Smaller carving axe

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Peat

Forager
Aug 29, 2008
178
0
West country
You could also pick up a small head or an old axe on evilBay and re-handle it to suit. There are loads of nice old Kent pattern axes going.

That'd be my advice too. The kent pattern makes a great carving axe - long, straightish edge, quite thin, and comes in a variety of different weights. And theres load of old ones about. Can probably find one cheaper in a local junk shop that ebay though. I've almost finished rehandling one in boxwood (thats been a slog I tell you), which should hopefully last me forever.
 

Huon

Native
May 12, 2004
1,327
1
Spain
That'd be my advice too. The kent pattern makes a great carving axe - long, straightish edge, quite thin, and comes in a variety of different weights. And theres load of old ones about. Can probably find one cheaper in a local junk shop that ebay though. I've almost finished rehandling one in boxwood (thats been a slog I tell you), which should hopefully last me forever.

Junk shops and car boot sales would be the way to go if you have time. That said, evilBay is still worth watching. I've bought several there and my favourite so far cost less than a fiver. Even after P&P the total was still well under £10. This is pretty good for a lovely little Elwell.
 

heath

Settler
Jan 20, 2006
637
0
45
Birmingham
Junk shops and car boot sales would be the way to go if you have time. That said, evilBay is still worth watching. I've bought several there and my favourite so far cost less than a fiver. Even after P&P the total was still well under £10. This is pretty good for a lovely little Elwell.

I'm a bit of a car boot addict and i do have few kent pattern axes, they are nice, but the ones i have, i find to be a bit thin (wrap-around type) and i also find that the edge is a bit straight. I really like the curved, upswept toe of the gb carving axe, that's one of the things that appeals with the svante djarv axe, especially the little viking axe.
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
...I have a GB carving axe, which is great, but if I'm honest I don't have the strength to use it for a long period of time. . ...

Interesting that you find the GB Carving a bit heavy. A comment on Robin Wood's axe page made me think he would like the option of having that axe available in lower weight. Using a regular 2lb hatchet at the weekend quickly became hard work (and I'm quite burly fellow). You could always sell off the GB Carving or some of the less used parts of your collection on ebay. A lighter version of the GB Carving (say rough 1.5lb e.g. 1lb 8oz- 1lb 14oz head?) sounds like it might appeal to several of us.
 
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ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
Although the Gransfor's carving axe looks very cool and is designed specifically for carving, I notice most/many carvers also use a smaller hatchet too (often another brand or Gansfor's small forest axe/Wildlife axe or the diminutive Kubben, mentioned above).
e.g. http://www.woodlandcraftsupplies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_4

I wondered if any carvers are using, or have tried, the Gransfor's Carpenters axe - it looks to me like it might be very good for carving?
e.g. http://www.greenwood-direct.co.uk/default.cfm/loaddoc.215
 

Ian S

On a new journey
Nov 21, 2010
274
0
Edinburgh
Carpenter's axes tend to have very straight cutting edges.

The Gransfors carpenter's axe is designed to be used in dry wood, and is designed to be used almost as a heavy knife or a big chisel. Probably good for timber framing or traditional boatbuilding.

I know one member here has a Husqvarna (made by Wetterlings) carpenter's axe, and he likes it a lot, but I don't know what he uses it for.

The HK axe confuses me....it looks to have a curved cutting edge, which could be a more general purpose design, or it could be for carving.

Cheers
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
I like the look and specification of the Husqvarna/Wetterlings carpenters' axe. It's smaller than the GB Swedish Carving axe but still quite substantial (i.e. not a small hatchet).

Not sure if you saw my other posts this morning, I'm struggling to get to grips with which side-grinding a right-hander carver should get with the GB Swedish Carving axe, having found two good but contradictory views. This is like the dilemma that faces purchasers of baitcasting reels (left handed or left-hand wind, and is that with reel up or reel down!) - and I am beginning to think the correct answer may be similar:
a) it depends on personal preference (you can make anything work if you try long enough!) and situation
b) right-handers should normally use the "left-hand" model :D (actually left-wind for the reel, left-side bevel for the carving axe).
But, as ever, I might be completely wrong on that. ;)
 

Ian S

On a new journey
Nov 21, 2010
274
0
Edinburgh
Not sure if you saw my other posts this morning, I'm struggling to get to grips with which side-grinding a right-hander carver should get with the GB Swedish Carving axe, having found two good but contradictory views.

I have, and replied to.

