It's unlikely it was potatoes as they've always been pretty frost hardy. They were indigenous to the Andes before Columbus landed and spread over the entire New World and most of Europe over 400 years ago.
Soy Grits?
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It's unlikely it was potatoes as they've always been pretty frost hardy. They were indigenous to the Andes before Columbus landed and spread over the entire New World and most of Europe over 400 years ago.
The USDA and it's (I'm presuming here; state authority is a different matter, yes ? but the Federal Govt. has the ultimate authority ? ) guidelines are already restricting the plants that people may grow. My point was simply that since much of that appears to be to benefit commercial crops that it's a well trodden route for GMO agri business to latch onto.
The huge agri-businesses are already trying to impose restrictions that really only benefit their business, and have clearly tried to push for more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_legal_cases
That's the bit that galls every bit as much as the thought of the frankenstein gene splicing.
Fish genes in plants….yeah, that's about as likely in the natural order of things as spontaneous spuds growing on the moon.
Potatoes developing along a seashore and eventually becoming salt tolerant by natural selection (or helped along by humans deliberately choosing to re-plant only those that thrived) is another thing entirely.
Sometimes I am minded of the old adage. Just because we can doesn't mean that we should.
GE that helps increase yield, reduces the necessity for insecticides, pesticides and excessive fertiliser use is something to be applauded, but some of the practices that are making such things attainable are very questionable and really only lead to distrust.
Funny old world sometimes.
M
The huge agri-businesses are already trying to impose restrictions that really only benefit their business, and have clearly tried to push for more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_legal_cases
That's the bit that galls every bit as much as the thought of the frankenstein gene splicing.
Fish genes in plants….yeah, that's about as likely in the natural order of things as spontaneous spuds growing on the moon.
Potatoes developing along a seashore and eventually becoming salt tolerant by natural selection (or helped along by humans deliberately choosing to re-plant only those that thrived) is another thing entirely.
Sometimes I am minded of the old adage. Just because we can doesn't mean that we should.
GE that helps increase yield, reduces the necessity for insecticides, pesticides and excessive fertiliser use is something to be applauded, but some of the practices that are making such things attainable are very questionable and really only lead to distrust.
Funny old world sometimes.
M
No. The USDA's authority and the individual state authorities are completely separate. The federal agency (as long as we're only talking about livestock and plant produce) is not always ultimate. It is final regarding what may enter the country, but each state decides on its on what enters that state. Likewise the federal agency can promulgate rules for interstate commerce but the states can be (and usually are) more restrictive. In most cases, the more restrictive rules apply (at least within the jurisdiction of those rules)
An eample of an exception would be marijuana laws. (the USDA doesn't regulate it as a crop, but rather as a drug, through it's subordinate agency, the Food & Drug Administration) Many states have legalized it while the FDA still has not. Even though the federal law in this case should take precedence, in practice, it does not. They have simply ceded authority to the states.
First I'll have to translate out language difference in order to reply. For us the terms "agribusiness" and "farming" are overlapping, though not quite synonymous. By your use of the term, I expect you mean the large research companies such as Monsanto. Yes, some of their practices gall me as well, but I realize they must protect their patents. It's a compromise that leaves a lot to be desired. Indeed, I agree with you that the overall result leads to distrust. That said, almost all farmers (true farmers with at least 40 acres or more who farm for profit) generally agree with those rules. Micro farmers, growing for the niche markets, not so much. As I said earlier, even some of them agree because it drives up prices for their non GMO crops.
There's quite a lot about modern commercial farming that I distrust and/or dislike, but I've come to trust GMO as such; I'm just not sure where it will lead next. I expect livestock farming to embrace cloning within my lifetime. Imagine the predictability if every steak, every roast, every conceivable cut was the same quality as the last (without the need for the current method of artificial insemination and computerized records on every beef production operation)
If you can not get hold of Soy Grits, can you not crush the beans into grits? Or grind at low speed until desired size?
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Agri-businesses are those who supply the farmers with not just seed but with man made pesticides, fungicides, fertilisers, etc.,
Farming is a seperate thing, even though it more and more relies upon agribusiness consumables.
The big issue is that the consumers don't trust the agribusiness, do not find themselves happy with the artifically contrived products, and that is putting pressure on farmers, who are rather caught in the middle while trying to make a living.
Many consumers have the advantage of choice. Those choices have a knock on effect of influencing those who don't have a lot of purchasing power as individuals…..the refusal of American aid of wheat in famine stricken Africa because it was GE/GM sourced, is a case in point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2371675.stm
No getting away from it; GE/GMO is contentious, but then so is much of the 'factory farming' of livestock.
