Surprised at my own reaction

[ganstey]

This has been bouncing around in my cranium for a bit so I thought I'd air it here...

Whilst working (voluntarily) up at Westonbirt Arboretum a couple of weeks ago I noticed two boys (I'm guessing 13-15 years old) sat on one of the benches sharpening some sticks with a SAK. There was a women sat next to them with a dog lying at her feet. She wasn't right next to them but a few 'bum-widths' away. This was just outside the Education Centre where there was a family event going on.

My first reaction was; how irresponsible, why doesn't she (the woman) say something, or report them to the staff. Maybe I should say something.

And then I caught myself and thought - what a stereotypical response. Why shouldn't they be doing that? It quickly became apparent that the woman was responsible for them, and keeping a close eye on them without invading their 'space'. Their knife technique seemed to be quite good and safe, to my mind anyway. After a few minutes they'd made a nice pile of shavings (on top of the existing woodchip), put their knives away and walked off together.

I then rather embarrassingly remembered that I had an SAK in my pocket, and my Mora in my backpack (which was in the staff-only area). Why should I have any more right to carry an SAK than them. After all, I'm much bigger and scary looking than them and could probably do much more damage to someone if I'd wanted to.

I guess we all have these knee-jerk reactions programmed into us by the media, and sometimes its hard not to follow them. I was very surprised by how I reacted, and am still a little troubled by it.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
G

 

[g4ghb]

Good call G!

.....now if they were 'play fighting' that would have been a different matter of course but as they were using them as they are intended (and should be)- as tools then good on them I say.

The anti knife hysteria makes my blood boil and I can see how easy it is to get sucked into the farce if you don't use your head.

Knives are tools! - humans make them weapons!

 

[Morning Fox]

Evreyone has this big fear of knives at the moment sadly. But personally I can compare this to a baseball bat. You can either see kids playing baseball with it and having some good inspiring fun, or you can see them beating an old man up with it. The tool is almost irrelevant, only really the actions that count.

 

[saddle_tramp]

I remember my tenth birthday, my grandad gave me a folding knife, a box of matches, some string and a pound note . . . and told me to use them, not to cry if i lose them, but to replace and never ever be without them . . . he also told me not to tell me mother, else id lose the the knife and matches in a second.

Its sad that the actions of such a tiny amount of youngsters today result in media frenzys that change laws for us all

 

[reddy]

I guess we all have these knee-jerk reactions programmed into us by the media, and sometimes its hard not to follow them. I was very surprised by how I reacted, and am still a little troubled by it.

You recognised and stopped yourself from the knee-jerk reaction. You got in tune with your self, instincts and beliefs. Don't be troubled, just recognise that you were maybe starting to follow a path of thought that wasn't in tune with who you truly are, and work from there. Be happy that you recognised this.

Sometimes we need these 'sharp-shock' situations to wake us up



Guns and knives don't kill people. PEOPLE kill people . Take away the guns and knives and they will kill eachother with fists, bricks, screwdrivers, terracotta plant pots, you name it. Why are youngsters killing eachother? That's what we need to address, but hey, that's for a different forum

 

[Tadpole]

Why are youngsters killing eachother? That's what we need to address, but hey, that's for a different forum

they aren't, well not in any greater quantities than they were 15 - 20 years ago, it’s just the media has the bit between it’s teeth. but as you say thats for a different forum

 

[Wallenstein]

Well, I'd draw a distinction between guns and knives.

Even discounting intention to harm, there's still the scope for mistakes, which kids are likely to make more than adults (arguably).

If I slip with my SAK, I cut my finger (and am unlikely to hurt anyone else). A quick elastoplast later and I'm good to go.

If I slip with my shotgun, I shoot myself or someone nearby. Not so easy to fix!

So yes, both are tools and should be regarded as such, but in the same way I would be happy with my daughter using a trowel but not a JCB (both "tools" for moving earth), I'd rather let her use a small SAK than a small Glock.

