Suggestions for a legal carry

[matarius777]

I don’t believe this though if you can produce an actual case where it happened then I will accept it.

I’ll have to have a look, I was researching what the law was, I think the butter knife came into it as in “even though it isn’t sharp, it’s still a blade, therefore, even though part of a knife (in this case, a folding knife) is not sharp, it is by definition of law, a blade. That was, I think, the reasoning of a judge. The problem with this business is, there are so many opinions of what the law says, including, now, what I said before, so it all gets confusing. It may have been the Black Belt Lawyer who was talking about knife law on YouTube. He is an actual lawyer. As I said, I’ll check up where I heard it, and whether it’s a reputable, cast iron source of information. I don’t think I would have taken it on board if it wasn’t, but nobody’s infallible!

 

[fenix]

Got searched entering a pub last weekend, put my slipjoint on the table with keys and the security guard handled it correctly with no hassle. Got it back after several pints and some pizza. He identified my knife as legal carry and just held onto it while we spent the evening drinking.

 

[Broch]

We have been around this buoy so many times ....

Other than the clearly defined banned items, there is no such thing as an illegal knife - just an illegal reason for having it where you are or an intent to use it for an illegal purpose. So, a butter knife in a box, with butter and bread and cheese in a public park is perfectly legal; a butter knife up the sleeve of your jacket in a bar would probably be seen as illegal.

It doesn't matter if a knife is fixed blade or not, if you have good reason to have it for legal purposes, you have a right to carry it. A non-locking folding knife of 3" or less can be carried without needing a 'reason' but, if you got it out in a pub and threatened someone with it, it is no longer a legal carry as your intent is not legal.

I do not believe there is much ambiguity in the law at all and the Black Belt Lawyer is quite clear about it in my opinion.

 

[Erbswurst]

And do they measure tip to handle or tip to ricasso or the length of the edge, I mean the length of the curve?

In Germany they measure 12 cm tip to handle in the shortest straight line.

 

[Broch]

As it's written, it is the cutting edge but, as that's open for debate, I would treat it as the total blade length from tip to the front of any handle. After all, from a totally logical point of view, the law is really interested in the stab length I would have thought.

Having earlier said that I considered the laws to be clear, I suppose I would have to admit to this bit being a little vague

 

[Erbswurst]

If it's even unclear for a native speaker it might be sensible to inform the responsible persons about that we don't understand it and they should clarify the point.

If they interdict parts of the existing EDC knives, they have to hand out a precise technical description to the knife makers of course, in order to enable them to develop patterns that are legal for sure. How should someone run a business if the legal frame is unclear?

And unclear laws surely don't stabilise a community.

In France for example they made such a law and totally forgot that almost everybody in the flat country has a SAK Opinel or Laguiole in the pocket because it's simply needed. They obviously were asked if they became insane and added a phrase that especially these and other traditional folding knives in usual length stay legal to carry in daily life. They legalised in a second step the usual French folding knife production as EDC knives. And most Opinel and most Laguiole knives are longer than they had in mind at first. They obviously realised that they had made a ridiculous law that had no chance to be respected in the real life in most parts of the country.

 

[Broch]

Nope, I'm happy with the laws as they stand

 

[demographic]

I bought a Manly Wasp in CPM S110V recently.
It's HK legal as the blades non locking and less than 3" (and thats actually from the grip so not much chance of misunderstanding even by the most gormless copper) and its a genuine two hand opener.

It's pretty stiff to open and has various stops during its opening/closing.
The strong backspring means it holds open well, non locking but I'm not planning on stabbing tyres with it so thats not an issue.
It's also a decent steel and makes most blades seem a bit crap in comparison. I've not snapped a knife tip since I was a kid and even then it wasn't rocket science to regrind em but this one seems a fairly robust shape. However, its not a screwdriver, a mortice chisel nor is it a prybar so if thats what whats expected from it as I suggest the user buys a screwdriver, a mortice chisel or maybe a prybar.

 

[demographic]

Oh, damn, that was supposed to say UK legal, big thumbs and no editing facility.

 

[plastic-ninja]

Plus one for Rough Ryder if you’re on a budget. I carry a RR Canoe pretty much all the time unless I’m in London, then it’s a Spydie tiny keychain jobbie. The RR Coal miner is a solid piece of kit for a user/edc.

 

[santaman2000]

As you all know I'm not a fan of most knife laws in general. that said, I agree that UK law doesn't seem overly vague (although I understand Erbswurst's question about whether they measure around the curve or the most direct line) Even with that question about measuring on mind I don't remember UK cops being overly obnoxious and I suspect that unless you're doing something to aggravate the situation they likely give the benefit of the doubt when measurements are right on the line.

I know our Florida law is definitely vague. It merely says you can't carry anything accept "an ordinary pocketknife." (emphasis mine) Obviously that leaves the question of what is ordinary? It further makes an exemption (very similar to your "good reason" exemption) for other knives if they are "the type normally used" for whatever activity. That sounds good on the surface but when you think about it, a sword is the type "normally used" in a duel so that makes the entire purpose of the law moot.