M
Farming is a seperate thing, even though it more and more relies upon agribusiness consumables.
The big issue is that the consumers don't trust the agribusiness, do not find themselves happy with the artifically contrived products, and that is putting pressure on farmers, who are rather caught in the middle while trying to make a living.
Many consumers have the advantage of choice. Those choices have a knock on effect of influencing those who don't have a lot of purchasing power as individuals…..the refusal of American aid of wheat in famine stricken Africa because it was GE/GM sourced, is a case in point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2371675.stm
No getting away from it; GE/GMO is contentious, but then so is much of the 'factory farming' of livestock.
M
True farming today is a matter of growing crops or livestock to fill a pre-awarded contract. In and of itself, it's an industrialized operation. yes, the methods are indeed controversial. Hence an earlier thread I posted with a meme regarding farmers. Something to the effect:
Farming. Te only endeavor where you go broke working 16 hours a day feeding people who think you're trying to poison them.
That is a good one, Santaman!
I think the problem is with the consumer. The food has to be cheap, cheap, cheap! And available year round, no blemishes, picture perfect.
Compared to my grand parents time, even organic free range/whatever, that food is far cheaper today than food was in those days.
Today we can afford to throw away produce already at the farmers level. Then at the supermarket. Then at home.
I saw a tv programme recently ( BBC I think) where they showed how much perfectly good food a farmer throws away.
One cauliflower grower wasted something like 70% because the produce was not light in colour, not perfectly round and a little bit to small or to large.
Horrendous to see.
I think the problem is with the consumer. The food has to be cheap, cheap, cheap! And available year round, no blemishes, picture perfect.
Compared to my grand parents time, even organic free range/whatever, that food is far cheaper today than food was in those days.
Today we can afford to throw away produce already at the farmers level. Then at the supermarket. Then at home.
I saw a tv programme recently ( BBC I think) where they showed how much perfectly good food a farmer throws away.
One cauliflower grower wasted something like 70% because the produce was not light in colour, not perfectly round and a little bit to small or to large.
Horrendous to see.
Many thanks for your comments and suggestions.
I used Polenta last time I made Logan Bread from the recipe below as I had a similar problem sourcing Soy Grits. This time I decided to try it, as per the recipe, with Soy Grits as they are much higher in protein than Polenta and the bread was designed as an expedition food with a good balance of protein, carbs, fats, etc. Obviously, as has been suggested earlier in the thread, an alternative protein source would likely suffice.
As far as the fruit content went I used dried Cranberries, Figs, Dates, Apple, Chewy Banana, Apricots.
And for nuts I used Walnuts, Hazelnuts, Brazils and Cashews.
There are a number of Logan Bread recipes out there. Some include
- Nutmeg
- Cinnamon
- Apple Sauce
- Sunflower seeds
- Sesame Seeds
The bread seems a bit crumbly when straight from the oven but hardens up after 30-60 minutes or so.
This link has the same recipe as below along with the following notes:
- A single serving (a 4-inch square) provides 718 calories and 10.4 grams usable protein.
- To make it even more nutritious, substitute 1 cup wheat germ for 1 cup of the white flour.
- To boost the iron content, add chopped apricots and about 1/4 cup brewer's yeast.
So, to the recipe I used...I got it from here. Also appended are the notes that came with the recipe...
Logan Bread Recipe
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following ingredients yield four 9" x 9" loaves. A single serving (4 inch square) has about 718 calories and 10 grams of usable protein to keep you on the trail.
Ingredients
- 3 cups of whole wheat flour
- 3 cups of white flour (plain, not self-rising)
- ½ cup of powdered milk (I use skim)
- 2 and ½ cups of rolled oats
- 1 and ½ cups of brown sugar
- 3 teaspoons of baking powder
- 2 teaspoons of salt
- 1 cup of soy grits (buy at a health food store)
- 1 and ¼ cups of chopped nuts (walnuts are my favorite)
- 2 cups of raisins (you could use other fruit just make sure it is dried)
- 1 cup of honey (any kind you want)
- ½ cup of molasses (your choice of dark or light)
- 2 cups of softened margarine (butter could probably be substituted)
- 1 cup of oil (I use canola)
- 6 large eggs
[N.B. 1 cup = 250 mL]
Supplies
- large mixing bowl (enough to hold at least 8 quarts)
- medium mixing bowl
- four 9" x 9" pans
Mixing and Baking
- Combine all the dry ingredients into the large mixing bowl and mix well.
- Combine the rest of the ingredients in the medium bowl and beat until mixed.
