Skeleton Tangs

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mmc1

Member
Feb 23, 2006
29
0
59
Al US
cant see a big problem probably as much if not more metal than a stick tang i would however have rounded the corners on the front hole more



ATB

Duncan

Yeah I agree . Would you call these full tangs though?
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
if you are planning to shoot, crush or blow up your knife or mabye your super strong and can bend steel with a log or your hands id say a full tang may be slightly stronger.

But if your like everyone else, it will be practicaly indestructable and more balanced than a full tang.
 

mmc1

Member
Feb 23, 2006
29
0
59
Al US
..... id say a full tang may be slightly stronger.

I'd say a full tang would be alot stronger. Now if it would be better would be open to debate. I seen a couple of stick tangs break,granted they were using improper batoning technique but they broke just the same. I'm with FYGT I don't like the square corners on the front more of a radius would have been stronger.
 

PeterHW

Forager
Dec 31, 2005
116
0
U.K.
I think strength depends on the manufacturing process....just as much as the inherant strength from a "design"...

Knives made of the same steel are stronger/weaker depending on things like heat treatment...and how much heat was allowed into the steel on stock removal...

Bark River have a good name and a lifetime warranty....so it will be a strong knife.

If you look at knives used as prybars...a Dumpster Mutt from Scrapyard knives is a good example...it has a stick tang...as do all their knives...and the lateral bending tests done on these is pretty amazing and way beyond normal use...

In comparison the Chris Reeves knives with full tangs like the Green Beret did'nt do too well on a Noss test...some say it only shows hitting hardened metal with a metal hammer is the wrong thing to do...others point to the other knife makers which survived this and a whole lot more heavy abuse...

I believe though that there is a Bark River test done by Noss...so that should answer your question....the web site will show if you google "knifetests.com"...

Note that I am not saying I support destructive knife testing....threads on this topic all seem to get "heated"...
 

Boreas

Member
Jul 3, 2009
16
0
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
I personally own a bark river aurora knife and use it as my main woods knife. I've used that knife for everything that a knife should ever be put through, Including the mors kochanski strength test where the knife is driven into a tree tip first and you use the handle as a step ladder rung.

While I agree that a full tang knife is probably stronger, My knife, which is another of bark rivers skeletonized tangs has superb balance just behind the blade and the weight is just about all I would want in a knife. I think a full tang would be unbalanced and clumsy in comparison on a knife this size.

Tests that I've read about knife breakage actually show that knives will more likely than not break right at the point where the blade meets the handle. During hard use like batoning cross grain through wood. This happened due to the brittleness of the temper, not handle weakness. Full tang, Stick tang, or otherwise.

That being said I think that mostly it comes down to preference. I have an aversion to using stick tang knives, because the fulcrum point is going to be right where the tang is inside the handle when pressing down. I worry that the handle material could break at that point. Some long time full tang users might have similiar thoughts on skeleton tangs. I think though that most of these are in our respective heads. A knife handle will rarely if ever break under normal use, and even then what will break (second hand knowledge) is the actual steel rather than the handle.

So whatever floats your boat, but Bark river knives are the best knives that I have ever used and would trust the skeletonized tang and handle scales under any foreseeable circumstance. I could go on about A2 vs O1 or scandinavian vs convex but I won't.

And I think I'll call an end to this rant.
 

mmc1

Member
Feb 23, 2006
29
0
59
Al US
I personally own a bark river aurora knife and use it as my main woods knife. I've used that knife for everything that a knife should ever be put through, Including the mors kochanski strength test where the knife is driven into a tree tip first and you use the handle as a step ladder rung.

While I agree that a full tang knife is probably stronger, My knife, which is another of bark rivers skeletonized tangs has superb balance just behind the blade and the weight is just about all I would want in a knife. I think a full tang would be unbalanced and clumsy in comparison on a knife this size.

Tests that I've read about knife breakage actually show that knives will more likely than not break right at the point where the blade meets the handle. During hard use like batoning cross grain through wood. This happened due to the brittleness of the temper, not handle weakness. Full tang, Stick tang, or otherwise.

That being said I think that mostly it comes down to preference. I have an aversion to using stick tang knives, because the fulcrum point is going to be right where the tang is inside the handle when pressing down. I worry that the handle material could break at that point. Some long time full tang users might have similiar thoughts on skeleton tangs. I think though that most of these are in our respective heads. A knife handle will rarely if ever break under normal use, and even then what will break (second hand knowledge) is the actual steel rather than the handle.

