Sharpening

[Greenbeast]

How long would you say it took to get the hang of sharpening by hand?

I've just started out and it is mighty frustrating
I've got a set of waterstones, 220/1000 & 4000/8000

The camp/bushcraft knife i'm trying has a secondary bevel (which i have manager to blunt), i'm also trying with my kitchen knives and my cut-throat razor (which should be easier as you just lay the thing flat!!)

 

[Warrigal]

That is a very hard question to answer. It is like asking how long will it take to learn to swim. But I think the answer is similar.
By yourself and with no outside help it is gunna take you a long time ( but at least you won't drown) If you buy a reputable book ( or start trowling the net) it is going to shorten the time down by say 80%
If you can get side by side with someone who not only can sharpen, but can also break it down so you can understand. Dare I suggest a day.
I have taught ( or laid the ground work at least ) for a couple other blokes in a few hours.
WARNING you will find a lot of self taught "experts" including myself will have somewhat different opinions on how to do it. Soak it all in. Learn each one distill your own method. Don't let anybody tell you "that" method is Bullsh@t unless they can explain why.
A couple suggestions. Don't start with a super hard alloy. Hit the second hand stores or your shed and get some cheapies to get the idea with.
Make sure your stones are flat, securely mounted ( so they won't slip I use some of that nonslip matting for shelves)
I find 4-6 inches above waist hight is about right ( for me)
I would also get a cheap carborundom stone to practise on. I use kitchen washing up liquid diluted with water as a lubricant. it makes cleaning the stones easy and it can by thick for course stones and almost water for fine stones.
A super fine edge is great on a woodcarving knife or a good alloy S30v but for a cheaper general purpose knife ( say your Mora) a bit of a toothy edge is not a bad thing.
Now having said that after reading Bushcraft a couple years ago I now strop the living bejesus out of everything I sharpen I really belive t makes the the edge last much longer. regardless of how fine a stone I finished with. A toothy edge will cut rope a bit easier and I reckon meat a bit better too.
If you get caught up in the convex rush I think a piece of vinyl is better than a mouse pad ( I think mouse pads run the risk of curling up the edge when your learning. ( so you are blunter than when you started)
I'm a fan of the Spyderco 204
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yVN9lLVPM4
Good looking bloke there. RATFLMAO
Make sure you read the instructions. Don't skimp on the first grind ( edges of the grey stones) keep the damm thing clean. Dirty stones will frustrate you.
If the oppertunity presents to grab a Buck 136 Honemaster. Discontinued by Buck years ago but they do turn up on fleabay.
End on

On a USAF survival knife

Certain angle every time. The trick with this is measure the distance from the rests of the 136( where it contacts the stones) to the cutting edge and then move the clamp so it is the same distance from the point to the end of the rest, that will sharpen your point. I think the hardest part to teach is getting the sweep of the blade and the point sharp.
Most the time a home now I use a EZElap fine/super fine diamond benchstone and my strop. And travel with an assortment of small bits and pieces that includes a coarse/fine diamond paddle a Fallkniven DC4 stone and some metal polish ( Autosol) you can strop on cardboard with polish if you have to.
My strop, a very heavy leather belt one day I will glue it to that block of wood.( as a side note I have a piece of vinyl glued on one side)

Good luck.
Carl

 

[Javapuntnl]

Hard to say how long it took me but the most valuable teaching tool I found to be Mors' chapter on sharpening in Bushcraft. He gives you a great explanation of what actually happens when you drag a knife across a stone, and understanding this helps (helped me) tremendously in developing the proper technique.

Jacob V.

 

[Tye Possum]

Hmm well I'd say it took me about a month..... To completely mess up my mora knife. I still suck at sharpening, I got my new mora 510 shaving sharp tonight but I really don't think I could repeat the process and I still don't know if the edge will hold up when I use it on something harder than a piece of paper. I don't even know how it's sharp, there are so many scratches on it, it looks like I just cut through a bundle of barbed wire. Of course I decided to learn on small stones that you'd carry in the field instead of bench stones, partly because I have very little money and partly because I figure those are the stones I'll be using most of the time anyway that I might as well learn on them, but I'd imagine it'll take me even longer than if I had gone with bench stones. Ahh well, I'll get the hang of it someday... hopefully.

 

[dwardo]

Using a magnifying and a good light source you can see where you are going wrong with the edge. Its pretty much just practice

 

[Greenbeast]

Thanks guys, Great post Warrigal.

I have been soaking in methods off the internet and mears' video, etc...

You are right, i think trying to sharpen the whole edge including the tip is making it difficult to get any of it sharp.
I had a small amount of success last night after posting that, i managed to cut myself and a piece of paper, its not perfect but getting there.

 

[Shewie]

I found it really hard to use waterstones at first and if anything I made my knives blunter than before I started. I used to practice on a old jonny rambo survival knife unitl it suddenly clicked and I was away.
If you've got an older knife you're not too bothered about I'd practice with that for now until you get the jist of it.

 

[Greenbeast]

the current camp knife i have is nothing special and i've got my old kitchen knives to use too.

I'm just waiting for that 'click' that you experienced

 

[Greenbeast]

Should i be able to cleanly/easily slice paper at 220?

 

[Warrigal]

Sharpening a Scandi grind is supposed to be easier. A scandi has a spine then moving to wards the edge. the sides of the knife which are parallel, then moving foward to angled edges that meet at the edge.
Lay the knife on the stone on the parallel side . so it balances there then gently push the cutting edge down till it stops that puts the whole scandi grind in contact with the stone and lifts the spine the correct amount, grind from there. Start work.
I do prefer the one big sweep heel to point in one movement like trying to shave a super thin sliver off the stone.
Unlike a lot, I teach work one side till you feel the burr. ( if you use your thumb and slide gently from the spine to edge on the side opposite to you were working you can feel a grabby rough bit which you can't feel on the side you were working, don't ever test a blade for sharpness by slideing the pad of your thumb down the edge you'll lose red stuff.)
When you have the burr The full length of the blade. Work the other side of the blade an equal number of strokes ( you were counting weren't you?)
When you reach the number of strokes is when you change grits. Depending on how big a gap in grit size between stones depends on how many strokes you'll need to remove the scratches from the previous stone. Don't be afraid to put some presure on the coarser grits, you are trying to remove metal put some back into it. BUT as you progress theough the grades your stroke pressue should be getting lighter generally a few heavies initaily each grit but generaly getting softer. Whne you have done the finest grade stone you own then strop. Holding the blade nearly flat, on a hard surface. And of course it must be a drag away from the cutting edge If you try to push the cutting edge into the strop you will quickly end up with two short strops. Remeber you can use cardboard ( the grey stuff on the back of note pads works a treat and toothpaste will do is no other grinding media or paste is available
Carl
Heres a go, I have been trying to work out how to describe getting the angle right to sharpen the sweep/belly and point.
Get a scandi ground knife Preferably a light one place it on a flat surface as driscribed above. Then suorting the handle lightly, gently run your finger along the lenght of the blade but only pushing down on the scandi grind as you get to the point you will see the hand start/trying to lift and tilt that is the action you have to replicate on all knives with a belly and point.If you knife has a rounded point the easiest way I know is to grind a new one one but pretending to cut into the stone at 90 degrees Yes it will blunten the knife but It is the quickest and surest way I know how to get the point sharp again.
Thread on a nose job I did a while ago
http://www.laventrix.com/showthread.php?t=1138&highlight=shotguns

Possum, I'd really try and get hold of a bigger stone ( got a Chinese grocery store anywhere near?) You are really making it hard for yourself using pocket stones. Like Shewie said eventually it will click.