- Fold the wet ingredients into the dry and stir well. You may be tempted to add more liquid to make it easier to stir, but this is not advisable. Part of what makes this bread so durable and perfect for long hikes is that it is dry; theres not a lot of moisture in it so it doesnt spoil as easily.
- Divide it out among the four pans and bake at 350 degrees Fahrenheit (180C) for 45 minutes or until done. The bread wont rise as much as regular bread and will be dense and chewy.
- After baking let sit for about 5 minutes and then remove from pans. Cut into 4 inch squares and let air dry for 24 hours to get rid of any excess moisture. You can then store them in plastic Ziploc bags (be sure to squeeze the excess air out).
Storage, Use and Miscellaneous Thoughts
- The squares should easily last several months without refrigeration, but most people find all the bread gone within one. I have known people who have eaten it up to 6 months later! You can also freeze it to make it last even longer, though I would probably wrap it in some plastic wrap before placing it in the Ziploc bag to help it avoid as much moisture as possible.
- The most Ive ever eaten on a full day hiking trip has been five bars and that has been all Ive ever needed. Im a little heavier than your average hiker (around 300 lbs), so 3-4 bars would plenty for those of an average weight. Just make sure to keep it reasonably dry while on the trail and it will last for the duration of your trip.
- Since I started using Logan Trail Bread Ive found that deciding what foods to take on my hike became a lot simpler. When it comes down to it the only thing I really worry about now is water.
- Before finishing up I would just like to remind you how important eating is while on the trail, especially before laying down for the night. Youve got to get a good meal in you or there is a real risk lethargy and loss of coordination and you dont want that when in the mountains.
I used Polenta last time I made Logan Bread from the recipe below as I had a similar problem sourcing Soy Grits. This time I decided to try it, as per the recipe, with Soy Grits as they are much higher in protein than Polenta and the bread was designed as an expedition food with a good balance of protein, carbs, fats, etc. Obviously, as has been suggested earlier in the thread, an alternative protein source would likely suffice.
As far as the fruit content went I used dried Cranberries, Figs, Dates, Apple, Chewy Banana, Apricots.
And for nuts I used Walnuts, Hazelnuts, Brazils and Cashews.
There are a number of Logan Bread recipes out there. Some include
- Nutmeg
- Cinnamon
- Apple Sauce
- Sunflower seeds
- Sesame Seeds
The bread seems a bit crumbly when straight from the oven but hardens up after 30-60 minutes or so.
This link has the same recipe as below along with the following notes:
- A single serving (a 4-inch square) provides 718 calories and 10.4 grams usable protein.
- To make it even more nutritious, substitute 1 cup wheat germ for 1 cup of the white flour.
- To boost the iron content, add chopped apricots and about 1/4 cup brewer's yeast.
So, to the recipe I used...I got it from here. Also appended are the notes that came with the recipe...
Logan Bread Recipe
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following ingredients yield four 9" x 9" loaves. A single serving (4 inch square) has about 718 calories and 10 grams of usable protein to keep you on the trail.
Ingredients
- 3 cups of whole wheat flour
- 3 cups of white flour (plain, not self-rising)
- ½ cup of powdered milk (I use skim)
- 2 and ½ cups of rolled oats
- 1 and ½ cups of brown sugar
- 3 teaspoons of baking powder
- 2 teaspoons of salt
- 1 cup of soy grits (buy at a health food store)
- 1 and ¼ cups of chopped nuts (walnuts are my favorite)
- 2 cups of raisins (you could use other fruit just make sure it is dried)
- 1 cup of honey (any kind you want)
- ½ cup of molasses (your choice of dark or light)
- 2 cups of softened margarine (butter could probably be substituted)
- 1 cup of oil (I use canola)
- 6 large eggs
[N.B. 1 cup = 250 mL]
Supplies
- large mixing bowl (enough to hold at least 8 quarts)
- medium mixing bowl
- four 9" x 9" pans
Mixing and Baking
- Combine all the dry ingredients into the large mixing bowl and mix well.
- Combine the rest of the ingredients in the medium bowl and beat until mixed.
- Fold the wet ingredients into the dry and stir well. You may be tempted to add more liquid to make it easier to stir, but this is not advisable. Part of what makes this bread so durable and perfect for long hikes is that it is dry; theres not a lot of moisture in it so it doesnt spoil as easily.
- Divide it out among the four pans and bake at 350 degrees Fahrenheit (180C) for 45 minutes or until done. The bread wont rise as much as regular bread and will be dense and chewy.
- After baking let sit for about 5 minutes and then remove from pans. Cut into 4 inch squares and let air dry for 24 hours to get rid of any excess moisture. You can then store them in plastic Ziploc bags (be sure to squeeze the excess air out).
