jury, and legislate for the monarch to be counselled by peers.

 

[crazydave]

yep but nowhere does it give a man the right to sit under a tarp on a reindeer skin, wearing ventile, whittling a spoon while waiting for his titanium billy to boil

 

[durulz]

yep but nowhere does it give a man the right to sit under a tarp on a reindeer skin, wearing ventile, whittling a spoon while waiting for his titanium billy to boil

How true.
Our liberties are being infringed.

 

[Oblio13]

Well, I'd draw a distinction between guns and knives.

Even discounting intention to harm, there's still the scope for mistakes...

Then we should perhaps outlaw things that cause even more deaths than firearms, like automobiles, swimming pools, boats, stairs and bicycles.