This is like the dilemma that faces purchasers of baitcasting reels (left handed or left-hand wind, and is that with reel up or reel down!) - and I am beginning to think the correct answer may be similar:
a) it depends on personal preference (you can make anything work if you try long enough!) and situation
b) right-handers should normally use the "left-hand" model :D (actually left-wind for the reel, left-side bevel for the carving axe).
But, as ever, I might be completely wrong on that. ;)

Big disagreement here, as posted on the other thread. Right handers should use a symmetrical grind or a right hand grind. A left hand grind will not be optimum as explained in the other thread....

Incidentally if by baitcasting reels you mean a multiplier, I used to use right handed (winding gear on the right side) reels as well.
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
Thanks, Ian. Apologies, I spread that question around a bit. I just read your other response. Thank you :)

I am actually somewhat ambidextrous with respect to fishing reels, as I child I accidentally bought a left-handed fixed spool reel as my back-up/for a second rod - so I typically fished with one of each (possibly the source of my current anxiety! :D). Many reels these days allow you to put the handle on either side, so not such an issue. I keep the fishing rod in my right hand: always cast with my main arm (right) and leave the rod in that hand for reeling in (left-hand wind). So I am guessing that you also cast with your right arm but switch the rod to your left hand to reel in. I guess neither is right or wrong, I have a friend in Guernsey that does that too (I've seen it done both ways in baitcasting videos on youtube :D).

Not sure if it is the same with multipliers (I don't use one) but with baitcasters, the reel typically sits on top of the rod during casting and retrieval - consequently baitcasting rods come in 3 designs: those intended for baitcasting reels on top (often with trigger grips & smaller rings), those for fixed spools underneath and those that claim to work ok either way.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
Good to see this discussion. I like cheap but good tools and also good craftsman made tools. I have not tried the Karlsson or Djarve axes though I did once fall in love with a Djarve broad axe which was out of my budget and have never had a Karlsson tool which was less than sublime. They are all expensive though.
I find folk get on well with the GB wildlife hatchet, I found the Cegga too thin for the sort of carving work I do but a couple of folk on courses loved them so I let them go. I think the carpenters axes tend to be too long handled and too straight edged to be perfect carvers.
I do love the upward point on the carving axe and miss it on smaller axes, if you have a grinder and skill you can create that from a thick Kent pattern. Of the bunch of smaller axes I use mostly GB wildlifes and various old Elwells, Brades etc but if I was buying today I would definitely give the Husqvarna hatchet a go, looks very close to wildlife but at very good price.
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
...I like cheap but good tools and also good craftsman made tools. I have not tried the Karlsson or Djarve axes though I did once fall in love with a Djarve broad axe which was out of my budget and have never had a Karlsson tool which was less than sublime. They are all expensive though.
I find folk get on well with the GB wildlife hatchet, I found the Cegga too thin for the sort of carving work I do but a couple of folk on courses loved them so I let them go. I think the carpenters axes tend to be too long handled and too straight edged to be perfect carvers.
I do love the upward point on the carving axe and miss it on smaller axes,...the Husqvarna hatchet a go, looks very close to wildlife but at very good price.
Decided to take the plunge & order a GB carving as my main/big axe - gulp. However, I recently found a cheap small hatchet that has a curved face and that upward curve extending above the top, viking-style. Top brand (it says something about Lidl & China in Polish, I think :D). I haven't tried it for carving yet, it came very blunt but I finally got an edge on it this weekend. I am quite hopeful. It is a little smaller than I hoped/expected (I already have a very small Kent pattern that is too light for all but the most delicate tasks) - it has a 600g head (the weight is stamped on it) but it is thankfully between my two existing hatchets in size and weight, so hopefully "just right" as Goldilocks might say. I thought the design rare but have started seeing this design all over the place now (new and "vintage" axes) - in slightly different weights too, including a 700/750g one. Here it is:
$(KGrHqR,!pQE8WmvsvgEBPFqwdOErQ~~60_12.JPG


Husqvarna hatchets for comparison:
http://www.radmoretucker.co.uk/category/Axes/product/Husqvarna_Hatchet/
http://www.abbeygardensales.co.uk/hand-tools/axes-and-splitting-mauls/showitem-EL-576926401.aspx
31EoAgi9UiL_SL500_AA300_1323936435.jpg
ha505694507.jpg


As Ian noted, the Hans Karlsson/HK carpenter's axe is curved (and might even have a bit of an upward curve), unusual for a carpenters axe perhaps aimed at carvers? Really lovely, apart from the price :(, as you say:
http://www.woodlandcraftsupplies.co...id=200&zenid=1d6dac043b5653c8505d8e40d226401a
snickaryxa-a.jpg


Not familiar with Cegga but I had assumed thinner was better for carving, so that it a useful insight. In 2 or 3 comparisons I have seen between Gransfors axes with a, usually cheaper, alternative (there are quite a lot of comparison out there now), the Gransfor blade is always a little slimmer - and they generally perform v. well, of course.