Storage, Use and Miscellaneous Thoughts
- The squares should easily last several months without refrigeration, but most people find all the bread gone within one. I have known people who have eaten it up to 6 months later! You can also freeze it to make it last even longer, though I would probably wrap it in some plastic wrap before placing it in the Ziploc bag to help it avoid as much moisture as possible.
- The most Ive ever eaten on a full day hiking trip has been five bars and that has been all Ive ever needed. Im a little heavier than your average hiker (around 300 lbs), so 3-4 bars would plenty for those of an average weight. Just make sure to keep it reasonably dry while on the trail and it will last for the duration of your trip.
- Since I started using Logan Trail Bread Ive found that deciding what foods to take on my hike became a lot simpler. When it comes down to it the only thing I really worry about now is water.
- Before finishing up I would just like to remind you how important eating is while on the trail, especially before laying down for the night. Youve got to get a good meal in you or there is a real risk lethargy and loss of coordination and you dont want that when in the mountains.
It rarely, if ever, actually gets thrown away. It might not be sold for human consumption, but it'll be sold for something.
No, Santaman, video documentation of food into dumpsters.
CostCo is obscene (so they built walls around their dumpsters!!!!)
Other grocery store chains are likewise guilty.
Just this year, our regional grocery stores are starting to sell off the slightly blemished produce.
I can buy a dozen perfectly good baking apples, a few soft spots, for $1.00.
Their thinking seems to be that it didn't fill their garbage bins.
Ever notice that the carrots are all straight and the same size in a grocery store? Right down to a demand for orange color.
It's a demand the stores make on the suppliers. Not even a Franken Garden grows like that and we both know it.
What's worse is that the contracts usually prevent farm-gate sales of all the weird carrots = cuts into store profits, of course.
Here in the village, there was an underground challenge to bring the ugliest possible vegetables to the summer village market.
Bragging rights for the freaks and the sales were great.
Then the summer market shut down, just before so many local garden veg crops are ready for harvest.
HA! We have an indoor market for the winter Thurs - Sat. Everything from craft supplies to donuts.
CostCo is obscene (so they built walls around their dumpsters!!!!)
Other grocery store chains are likewise guilty.
Just this year, our regional grocery stores are starting to sell off the slightly blemished produce.
I can buy a dozen perfectly good baking apples, a few soft spots, for $1.00.
Their thinking seems to be that it didn't fill their garbage bins.
Ever notice that the carrots are all straight and the same size in a grocery store? Right down to a demand for orange color.
It's a demand the stores make on the suppliers. Not even a Franken Garden grows like that and we both know it.
What's worse is that the contracts usually prevent farm-gate sales of all the weird carrots = cuts into store profits, of course.
Here in the village, there was an underground challenge to bring the ugliest possible vegetables to the summer village market.
Bragging rights for the freaks and the sales were great.
Then the summer market shut down, just before so many local garden veg crops are ready for harvest.
HA! We have an indoor market for the winter Thurs - Sat. Everything from craft supplies to donuts.
Our food supermarkets have started selling, what they call wonky fruit and veg at a reduced cost.
Farmers where up in arms at throwing perfectly good fruit and veg, because it wasn't straight or round.
We still have traditional greengrocers too, and fruit and veg comes all sizes to suit folks. What I bought for a family of four just doesn't do the elderly neighbour who likes to buy and cook fresh every day.
Even the supermarkets do a lot of pick your own £?/kg of fruit and veg though. I bought a huge bag of spuds last week in Morrison's…wonky veg
biggest blooming baking potatoes I've ever seen in that pack It was cheap too. I happily recommend it, and I'll buy them again.
I live in the Clyde Valley, there are masses of 'Farm Gate' type stalls here. Everything from eggs to apples, sausages to strawberries, spuds to plums. Very seasonal and fun to see what's available. The same type of farm sales are pretty common across the country though.
M
Even the supermarkets do a lot of pick your own £?/kg of fruit and veg though. I bought a huge bag of spuds last week in Morrison's…wonky veg
biggest blooming baking potatoes I've ever seen in that pack It was cheap too. I happily recommend it, and I'll buy them again.I live in the Clyde Valley, there are masses of 'Farm Gate' type stalls here. Everything from eggs to apples, sausages to strawberries, spuds to plums. Very seasonal and fun to see what's available. The same type of farm sales are pretty common across the country though.
M
Aye, i'm forgetting i'm a townie Greengrocer shops around our way, are a dying breed, there used to be a few on each estate, when i was a nipper.
