Sharpening a carpenters foot adze?

[tombear]

Hi folks!

excuse what is a sort of double post but please bare with me.

On Sunday herself blew £8 on the carboot for a large rusty carpenters foot adze. Id been in two minds about getting due to its heavily rusty state and some doubt about ever going to need one.

Anyroad i spent best part of a day doing it up, eventually being resigned to living with some deep pits on the working side rather than remove more metal and weaken the whole thing.

The whole thing has been chemically derusted and wire brushed and ill probably paint the top and sides with something suitable.

My question is what sort of angle should I be sharpening it at? I've only crudely done the bevel on top so far, trying to copy the original. the cleaning and polishing produced a scary sharp edge by accident as often happens but i don't want it to go blunt after a few swings if its too accute.

I'm waiting to hear back from Faithfull about the size of their hickory replacement capenters adze handles socket end. If thats a bust I will have to get some ash or better still hickory and make my own, which is doable. the socket is 1 1/4" wide, tapering down from 2" to 1 5/8" in lenght. I'll need a little over 3 foot of it.

I'll make a mask for the edge when I get on with the leather work thats outstanding.

ATB

Tom

 

[mrcharly]

I couldn't give you an exact figure. You want to avoid having a convex edge on the back, it needs to be very like a plane, I'd say part way between the angle of a plane and a chisel.

 

[Toddy]

I don't know, but I can ask in the workshops if no one else replies.

As a very little girl I watched as my Dad used his to shape the balk of timber that would become the keel of a new boat. He took off paper thin slivers with it, and I played with the shavings. He was very skilled indeed and his tools were razor sharp.
Many years later I saw foot adzes being used in a workshop where the men were shaping oak beams to make the trusses for a building. I saw the same tool being used to shape big elm timbers to make a bed too.

If you practice and become capable with it, it's a very good tool indeed

M

 

[Macaroon]

Here's a good resource for adze know-how, this guy reckons a total included angle of 35 deg., but have a read, he's very knowledgable.

http://timmanneychairmaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/adze-grinding-and-sharpening.html

 

[mrcharly]

That's a different type of adze, Macaroon

 

[Macaroon]

That's a different type of adze, Macaroon

I realise that, but when I saw his recommendation for 35 deg. for rough work I thought about it and even my largest axes have plenty of meat behind the edge at that; I wouldn't have thought you'd need to go more than that on any tool

I'm no expert though, and always stand to be corrected

 

[mrcharly]

The angle might be correct for rough work, but I wouldn't want the OP to copy the sharpening instructions in error.

I believe the main thing is to avoid any convex or bevel on the outside edge; if there is one, then you can't accurately take off shavings. With these adzes, you should be able to put a pencil on the floor, hold it down with your foot and sharpen the pencil. You should also be able to take off shavings almost as fine as a plane shaving.

 

[Macaroon]

You clearly know more about it than I; I hadn't realised that such a large tool was used for such fine work. You live and learn, eh?

 

[Toddy]

…..With these adzes, you should be able to put a pencil on the floor, hold it down with your foot and sharpen the pencil. You should also be able to take off shavings almost as fine as a plane shaving.

+1

That's what I mind of it too. Big wide paper thin shavings.
That said though, I've seen the men in the workshop reduce some muckle great timbers into shaped pieces in a hurry with them.

M

 

[Macaroon]

Just had a read of The Complete Guide to Sharpening, by Leonard Lee, and he recommends 25 deg. for softwood and 30 deg. for hardwood for roughing, and for fine finishing reduce those angles by 5 deg.

 

[tombear]

Cheers folks, now I have some numbers to work from ill have a go. Flattening the base for the last inch or so won't be hard, it's pretty much there as it is. The curtting edge is like a huge very shallow in canal gouge so I will be using a diamond sharpening steel and slip stones.

ive heard back from Faithfull and the socket end is 57mm x 29 so plenty long enough but 3 mm under for the max width. Since it will save me do much work I think I'll get one, saw it up for 3 inches, steam the end then glue a wedge in to bring it up to the right width.