Reading other threads, apparently the Husqvarna hatchet was v. good value and made by Whettling but recently Husqvarna switched to another maker and it doesn't seem to be as good/as good value (sounds like it was at Husqvarna's instigation rather than Whettlings :(). So may be worth checking out Whettlings. I was quite taken by the Husqvarna carpenters axe too - although hopefully won't need one now - but presumably that is no longer made by Whettlings either, but here is Husqvarna Carpenter's & the Whettling equivalent product too:
http://www.radmoretucker.co.uk/category/Axes/product/Husqvarna_Carpenters_Axe/
Zimmermannsaxt_H4100147_large1309354406.jpg


https://www.rutlands.co.uk/hand-tools/axes-&-mauls/cutting-axes/31EX10020C/carpenters-axe
31EX10020C.jpg


For completeness and comparison, here is the GB carpenters axe:
http://www.greenwood-direct.co.uk/default.cfm/loaddoc.215
465%20Carpenters%20615.jpg
 
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ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
I tried both my GB carving axe and my sharpened Lidls/China "mini-viking" hatchet, finishing off a spoon where I had already switch from axe to knife. There was still too much wood left. The sharpness of the carving axe gave me confidence to attempt some quite delicate, precise wood removal and it acquitted itself with aplomb. Very pleased, and I am loving the right-hand asymmetric grind - as it give me a clear idea of where the blade is heading. I was about to attempt a couple of more marginal/dangerous cuts but the keeness of the blade made me think twice - like a chainsaw, the danger focuses the mind, thankfully.

The Lidls/China mini-viking hatchet help remove a couple more close cuts - it worked really well. I think it could be even better if it was (a) even sharper, like the carving axe and (2) had a similar asymmetric grind to the carving axe. I've already spent about 2 hours sharpening this sucker, so future sharpening/grinding/shaping will now be gradual. Hopefully I won't need to use the "big guns" of the mill b@stard file and the second cut file on it again - but you never know. (My brother reckons gunsmiths used to have to file a perfect cube as a filing exercise - so perhaps a useful skill to acquire but one that demands considerable practice to do well.)

RE. sharpening the axes. I went into town yesterday (a rare occurrence) :). I bought some el cheapo but large diamond stones (£8 for a set of 3 in a plastic bench box), some wet and dry paper, glue and a rubber sanding block. So I will be trying British Red's sharpening techniques [see: excellent sticky thread on sharpening]. I've also made a strop from an old, hole-filled pair of the red pig-skin gauntlets that I use for carving and with my chainsaw. I glued this suede to a flat piece of wood, Ben Orford -style, and covered it with grind/polishing/AutoSolv pastes. I use this strop on my blades when I swap knives when carving and it seems to help (at least it reassure me that the blades remain sharp).
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
Update: I've used both axes more since the above post, to carefully remove more from the outside of my bowl - the ends & bottom were still rather thick. Still very pleased with both axes. The Gransfor carving axe is, unsurprisingly good for cutting and planing. I just strop it with Autosolv currently, it is still very sharp but I think it has lost that shaving sharpness it had when it first arrived. Wondering how best to maintain that original edge, without overdoing it -- will try grinding paste on the strop next (maybe I should get a high value Japanese waterstone, 4000-8000?).

More surprising is how well the little Lidl axe fits in when more delicacy is required -- for example, as the bowl sides get thinner and a breakthrough into the inside becomes a real possibility with the bigger carving axe. It is significantly lighter than the other axe (600g vs.900g) and so comes readily to hand when the other feels too big/heavy. The more symmetrical bevel allows me to turn the edge out while cutting too (although I plan to grind it asymmetrically over time to become a little more like the carving axe). I have taken to using the same techniques that the carving axe "teaches you"/encourages with the small axe (choking up, shaving, etc.). As the Lidls axe was cheap & sharpened by a neophyte (me), I'm not at all concerned that I might ruin the existing edge/bevels (in fact my first task was to remove the ones it arrived with) and so I happily grind & strop away at it after each use, for sharpening practice - consequently it is getting sharper with use :) (but probably weight less than 600g now). It is hard to believe sometimes that this little axe was sold in Lidls for less than £5 (made by oppressed communists), while the carving axe is now selling for 15x that, £70-85 (made by free Vikings ;))! Both offer excellent value in their own way.