Plenty of farm shops with in a few miles, but it's just convenient to buy fresh fruit and veg from the local supermarkets, when doing the weekly food shop.
Greengrocer shops around our way, are a dying breed, there used to be a few on each estate, when i was a nipper.Plenty of farm shops with in a few miles, but it's just convenient to buy fresh fruit and veg from the local supermarkets, when doing the weekly food shop.
Here, it was the home videos of the waste that aired on the news. Just eye-popping obscene waste. Truck loads of it.
The tide of public opinion spilled over to open questioning in the grocery stores, themselves and even that made the local/regional news.
The resulting chaos was like a fire, the way it spread. Quite funny to observe.
Now, it's all out in the open.
Discounted imperfect fruit & veg. Free fruit for the kiddies when shopping with parents.
And, if anything, the public is really happy with the new strategy in the stores.
I live in the country. I know some growers. They were getting royally screwed in the past.
Now, not even like two years ago.
The tide of public opinion spilled over to open questioning in the grocery stores, themselves and even that made the local/regional news.
The resulting chaos was like a fire, the way it spread. Quite funny to observe.
Now, it's all out in the open.
Discounted imperfect fruit & veg. Free fruit for the kiddies when shopping with parents.
And, if anything, the public is really happy with the new strategy in the stores.
I live in the country. I know some growers. They were getting royally screwed in the past.
Now, not even like two years ago.
I was talking about farmers, not stores. There aren't any dumpsters on farms. Likewise at food processing centers; tater tots are just the recylced bits that weren't good enough to sell as frozen potatoes, etc. Local grocery stores package the ends and pieces of the deli meats at half price, and even the meat processors sell cryovaced bags of bacon ends and pieces at reduced prices. Nobody's gonna throw out anything they can make a profit on.
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Here, it was the city grocery stores. I kid you not.
The farmers got stuck with no-sale contracts for their tailings. Only so much cattle feed.
The set up was such that everybody was dumping food.
I used to buy meat ends from a couple of deli setups in big grocery stores but some health regulations shut that down.
I was happy to see 8-10 different lunch meats all done up together. The ends were the best cured/smoked, as well.
I can tell you that public opinion here was a huge driving force for change, swift change and permanent change.
And, I'm pleased to say, it worked really well.
Some veg growers, supplying city stores, are just down the road from me.
Things have changed for the better. Now we have a wee indoor winter market
but they ran out of people's excess produce in no time!
If you pressure-wash chicken skeletons and screen the drippings, you can make Chicken McNuggets. Rotten Ronnie's favorites.
The farmers got stuck with no-sale contracts for their tailings. Only so much cattle feed.
The set up was such that everybody was dumping food.
I used to buy meat ends from a couple of deli setups in big grocery stores but some health regulations shut that down.
I was happy to see 8-10 different lunch meats all done up together. The ends were the best cured/smoked, as well.
I can tell you that public opinion here was a huge driving force for change, swift change and permanent change.
And, I'm pleased to say, it worked really well.
Some veg growers, supplying city stores, are just down the road from me.
Things have changed for the better. Now we have a wee indoor winter market
but they ran out of people's excess produce in no time!
If you pressure-wash chicken skeletons and screen the drippings, you can make Chicken McNuggets. Rotten Ronnie's favorites.
My parents used until 13 years go, live close to Valencia in Spain. lots of Citrus growing, Tomatoes and cucumbers. I saw once them driving truckloads of tomatoes, just piled up, the juices running and messing up the road. I asked my dad if Heintz had a factory close buy? He answered they were driving to the local dump. We went and had a look. Full of perfectly nice tomatoes and cucumbers.
I still do not understand why they can not make ketchup or tomato paste from it. or give it to cattle.
It is some kind of EU regulation.
we live in a crazy world.
Here on Island, we buy Bananas from Central America. Shipped to the US somewhere. Then shipped to Miami, loaded on our "Thursday food boat" and on o Cayman.
We are maybe 150 miles from Central America.
I still do not understand why they can not make ketchup or tomato paste from it. or give it to cattle.
It is some kind of EU regulation.
we live in a crazy world.
Here on Island, we buy Bananas from Central America. Shipped to the US somewhere. Then shipped to Miami, loaded on our "Thursday food boat" and on o Cayman.
We are maybe 150 miles from Central America.
I still buy the ends and pieces. The commissary still sells them, Walmart does, Piggly Wiggly does, as do Pick & Save, Krogers, Food World, etc. The only ones I can think of that don't are Publix, and Winn Dixie.
When I was still a corrections officer the prisons even sold the food waste scraped from the inmates' plates. The "swill" was bought by a hog farmer.
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