 

[Morning Fox]

they aren't, well not in any greater quantities than they were 15 - 20 years ago, it’s just the media has the bit between it’s teeth. but as you say thats for a different forum

This guy knows what he's talking about. They are not doing it any more than before, its just that they are telling us about it more.

 

[verloc]

its funny as well but it's never a SAK or a Mora or a pukko or an Opinel that is in the pictures that the Police produce from the their "confiscated weapons campaign" or "knife amnesty" but in fact is kitchen knives, Stanley blades, little badly made lockers or huge pig iron £9 offa ebay "hunting" knives.

At the end of the day as has been said above - a knife is a tool and we make them weapons - just the same as a screwdriver or crowbar or fork or spoon.

The hysteria surrounding this alleged "knife epidemic" is really quite terrifying. Good on the kids and the lady who were with them for going about their business, enjoying themselves and not breaking any laws. Of course no you don't mention what they then do with the sharpened sticks?

 

[Morning Fox]

its funny as well but it's never a SAK or a Mora or a pukko or an Opinel that is in the pictures that the Police produce from the their "confiscated weapons campaign" or "knife amnesty" but in fact is kitchen knives, Stanley blades, little badly made lockers or huge pig iron £9 offa ebay "hunting" knives.

I'll see your stanley blade and raise you a klingon weapon of war

 

[verloc]

I'll see your stanley blade and raise you a klingon weapon of war

thats bloody awesome - i like the look on his face "disapproving look, furrowed brow, serious eyes" - all the time knowing "i look like a plonker".

On a practical side it's hardly discrete is it? Maybes that's the answer - ban all knives under 5ft in length? lololol

 

[Mike Ameling]

A number of years ago, Japan banned the possession and carry of ... aluminum baseball/softball bats! They were demonized as "assault bats/weapons", and the news media was deluged with stories about gangs carrying them as their "weapon of choice". The law restricted their use to at the ball field, and possession/carry by the "coach" to/from the game field. The hysteria created by the media led to a demand from the people to do something about these ... dangerous weapons. Wood bats were OK, just those aluminum bats were seen as evil "assault bats" only used to hurt people with.

In the early 1900's, New York City went through a large ... crime wave. Every newspaper had front-page articles every day about the on-going crime wave! People were afraid to go out in the streets! It got so bad that the Mayor asked the State to send in the National Guard to patrol the streets -- to stop this huge crime wave! But only one thing had changed over the months leading up to this. The one big city newspaper decided to move their reporting of all the normal police reports from the back pages up to the front page. And they decided to print EVERYTHING reported to the police. And other news sources started to follow that lead. There was no huge increase in crime. There was no migration of criminals and gangs to the city. Checking the statistics showed that they actually had a reduction in "crime" during that crisis. The only thing that had changed was HOW the news media reported it. Eventually, some of those "editors" saw that they themselves were the cause of the "crime wave", and they went back to their normal way of reporting the everyday stuff. Yeah, they had become the story.

So now the ... news media ... are again creating hysteria - this time about knives. The big question is WHY?

Every few years over here in the U.S., the "news media" goes through a frenzy about child/kid gun shootings. They trot out all the usual statistics to prove that we are having an epidemic of kid shootings. But they always leave out some of the ... details ... of those statistics. First, they count as a "kid" or "child" anyone who is 19 or younger. Well, almost all of those "gun related shootings" of kids are in that 16 to 19 age range. And most of the details of the shootings show gang/drug involvement. They also include all the deaths were the "kid" was shot while committing a crime - like being shot by the police while robbing a store or during a drug bust. But the "news media" have their own agenda, and they strip off all those pesky little details - to create their hysteria. Along with the help/assistance of a bunch of "well meaning concerned" special interest groups, of course.

