I was watching a video of the Rab zero g on youtube and the gent on the video suggested that although it was a great jacket, not a good idea to use it as an everyday jacket around town shopping etc because the thin outer fabric could tear. Another reviewer said the same, that the pertex 7d face fabric could rip easily if it catches onto things. What would you suggest as a jacket that I could use around town and on a hike that would hold up to rough use, something that I don’t need to be too careful when wearing. I do need it to be light and compressible though. Basically something with a high FP down rating but a thick face fabric. Anything out there like that?
So, shell sorted. Next is the down. What do you suggest?
- Thread starter dd786
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Hi DD, most down jackets are designed to be very light weight and packable, so they use light shell fabrics such as pertex (as it has a good resistance to down escaping). Saying that, i picked up an older Bergans down jacket with a wool shell (down was packaged in pertex and then the jacket was shelled in a wool outer), its seriously tough. My good lady has one and managed to put us in a tree after crashing a Skidoo, and hers was totally unscathed. i believe the model is the Vinje (an older one , but can still be found on evilbay). It's not a lightweight jacket, but very comfortable and warm (fine in -10, travelling at 40mph)
Montane and Arcteryx make well fitted ones. Patagonia are cheaper and quite robust, bit boxy but much liked.
Fleeces are perhaps better. Have a look at a Houdini Power Houdi. Bike 24 sell them cheaper than RRP. I have been looking at Paramo fleeces .. but don't know much about them except they are directional some of them. I don't know why I an so transfixed as they look like ... well, they don't have a lot of fashionability.
Fleeces are perhaps better. Have a look at a Houdini Power Houdi. Bike 24 sell them cheaper than RRP. I have been looking at Paramo fleeces .. but don't know much about them except they are directional some of them. I don't know why I an so transfixed as they look like ... well, they don't have a lot of fashionability.
Yeah unless you need it to pack down small I would just go for fleece
That said my go outdoors own brand type down jacket is holding up really well. Had it about three years and wear it all winter under my bike jacket and a good bit of dog walking
That said my go outdoors own brand type down jacket is holding up really well. Had it about three years and wear it all winter under my bike jacket and a good bit of dog walking
The Ran Zero is an amazing jacket, but it's very specialist with weight/bulk reduction being absolute. It's basically a really warm mid weight alpine jacket, but it's actually lighter than my ME Arete. It does that in the classic way of you can have it cheap, you can have it durable, you can have it light - pick any two. The 1000 fillpower is insanely high (it's the sort of thing you might find on PHD bags), plus an ultra light fabric, even by the standards of down jackets.
For a mid weight jacket around town, it's total overkill. Ran to very decent ones with a lower but very good specs. The Electron is a good example, and there are lots of other brands.
It's not a mid layer jacket. But Rab do the excellent Microlight (Which I probably would have got had it fitted me) or the Altus if you want synthetic. Lightweight, and fine as a mid layer if you need it, or as a jacket which you would use when you want something light to wear, rather than a fleece.That's how I use my Arete, and there are loads of similar jackets from TNF, Montane ME, Berghaus etc. You can get down or synthetic.
Frankly, I often use a cheaphish Decathlon synthetic jacket that I bought for £35 - works fine. Fleeces are ok, but they are not as efficient as an insulated jacket, and have no wind resistance, unlike this type of jacket.
If your using it as a mid layer, you don't need the fabric to be all that robust - that's what's the shell layer is for. I certainly don't use my down jackets when talking the dog - the Decathelon jacket as a top or mid layer, and probably a Barbour on top if it's cold/wet.
Go to Cotswold or Go outdoors and have a look at them, and try on the ones that look like they might work for you. The end of line and returns rail can be good value if your lucky, and black Friday is coming up, plus eBay.
Looking at Go Outdoors, they have the Microlight (probably the Old version) without hood for a £100. That's a good price, and worth going in for to try on.
Damn - double post.
For a mid weight jacket around town, it's total overkill. Ran to very decent ones with a lower but very good specs. The Electron is a good example, and there are lots of other brands.
It's not a mid layer jacket. But Rab do the excellent Microlight (Which I probably would have got had it fitted me) or the Altus if you want synthetic. Lightweight, and fine as a mid layer if you need it, or as a jacket which you would use when you want something light to wear, rather than a fleece.That's how I use my Arete, and there are loads of similar jackets from TNF, Montane ME, Berghaus etc. You can get down or synthetic.
Frankly, I often use a cheaphish Decathlon synthetic jacket that I bought for £35 - works fine. Fleeces are ok, but they are not as efficient as an insulated jacket, and have no wind resistance, unlike this type of jacket.
If your using it as a mid layer, you don't need the fabric to be all that robust - that's what's the shell layer is for. I certainly don't use my down jackets when talking the dog - the Decathelon jacket as a top or mid layer, and probably a Barbour on top if it's cold/wet.
