so what's this guy doing then?

[DoctorSpoon]

I found this image on Del Stubb's web site here.

We have two chaps with knives, one with an axe, but what is the one on the left doing sat at the big wheel like thing?

It comes from a set of images for an exhibition about spoons in Hungary organised by a lovely spoon carver called Péter Kőhidi ages ago. We have these images on disc somewhere and I will check them out when I can find it!

In the mean time can anyone enlighten me as to what he's doing?
Nicola

 

[fishy1]

Spinning wool?

Actually I think it's a kind of lathe.

 

[Twoflower]

I'd guess that he's at a lathe.

 

[Earlyturtle]

Treadle lathe? Old-school sanding belt?

 

[DoctorSpoon]

A lathe for what?? There's no wood turning waste around - that's all spoon carving waste. I think it's something to do with spoon carving. I think it's a posed picture meant to demonstrate something to do with the craft.

You've got a treadle driving a rope around a big wheel and he's holding something straight upwards against whatever's closest to him. D'you think it might in some way sand? or hone knives? or ... ?

 

[Eric_Methven]

I'd say it is a flywheel lathe. It's difficult to see exactly just from one angle, but it looks like a great wheel lathe. Same principle as this one...

Eric

 

[ANDYRAF]

Could be a poorly constructed skidoo.
possibly a machine similar to a milling machine or a sander.

 

[Toddy]

My grandpa had a smaller version of that, it was a treadle powered sander.
He had another one that turned an 18" grinding wheel too. You could fairly make the sparks fly from that one with a bit of metal

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Staghound]

Don't see why it cant be a sharpener, like so

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hand-cranked_knife_sharpener.jpg

but with the flywheel driving a cylindrical stone rather than a a grinding disk.

 

[sandbender]

We have two chaps with knives, one with an axe, but what is the one on the left doing sat at the big wheel like thing?

It comes from a set of images for an exhibition about spoons in Hungary organised by a lovely spoon carver called Péter Kőhidi ages ago. We have these images on disc somewhere and I will check them out when I can find it!

In the mean time can anyone enlighten me as to what he's doing?
Nicola

Well I've asked a couple of Hungarians and they are no wiser

Most agree with Eric, some kind of lathe.

Nice pictures, thanks for posting them

 

[Mike Ameling]

Interesting picture. The large wheel is a flywheel. It is kept spinning by use of that treadle board under his foot connected somehow to a crank handle hidden behind the one sitting person - or possibly being turned by the person standing behind.

That flywheel could be turning a shaft with a small grindstone/sandstone on it - for sharpening tools.

But I think it is a wood turning lathe. There is a method of using a lathe to turn out spoon blanks or pre-forms - either straight or with a canted handle. The straight in-line ones are pretty simple. You just turn the handle and the bowl to shape. Then split/carve off the excess wood on the spoon bowl, and carve/dish out the interior of it. To do one with a canted handle you have to lathe it it two different directions. You first set it up to turn the main outside shape of the spoon bowl. You then repossition it in the lathe to turn the straight handle. After doing that pre-forming, you then carve out the inside of the spoon bowl. It's far easier to see somebody do this than to try to describe it.

Of course, this leaves you with spoons that have straight handles - unless you leave some extra wood on them and do more carving/shaping.

So my opinion would be a wood lathe. Especially since all the other guys are carving spoons.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Toddy]

Wish we could get a look at the 'belt'. Grandpa's was made of some kind of cloth so impregnated with rosin that it was like leather. It kind of burnished things.
I do remember that though the set up looked unweildy, it was incredibly easy to get a gentle rhythm going, even for a very small child. They were very good at setting a balance those old guys.
The grinding wheel we used to get yelled at for going near, in case we toppled it on ourselves

I don't know about spoons made on a lathe, sounds a bit convoluted, but I do know that flour and feed scoops were / are.
My spoon carving acquaintance, Si, carves one out in about 5 minutes when he's working, and it's not that rough at that either :notworthy why use a lathe ?

Not arguing, just discussing ideas folks.
Nice thread DocS , good memories.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[DoctorSpoon]

My grandpa had a smaller version of that, it was a treadle powered sander.
He had another one that turned an 18" grinding wheel too. You could fairly make the sparks fly from that one with a bit of metal

Interesting! I shall do some research into that.

There is a method of using a lathe to turn out spoon blanks or pre-forms - either straight or with a canted handle. The straight in-line ones are pretty simple. You just turn the handle and the bowl to shape. Then split/carve off the excess wood on the spoon bowl, and carve/dish out the interior of it. To do one with a canted handle you have to lathe it it two different directions. You first set it up to turn the main outside shape of the spoon bowl. You then repossition it in the lathe to turn the straight handle. After doing that pre-forming, you then carve out the inside of the spoon bowl. It's far easier to see somebody do this than to try to describe it.

I've never seen old spoons turned like this, but I've seen modern ones and never seen one that looks good. Seems like a heck of a lot of trouble for a poor result, especially when you consider how fast and effective a man with an axe can be!

Not heard from him in years, but I've now got a new email address for Peter so am going to try to contact him about it. I'll let you know if I'm successful!
Nicola

 

[Dave Budd]

the flywheel is definately turning something, but whether it's recipricating or rotating I dunno as I can't see the arm from the pedal. I can't see a whell suggesting a grinding stone and I can't see a tool rest suggesting a lathe. If it had a frame around it I would say a fretsaw or drill on a recipricating fly.

It looks like the chap is holding a part finished spoon (the end of the handle looks like the one held by the lad to his right), so I wonder if it's a sanding belt. It could be a leather or cloth belt used for burnishing the spoons?

 

[Cobweb]

Its an old sanding belt!! My granddad had one just like it, took up the whole shed... I hven't seen one in years.

 

[Bushcraftsman]

its a sander ive seen one just like it on a day out at some oldy festival

 

[weaver]

Thanks for the link, I may have to build one of those. It would be great for demonstrations at the 1840's farm down the road.

I rather fancy this lathe turned spoon.

The little ebony lidded box is about 8mm D for a sense of scale.

 

[robin wood]

I have looked closely and I would not like to state anything as certainty. Here is my best guess though. Clearly the flywheel and crank are working just like those on a treadle lathe, like the one Eric posted. I am 99% sure it's not a lathe though there is no head and tailstock and I can't imagine a chuck on this set up.

So there is a small possibility it could be a sanding device. If that is the case then the belt is doing the sanding. i don't imagine at this time they had fibre backed abrasive belts like we have today. IU would be interested to know what the old sanding machines folk refer to used. A leather belt loaded with abrasive paste? that would be a good linishing device for fine honing metals but not for sanding wood. I don't think these guys would have such a fancy tool just for sharpening their knives.

I am with Dave I think he is holding a spoon in his hand and I think he is holding it against the bit of the machine that is coming toward the camera. This is a small spindle that will be rotating driven by the drive strap, the big wheel turning this very small diameter spindle will give very high speed. Now I suspect that on that spindle is a curved blade set in the wood a bit like a spokeshave and that he presses the spoon against it to take the bulk out of the bowl before finishing with a fine spoon knife. There is a small possibility that he is sanding and that the bit coming toward the camera is just a rest to give support but I think the spinning blade is more likely.

Toddy is that the Si that lives in a yurt and who's misses does felt hats for re-enactors? Good folk and yes he is a pretty quick spoon carver.