Control the press, and what people see/hear/read everyday, and you control the people.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
- one of the 99.983% of gun owners in America who did not use them to commit a crime last year --- ditto the knives I own

 

[Mike Ameling]

Several years ago, one U.S. Senator was spearheading a new program to CONTROL all those evil maching guns - also called "assault weapons". During the Congressional hearings, he was specifically asked by other Senators where he was getting all his "information" about criminal use of maching guns. He blatantly told them --- not from the FBI, or from any actual police departments, but from watching the TV show Miami Vice!!!!!!!

No, they did not laugh him out of the Hearings room. But did suggest he actually talk with the FBI instead of watching Hollyweird fiction TV shows. And that he should read the 1929 Law that was still in effect greatly restricting the ownership/possession/sales of maching guns. And the statistics that showed that not one legally owned machine gun had ever been used in the commission of a crime - under that existing Law.


Funny pic - that hollyweird version of a klingon weapon. More fantasy than anything else. I'd be more afraid of someone with a Quarterstaff - who knew how to use it!

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[ganstey]

You recognised and stopped yourself from the knee-jerk reaction. You got in tune with your self, instincts and beliefs. Don't be troubled, just recognise that you were maybe starting to follow a path of thought that wasn't in tune with who you truly are, and work from there. Be happy that you recognised this.

Thanks Reddy, I feel a bit better about it now. What annoyed me most was that I get really wound up when people (media and non-media) go on about how all knives are bad, but then found myself doing exactly the same thing . Luckily I didn't have time to do or say anything before my logical brain kicked in.

Oh, and given the amount of chippings they generated, I don't think there was much of a pointed stick left

I've also noticed how knife 'crime' has drastically reduced since the collapse of the banking industry. It must have been all those frustrated, over paid, under worked investment bankers that were doing it

G

 

[Wallenstein]

Another anecdote to back up Mike's point.

I worked in Cambs County Council and was told how crime in the region suddenly dropped one summer. The Council congratulated themselves on the success of various initiatives - youth engagement, after-school clubs, leaflet campaigns, curfews etc.

But the figures were based on arrest rates, and the reason these had dropped (which indeed they had) was because almost every police officer in the County was working on the Soham murder case, meaning cases that would normally have resulted in arrests were dealt with by a on-the-spot warning etc.

 

[gregorach]

Funny pic - that hollyweird version of a klingon weapon. More fantasy than anything else.

Huh? It's a perfectly standard bat'leth. And yes, of course it's fantasy - Star Trek was not a documentary.

Always fancied one myself...

 

[verloc]

Always fancied one myself...

i can understand that - nice drop point, secure grip, am sure it will have a scandi grind with no secondary ........

 

[jojo]

Star Trek was not a documentary.

Are you sure?? But it was on TV for ages, must have been real, like Eastenders.... I don't believe you, you are trying to manipulate us.....

 

[hen]

I remember my tenth birthday, my grandad gave me a folding knife, a box of matches, some string and a pound note . . . and told me to use them, not to cry if i lose them, but to replace and never ever be without them . . . he also told me not to tell me mother, else id lose the the knife and matches in a second.

That's a wise man.

Give young people responsibility and trust at a young age, a little bit of guidance in the right direction, be a good example and they're generally sorted young adults.

 

[OurJud]

You're not alone, ganstey. I started what quickly developed into a very heated thread at another outdoor forum, and in the process got myself labelled a troll by more than one member there.
I'd read an article in TGO/Trail/Country Walking (can't remember which) about a youth worker who was 'taking the kids into the hills'. His theory was that under privilged, urban kids would benefit from such an experience. The article was accompanied with a picture of him and half a dozen teenagers (donned in tracksuits and baseball caps). Behind them were the rolling hills.

My theory was that these kids wouldn't benefit, and that a love of the outdoors has to 'be in you'. I expressed a few other views about not wanting chavs on the hills, when it's those very hills that I like to go in order to escape said chavs in the first place. I was promptly reminded that I don't own those hills and that they have as much right to be there as I do.