So whatever floats your boat, but Bark river knives are the best knives that I have ever used and would trust the skeletonized tang and handle scales under any foreseeable circumstance. I could go on about A2 vs O1 or scandinavian vs convex but I won't.

And I think I'll call an end to this rant.

:Wow:Wow wasn't talking about Bark River specifically just skeleton tangs in general.
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
i dont see how it could break under normal use. 9/10 times a stick tang breaks, its the blade not the tang that fails. the handle may somtimes split due to an inperfection in the handle material.
a rivited tang wont fail under normal use.
 

mmc1

Member
Feb 23, 2006
29
0
59
Al US
i dont see how it could break under normal use. 9/10 times a stick tang breaks, its the blade not the tang that fails. the handle may somtimes split due to an inperfection in the handle material.
a rivited tang wont fail under normal use.

Actually stick tang knives breaking at the tang while batoning is not all that uncommon especially if you are not using proper technique. Now I'm not talking about soft wood but hard wood like oak or hickory that requires some serious batoning.


This explains it pretty well.


http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf
 
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Graham_S

Squirrely!
Feb 27, 2005
4,041
65
50
Saudi Arabia
I see this sort of thing, And I think 5% materials failure/95% poor technique.
Wedges are not hard to make, and are a far better method of splitting than battoning a knife blade all the way through a log.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,137
2,878
66
Pembrokeshire
IMHO battoning through realy tough wood is an abuse of most knives - and easily avoidable!
OK batton through athe odd bit of kindling - but if you need to put enough force into battoning that any kind of tang - even the ones on cheapo "Rambo" hollow plastic handled carp - then it is easier and more efficient to cut a hardwood wedge (even a simple hazel rod sharpened to a chisle point) and belt that into the wood to be split instead of your kife.
Knives are designed to cut, not be second rate wedges.....

Sorry - a bit of a rant there.....
 

mmc1

Member
Feb 23, 2006
29
0
59
Al US
IMHO battoning through realy tough wood is an abuse of most knives - and easily avoidable!
OK batton through athe odd bit of kindling - but if you need to put enough force into battoning that any kind of tang - even the ones on cheapo "Rambo" hollow plastic handled carp - then it is easier and more efficient to cut a hardwood wedge (even a simple hazel rod sharpened to a chisle point) and belt that into the wood to be split instead of your kife.
Knives are designed to cut, not be second rate wedges.....

Sorry - a bit of a rant there.....

I don't think that batoning through 3 or 4 inch hardwood is abuse of a knife and it's something that I regularly do when out in the woods. And all of the makers that I purchase from doesn't either. I see a lot of folks in videos batoning through half rotten wood and soft pine that you could almost push your knife through. Which that is fine if you need that particular wood but I don't think its a measure of that knife.
Batoning if done correctly is certainly not abusing a well made knife.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,992
4,645
S. Lanarkshire
I batton timber frequently, but like Graham and John say, use a wedge too.
Makes sense.
Most of the stick tangs I've seen that have broken were just where the handle started, and in every case it was poor technique that got them.
I can't see a skeleton tang being any less strong unless so badly designed that it's been hollowed out to oblivion.........like some of the *survival* knives :rolleyes:


cheers,
Toddy
 
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mmc1

Member
Feb 23, 2006
29
0
59
Al US
I batton timber frequently, but like Graham and John say, use a wedge too.
Makes sense.
Most of the stick tangs I've seen that have broken were just where the handle started, and in every case it was poor technique that got them.
I can't see a skeleton tang being any less strong unless so badly designed that it's been hollowed out to oblivion.........like some of the *survival* knives :rolleyes:


cheers,
Toddy

I agree both of the failures that I have seen were from poor technique. One guy was pushing down on the handle of his knife while striking the tip and it just snapped.
I've never use a wedge on 3 or 4 inch stuff but have on larger logs.
As to skeleton tangs my preference would be more along the lines of an Enzo Trapper.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,992
4,645
S. Lanarkshire
Wedges are easy. Just a slice of timber slipped into a cut and then batton that down. It's simpler than hitting the knife .

I started a thread a while back showing me using a Helle Polar to turn a chunk of pine into kindling. The knife started every cut, but it was usually the wedge that split the timber.
I think I've only got two knives that have 10cms / 4" or longer blades though.
If I want anything any bigger I find a billhook or a machete.
Personal choice really.

cheers,
Toddy
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,992
4,645
S. Lanarkshire
Ah, I meant the size of the log :)
I use wedges on even quite small stuff. My knife blades are generally smaller than the timber you mentioned.

Not keen on that angled end of the handle on that skeleton tang. Suppose it depends on what it's intended for though.

cheers,
Toddy
 

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