Thanks again!

Tom

PS got some steel toe capped clogs , will gave to make some greaves to go with and rivet some strips of steel to them!

 

[mrcharly]

I shouldn't worry too much about hitting your shins, I first started using one of those with nought on my feet and wearing shorts. I was doing fencing work in Australia and using the adze to square off the ends of poles. I still have all my toes. Swing through and don't jam the blade.

It's having a convex edge can make them dangerous, makes the adze prone to glancing off rather than taking off a shaving.

 

[Robson Valley]

As macaroon points out, very useful to follow the late Leonard Lee's advice.
Do your very best to keep the bevel entirely on the inside face of the blade.
My Stubai carver's adze is a 7/75 that I maintain at 30 degrees total included bevel.
My Kestrel Baby Sitka elbow adze and my Kestrel D adze blades are both 25 degrees as they are used almost exclusively in Western Red Cedar.

http://kestreltool.com/index.html

Don't be disappointed when you never see shavings. Fine chips, yes. An adze is not meant to be a shaving blade.
The closest that I've ever come to that was with the D adze in yellow cedar.

 

[Toddy]

I have to disagree; the adze I have seen used shaved timbers almost like a plane, but it could, and did, do it on the curve.
Skilled hands make a difference I admit, but it's a good tool.

M

 

[Robson Valley]

Not everyone is capable of doing that on Day One.

Some describe an adze as a band saw on a stick. For smoother surfaces, I turn to alternative tools.
But, an adze at 30 degrees will get you close to the line in a hurry. They are a pleasure to swing.

Striking accuracy is the same experienced skill as that for a blacksmith.

 

[Toddy]

I would agree that it needs skill to use to fine effect, and that it can reduce timber to the line very quickly indeed

M

 

[Robson Valley]

In the Kestrel website, you can see an example of a textured surface and the specialized elbow adze that makes the technique the easiest.
Very common finish on totem, mortuary and story poles. Even the large version of Bill Reid's "Raven and the First Men" has a textured surface.
Can't be more than a #2 sweep.

I can do it with both my elbow adze and to a limited extent, my D adze. A distinct pattern just looks better than random whacks.
I did find that I can turn the D adze around and push it like a plane for shavings. It's far easier to do that with a PacNW style crooked knife.

Tom's adze blade loooks to me to be 4-5" wide (#1) for a cut of maybe 2" in the timber.

The one single useful point that I have learned was advice from a Haida native carver.
He told me to listen to my heart and never swing faster that heart rate to go all day.
Correct.

 

[mr dazzler]

35 would give you a strong edge but hard work. 24 or 26 would penetrate better, that is until you hit a knot in pine soft wood..... oh well its swings (sorry terrible pun) and roundabouts, as always with these things. I'd try it at 28 or 30, see how it goes. Frankly unless you are regularly working on BIG heavy timber/s I cant see the value of them. Yours is actually in good condition. I salvaged one (I own 2) that looked like someone used it to dig in their garden and its round, not square across the end like yours-so I left it that way even after sharpening. But as far as adzes go these days its elbow adzes all the way for me, far easier to use (with practise) lighter more versatile

 

[Bundleman]

I've used adzes for many years, mostly for dressing oak beams. Mine are sharpened at roughtly 30 degrees.
Nice job with cleaning it up.

 

[Robson Valley]

Think of the bevel angle as the angle that you are going to use to push wood open.
For carving, even a 1/2"/12mm skew is a big push at 25 degrees. 20 is a huge change.
My Stubai and my elbow adze are 25 degrees, so is my D adze.
Over time, I see that there is enough steel behind the edge so it doesn't collapse in a poor strike.
That's the practicality of my kitchen bone cleaver at 40 degrees.

Everybody here has good angle ideas.
30 is the choice for hardwoods, 25 is better for soft woods and shallow strikes in hard woods.