Go to Cotswold or Go outdoors and have a look at them, and try on the ones that look like they might work for you. The end of line and returns rail can be good value if your lucky, and black Friday is coming up, plus eBay.
Looking at Go Outdoors, they have the Microlight (probably the Old version) without hood for a £100. That's a good price, and worth going in for to try on.
Damn - double post.
Have a look here: https://arcteryx.com/ca/en/c/mens/browse=insulated-jackets
Arcteryx do a lot of well tailored, light insulated jackets for a range of weathers and temperatures, as you might expect.
The Atoms are good. I have an Atom SL, and was really set on getting the heavier LT too (til I looked in my wardrobe one day and thought, maybe I have enough jackets .. but that is the only reason I didn't get it, and I am still not convinced that I wont get it yet)
I like the SL a lot. It is light, very breathable and the insulation is very warm (therefor thin), and really, you will hardly realize you have it on. Stylish too, if tech/athletic is your idea of urban chic. But for the bike, for running, hiking all that, it couldn't be better. It is for being on the move in the cold, and close fitting enough and thin enough that putting a windshirt or a gore tex over it is perfect.
The LT can be layered .. obviously anything can be layered, I suppose ... but it is for much colder temperatures (or standing around). Its a little bulkier, people who have them, they love them. Pretty colours too
You might look at the Delta fleeces too. Again, I have a couple of these and they really are spot on in terms of temperature regulation .. got a clever zip too. I use them for running and hiking, but you may think they are a little fragile for the cost. Though having said that I don't see much wear on them and I use them a lot .... maybe I just think they shoud be fragile, but actually aren't
I try not to buy heavy single pieces (also partly the reason for hesitation on the Atom LT) preferring to buy a mix of size L (for the close fit) and size XL for layering, or clothes that are cut with layering in mind
I will add that I just ordered a Paramo Bentu fleece, and will let you know about it when it arrives, if you like. But, I don't think Paramo have any pretensions in terms of looking hip. I do hope I don't get on with Paramo. That could be irritating.
Arcteryx do a lot of well tailored, light insulated jackets for a range of weathers and temperatures, as you might expect.
The Atoms are good. I have an Atom SL, and was really set on getting the heavier LT too (til I looked in my wardrobe one day and thought, maybe I have enough jackets .. but that is the only reason I didn't get it, and I am still not convinced that I wont get it yet
)I like the SL a lot. It is light, very breathable and the insulation is very warm (therefor thin), and really, you will hardly realize you have it on. Stylish too, if tech/athletic is your idea of urban chic. But for the bike, for running, hiking all that, it couldn't be better. It is for being on the move in the cold, and close fitting enough and thin enough that putting a windshirt or a gore tex over it is perfect.
The LT can be layered .. obviously anything can be layered, I suppose ... but it is for much colder temperatures (or standing around). Its a little bulkier, people who have them, they love them. Pretty colours too
You might look at the Delta fleeces too. Again, I have a couple of these and they really are spot on in terms of temperature regulation .. got a clever zip too. I use them for running and hiking, but you may think they are a little fragile for the cost. Though having said that I don't see much wear on them and I use them a lot .... maybe I just think they shoud be fragile, but actually aren't
I try not to buy heavy single pieces (also partly the reason for hesitation on the Atom LT) preferring to buy a mix of size L (for the close fit) and size XL for layering, or clothes that are cut with layering in mind
I will add that I just ordered a Paramo Bentu fleece, and will let you know about it when it arrives, if you like. But, I don't think Paramo have any pretensions in terms of looking hip. I do hope I don't get on with Paramo. That could be irritating.
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Not all lightweight fabrics are going to tear easily. A good brand like phd or rab choose fabrics that will perform for intended use. Indeed over perform. PHD is a class act who target lightweight and performance. Their lightweight fabrics are durable too. I've seen them being used day to day and for walking duties.
Off topic but I have a good tent that's made with a scarily thin and light flysheet fabric. It's on a £500 3 man tent. I have an £80 3 man tent that's a real heavyweight. The fabric is heavy but it out of the two tents I can assure you the lighter fabric is the toughest.
For packable warmth down is best then primaloft type of synthetic insulation. Fleece has its uses but tbh it's getting replaced by synth jackets these days.
I like haglofs stuff personally. I have the barrier III jacket. Not that technical but solid item.
A lot of the ultra durable stuff from Scandinavian companies like Fjallraven and Bergan tend to be not very packable. It's all a compromise
Off topic but I have a good tent that's made with a scarily thin and light flysheet fabric. It's on a £500 3 man tent. I have an £80 3 man tent that's a real heavyweight. The fabric is heavy but it out of the two tents I can assure you the lighter fabric is the toughest.
For packable warmth down is best then primaloft type of synthetic insulation. Fleece has its uses but tbh it's getting replaced by synth jackets these days.
I like haglofs stuff personally. I have the barrier III jacket. Not that technical but solid item.
A lot of the ultra durable stuff from Scandinavian companies like Fjallraven and Bergan tend to be not very packable. It's all a compromise
Fjallraven make some very durable down filled jackets.
