Suitable metal for a couple of small folders?

[tombear]

The middle son and I fancy making a pair of small folding knives, approximately in the style of the small Svord knives, well actually on the historical ones the Sbords based on.

Weve some nice wood for the scales and brass sheet and tubes/rods for any metal bits.

ive jus finished restoring some old wod planes and this involed rep,acing a omelette blade on one.

Its old Sheffield Record made. It's just under 3/32nds thick.

i've still got the drills I used to cut out the thick 01 tool steel I used for the giant Nessie project. My question is s this steel suitable for a knife and will it need heat treating after its shaped. Taking it slow I can keep all the processes ill use relatively cool, if that would help.

any thoughts gratefully taken on board!

ATB

Tom

 

[crosslandkelly]

Good idea, personally I would think the steel will be perfect, as it will be a tool steel. I'm not sure about the heat treating, I think these blades were only tempered an inch or so, up from the cutting edge. Someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly to answer your question better. Good luck with the project.

 

[HillBill]

You will need to anneal the steel before you can do any work on it... You need to heat it to nice glowing red.. and let it cool as slowly as possible.

If that metal was a decent blade.... then it should make another good blade

 

[tombear]

Cheers! Um heating it to a nice glowing red. Realistically can that be done with a domestic blowtorch? Or do I need to try and rig something with charcoal an a air pump of some sort? And when all the shaping has been done ill need to get them heat treated somewhere ?

atb

Tom

 

[HillBill]

You can do it with a blowtorch, but you would need propane gas.

You could HT with the same torch. Carbon steels are simple to do. Give me a shout when you need the info and i'll see you right.

 

[tombear]

Cheers! Propane I can sort tomorrow. What I have is a nearly empty can of butane/propane mix so it will need replacing soon anyway. I think I have a couple of firebricks down in th storage room.

ATB

Tom.

 

[tombear]

I must have gone in everywhere that sells gas in the three closest towns and none have just propane I cans That will fit on
my pistol grip blow torch. Best I could find was propane and butane mix. Are there any brands that are just propane? I even went through my camping stoves looking at their canisters but none were pure propane either.

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

Still no pure propane so we decided to see if this end of the bane blade had actually been hardened. It was well away from the cutting edge so it was worth a try. The lad took a hacksaw to the end and it cut through it very eeasily so we will bang on with the shaping . I've scratched on rough outlines and we will tomorrow centre punch for the drilled holes we will use to cut out the basic shape.

Atb

Tom

 

[tombear]

The lads currently drilling around the outline we marked about before after centre punching every few mill'. I've got this far. Sawed around the dotted line and then ground off the rough edges on the bench grinder with lots of cooling. I tided up with a power file and to save on the water wheels stone used the file to remove as much metal as I could. I flattened the sides and edges on a big diamond stone and polished it up some . Once the lad is at this stage I'll break out the Tormek and we will put the bevels on them both. They'll need a bit of file work to tidy them up then we will need to heat treat them both. As far as we can tell there's been no heat treating on the part of the plane blade we have used. It's been relatively easy to work the metal so far. On the other side you can still make out the markings on the blade, which I'm leaving traces of. The lad likes a more rustic look so isn't going to polish it as much, just enough to clean it up.

I've still not found a source of the right gas to fit my blow torch.

atb

tom

 

[Everything Mac]

Tom, if you're struggling with HT send me a PM. I'm back ashore in a week and about an hours drive from you.

We can get some time in the forge sorted if you need it.

All the best
Andy

 

[tombear]

Thanks Andy, that's very kind I'd you! We'll see how we go. Unfortunately I'm one of the worlds non drivers so it would be a bit of a haul getting over to the Wirral

ATB

Tom

 

[Everything Mac]

Fair enough mate, let me know. I've got a mate in Rossendale who I've got to go see in a couple of weeks anyway.

All the best
Andy

 

[C_Claycomb]

Butane/propane mix will work fine if you can contain the heat somehow. Have you considered a "One Brick Forge"? Trying to heat a blade up in free air with a torch is difficult, much easier if you are working in an insulated volume where more of the flame's heat isn't lost.

If you anneal, you will need to harden and temper again. Not much point in drilling hard steel if you are going to soften it anyway. If you are able to grind, and keep cool, then I would not bother annealing. You only need to anneal if you are hacksawing/bandsawing, filing, or trying to drill without carbide. If it was good enough for a plane iron, it will be good enough for your little pocket knives.

 

[tombear]

Cheers for those thoughts!

my guesstimate of the shape to work was well off but I'm about there now and the lad can use mine as a template to finish his. I've rough shaped the scales for mine as a pair on the bandsaw then belt sander.

The bevel I put in on he Tormek-7 but I ended up sharpening it so used some wet and dry to take the edge off, it will get properly sharpened at the end.

This is the first folder I've made and only the second of any type from scratch.

I am thinking of using brass rod for the pins. Would tube be easier to open up to hold them on?

ATB

Tom

 

[Baelfore]

Really interesting thread. thanks for sharing.

I'm following the progress of this with great interest!

ATB,
Ste

 

[C_Claycomb]

If tube was better, I would expect to see lots of folding knives assembled with tube. That they are nearly all put together with solid pins or screws is a good indication of which one works. You can spread a pin by hitting with with a flat hammer. To spread a tube, you need to have something tapered to force down inside it, you don't want to tear it, or buckle it. Tubes are used, but not in so many places, and usually because they want a hole in the handle where they also want a fixing.

 

[tombear]

Cool, rod it shall be.

just waiting for the lad to catch up and Anyroad I need to get the heat treating done.

Very simply put, what do we need to do? I could rig up a rudimentary hearth, I've plenty of charcoal and it shouldn't be beyond me to rig some sort of blower, even if its a POW type wood, leather and tinplate contraption a minion can hand turn. But they are two small blades and to be honest the least I need to do getting kit together the better. I may never do another blade.

atb

Tom

 

[Everything Mac]

Just use a hair drier. That's all I use.

Do it later at night so you can see the colours of the blade better. - you'll need a magnet to check it with.

So get your fire going. And stick it it. - Have everything you need ready i.e. magnet - suitable pot of any old oil. - and a file to check it for hardness afterwards. - then make sure your oven is on and ready to receive them in. - wrap the blades in tin foil and wipe them clean before you put them in the oven


This is the best explanation

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?57990-Hobbyist-Heat-Treating

As you'll see, it's one of my blades made long before I could HT myself.

Andy

 

[tombear]

Well, after a eventful year I've resurrected this thread as I've just picked up a small can of Coleman pure propane which I believe burns hot enough to do the heat treating on the two small folders.

Could anyone give me a idiots guide to heat treating a small blade using a blow torch burning propane, small words would be appreciated as I'm feeling a little dim, hopefully I'll buck up when my kebab and onion rings arrived...

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

Since found out I need a adapter to fit the can to my blow torch! Kovea do one I'd trust but it's not cheap. Probably cheaper to pick up the right sort of blowtorch head to fit on the rank at a carboot. In the past I've seen loads that tale a bigger thread than is on your standard Camping Gaz style canister. Saying that is usually fatal I know.

atb

Tom