Surprised we don't see more Russian axes around.
 
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ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
Have you thought about the Svante Djarv Little Viking axe? I'm toying with the idea of getting hold of one of them having seen Jogge Sundqvist use one on his bowl/spoon carving DVD. It seems like a good, lighter weight alternative to the GB Carving axe which I love.
I don't think Jogge is using the Svante Djarv Little Viking axe in the DVD - I just compared images as I too liked the look of the axe he used (which might be from the N. Carolina workshop, where the DVD was shot, rather than his own?). To me it looks much more like the Woodcraft Carving axe mentioned in a .PDF here but apparently that is no longer available from www.woodcraft.com :( - the axe head looks the same although the handle looks different (the Woodcraft axe & adze both have a prominent knob at the end). The Little Viking looks somewhat broader between the handle and the cutting edge/bit and the beard is a little more conservative, the handle a little shorter/thicker. Similar idea though.
http://outdoors.magazine.free.fr/spip.php?article333 Carving Swedish Woodenware: With Jogge Sundqvist Svante Djarv Viking Axes (Little Viking axe on right)
Sweed_ax_sm-82ca4.jpg
51u77QOCT8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
vikingayxor.gif


Not sure why this traditional (viking/Swedish/bearded) style of axe is so hard to find/expensive (the Svante Djarv Viking Axe lists at a whopping £245 here, although the small model is considerably cheaper at a still whopping £175). In the article mentioned above, the author mentioned getting his Woodcraft axe discounted at just $82 (that's dollars, not pounds - probably about £39 back then) - lucky him! I reckon they might sell well at that price in the UK now.
BTW You can buy Svante Djarv axes (and others) here: http://www.woodlandcraftsupplies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_4
 
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ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
BTW my cheap Lidl's axe, shown in earlier post above (apparently under £5 in Lidl originally) is now very sharp, I've even put a wider-bevel on the left-hand side - like my right-handed Gransfor carving axe. I've also copied some other features: I roughed up the handle with a very coarse rasp, oiled it lightly (with raw linseed oil) and drilled a hole in the handle for a leash. It works remarkably well, far better than I dared hope. I use it as much as the Gransfors carving axe - it's really good and fills the gap between the quite heavy carving axe and the larger carving/draw knife i.e. they have separate, distinct, complementary roles, although there is naturally some overlap in capability. The carving axe removes lots of wood quickly and its right-hand bias makes its cuts predictable and straight (e.g. good for shaping the outside of bowls quickly), it can deal with tougher cutting jobs yet it can do detail; the Lidls axe is smaller, lighter and better where care is required to avoid taking too much wood off (e.g. good for shaping spoons), it is less fatiguing. Both axes can be used to plane wood off.
 
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heath

Settler
Jan 20, 2006
637
0
45
Birmingham
The woodcraft axe you're referring to is made by swedish smith stefan ronnqvist (i think). Apparently they're very good,mi know peter follansbee uses one and they are also mentioned in one of robin woods blogs. They're also seen in the wonderful, celebrating birch book. Country workshops used to sell them, but i don't think you can get them anywhere now. I've considered contacting a smith to see if they could make something similar. I think the reason for the difference in the handles is that they were sold as heads only.
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
This came up on the Bodger's forum slightly ahead of my most recent posts above: http://www.bodgers.org.uk/bb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2328&p=17973#p17973 (Peter Follansbee posted to the thread - he was present at the shooting of the DVD and also owns such an axe).

It is indeed a Stefan Ronnqvist axe and they are, sometimes, available from Woodland Craft Supplies in the UK. Apparently expensive :( and expect to carve your own handle :). I guess we'd all like one and Stefan can only make so many, presumably by hand. Perhaps somebody at Gransfor Buks (or Whettling or Hansfor Buks...or Spear and Jackson :) or some entrepreneur in Sheffield) should do a deal with Stefan and/or Jogge - or come up with their own variant e.g. a lighter (~1.6lb/700g?), more radically bearded & upswept version of their classic Swedish Carving axe/a traditional/historical viking Skeggox. Or perhaps Stefan will take on apprentices? Get the price right and we'll be queuing up for them :).
 
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