I have one since years and it lasts well. The down will get compressed over time and lose some of the insulating properties. Mine has.
Packable? The harder wearing - the less packable.
I have one since years and it lasts well. The down will get compressed over time and lose some of the insulating properties. Mine has.
Packable? The harder wearing - the less packable.
I never used to like the look of FR stuff. I guess I thought it looked old fashioned or appealed to those harking back to the old days with rose tinted glasses (I don't think they're good for skiing, although I'm still trying to get my head around ski goggle lens colours and their suitability for different lighting conditions). Now I think they're OK. Not for me yet though. I'm not into the retro pocket look but I'm into the idea of being able to choose your degree of weather resistance through the application of their wax. They look more fashion / leisure use, well their outer layer jackets do. Trousers look very suitable for technical use in the hills. I'm seriously tempted by them.
Not sure what technical use means, but in Scandinavia they are used for trekking, fishing, in all seasons. Day trips, weeks. Cross country skiing, ice fishing.
Oldfashioned? You mean no funky colours?
For short trips up in the mountains a lot of people prefer the new stretchy trousers and clothes made from synthetic materials.
It is a huge past time to go out for an our or two into nature, and the new "thing" is to walk/trek to the mountain tops.
The main thing is that we are comfortable in whatever we are wearing, be it sail cloth and leather or the latest space tech fabricks!
I do recommend you get the clothes in Norway. Designed for the climate and activities.
Oldfashioned? You mean no funky colours?
For short trips up in the mountains a lot of people prefer the new stretchy trousers and clothes made from synthetic materials.
It is a huge past time to go out for an our or two into nature, and the new "thing" is to walk/trek to the mountain tops.
The main thing is that we are comfortable in whatever we are wearing, be it sail cloth and leather or the latest space tech fabricks!
I do recommend you get the clothes in Norway. Designed for the climate and activities.
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I use protection always when we shoot. Different lens colour depending on the light conditions, target colour.
On snow I used to prefer dark blue or dark green . Never Yellow or Orange.
The colour is a personal choice, but what is super important is that they protect against the UV, do not shatter and the frame is made from a material that does not go brittle in the cold.
On snow I used to prefer dark blue or dark green . Never Yellow or Orange.
The colour is a personal choice, but what is super important is that they protect against the UV, do not shatter and the frame is made from a material that does not go brittle in the cold.
One brilliant item we use 'up there' is a jacket and a vest, made from very thin water repellant fabric, filled with down or synthetic stuff. Has the look of the" Michelin man", you know, those filled tubes.
They pack into the own pocket. Very comfy.
We carry those with us everywhere. Our models have a little clip so you attach it to your belt when not in use.
Not sure if you can get those in UK?
They pack into the own pocket. Very comfy.
We carry those with us everywhere. Our models have a little clip so you attach it to your belt when not in use.
Not sure if you can get those in UK?
I have the berghaus Ramche its a superlight, very warm and wind proof for what it is but as mentioned face fabric seems delicate so fine for open ground and as a mid layer if I think there a chance of skagging, I have been on a few hikes with it and used it with a 30l pack. I have been in a shop selling jackwolf kit looked to have a fairly thick face fabric.
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I was looking at another Berghaus jacket with the reflective mesh - have you noticed any difference?
In many ways, the Ramche seems a similar philosphy to the Zero - high fill power and very lightweight fabric. Looking the UltraLightOutdoor website, there are a number like them.
Hard to gauge, this is my first down jacket, but as soon as I put it on I could feel trapped heat coming back at me, it feels really odd how something so light can work so well. But yes your right the Ramche is a superlight, I got it as a mid layer but if I don't press it too hard it works as a jacket, see what you can dig up about the face fabrics, the 7d that berghaus use is said to rate well but compared to what?
The mesh thing sounds interesting, although I did think about those old 'space age' reflective sleeping bags from years back!
Thinking about it, the Ramche, the Rab Zero and other similar ones are in many ways 'superlight', as you say, but look like midweight jackets, but are pushing to perform like heavier duvet jackets!
The review I read of the Ramche on UK Climbing was that the fabric was actually tougher than it looked, although the reviewer was also wondering what Berghaus compared it with when they made their claims. The reviewer loved it, which i what I'd expect. I must admit that I would like something a bit more mid weight, but its something that might have to wait until a bargain turns up!
I was considering more mid weight myself, but I was after a mid layer mostly so y'know the baulk would be an issue, I took a gamble in getting it but I'm not disappointed at all, I'm still surprized by it!, the reflect mesh makes me think of those silver blankets, I'm sure there is something to it and I did take a costal walk with a brisk cutting wind coming in, and it was just great with no more than a shirt base layer, still not sure about the face cloth but I hope it will be good with more use of my light pack as I'm becoming more fond of using it as a jacket, but it has to be of use and hold up to that use!, so I'll have to get a review going at some point I guess.
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