Semi-permanent Camp
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Firstly, welcome to the forum beenn, if it isn't too late!
There are some good points being raised in this thread and I'm glad to see them get an airing.
The way I read the first post in this thread I don't think that beenn actually cut down any live trees himself, it seems that others did that and he cut them into pieces to do what he calls some tidying up. Normally I wouldn't want to cut up wood and burn it just for the sake of tidying up because dead wood is of great value in the environment, but we don't know the full story here. Sure there are things that seem to leave room for improvement but I think we could get more information before we all start yelling...
Likewise the OP talks about carrying out rubbish, and surely that's to be applauded whatever the source of the rubbish? The OP doesn't say it was rubbish that he created, in fact in his earlier thread on the same subject he says he thinks it was the local allotment holders who left it there. If beenn is clearing up rubbish that other people have left there then he deserves a medal, not a roasting on this forum.
Beenn, I'm guessing that you aren't native to Great Britain. As others have said here, there are legal constraints in Britain that you may not be aware of so you might want to look into that. If you haven't lived in places where there are a lot of folk nearby who haven't been educated in the ways of the countryside then you might be in for one or two unpleasant surprises -- we might be able to help you avoid some of those. There are some accepted standards in the 'bushcraft' community and I'm sure you will quickly be learning more about them.
There are some good points being raised in this thread and I'm glad to see them get an airing.
The way I read the first post in this thread I don't think that beenn actually cut down any live trees himself, it seems that others did that and he cut them into pieces to do what he calls some tidying up. Normally I wouldn't want to cut up wood and burn it just for the sake of tidying up because dead wood is of great value in the environment, but we don't know the full story here. Sure there are things that seem to leave room for improvement but I think we could get more information before we all start yelling...
Likewise the OP talks about carrying out rubbish, and surely that's to be applauded whatever the source of the rubbish? The OP doesn't say it was rubbish that he created, in fact in his earlier thread on the same subject he says he thinks it was the local allotment holders who left it there. If beenn is clearing up rubbish that other people have left there then he deserves a medal, not a roasting on this forum.
Beenn, I'm guessing that you aren't native to Great Britain. As others have said here, there are legal constraints in Britain that you may not be aware of so you might want to look into that. If you haven't lived in places where there are a lot of folk nearby who haven't been educated in the ways of the countryside then you might be in for one or two unpleasant surprises -- we might be able to help you avoid some of those. There are some accepted standards in the 'bushcraft' community and I'm sure you will quickly be learning more about them.
While low profile and sympathetic wild camping can often be overlooked, if it's not his land, it is very blatant and flagrant trespass. I do think it's not unfair to say that his is the kind of camp that gives bushcraft a bad name, and it's not difficult to read around these forums to see what 'good' practice is.
Personally, although I'm all up for recycling, this kind of camp just doesn't do it for me and if I was one of the nearby residents or allotmenteers, I'd be concerned about who may have taken up residence. Sorry, but I would.
I'd consider trying to contact the landowner (if applicable) of this plot or perhaps other, more suitable land nearby to see if they would give permission for camping regularly at a spot. If nothing is forthcoming, at least try moving it to somewhere more remote.
To improve the camp?
- Try to use more natural materials for shelter etc. or
- Aim for the 'leave no trace' philosophy; bring cord and a poncho or small tarp with you instead of erecting a more permanent shelter, and you can use your regular camp with the bonus that when you are not there, it is returned to nature.
Personally, although I'm all up for recycling, this kind of camp just doesn't do it for me and if I was one of the nearby residents or allotmenteers, I'd be concerned about who may have taken up residence. Sorry, but I would.
I'd consider trying to contact the landowner (if applicable) of this plot or perhaps other, more suitable land nearby to see if they would give permission for camping regularly at a spot. If nothing is forthcoming, at least try moving it to somewhere more remote.
To improve the camp?
- Try to use more natural materials for shelter etc. or
- Aim for the 'leave no trace' philosophy; bring cord and a poncho or small tarp with you instead of erecting a more permanent shelter, and you can use your regular camp with the bonus that when you are not there, it is returned to nature.
Beenn,
Well done for tidying your camp, personally i would use a tarp or basha as your shelter and a fire box in an old jerrycan, for example, that way your fire doesn't scar the earth and you can dispose of the ashes better. Be as discreet as possible so no one will disturb you or move you on. As for the stream, is it drinkable? have you had it tested?
Just be careful, and well done for getting out there and doing it, an armchair bushcrafter you are certainly not!!!!
Well done for tidying your camp, personally i would use a tarp or basha as your shelter and a fire box in an old jerrycan, for example, that way your fire doesn't scar the earth and you can dispose of the ashes better. Be as discreet as possible so no one will disturb you or move you on. As for the stream, is it drinkable? have you had it tested?
Just be careful, and well done for getting out there and doing it, an armchair bushcrafter you are certainly not!!!!
Hi everyone.. Sorry for the late reply.
The land is owned by the alotment owner who knows my father, they didnt have no alotments and said i could use this land, and then i got into bushcraft... but someone went and took a chainsaw to the place recently!
If i camp somewhere new i use a tarp and do try to leave no trace.. and i carry all my knife ect in my rucksack but the owners dont seem to say anything when ive used the knife, axe ect...
Thanks for your concern but the rubbish wasnt mine and i only used what was in the area for shelter, I will take it down when i leave the area
I live in wales and always have, the alotment owners use knives just as i do...
The land is owned by the alotment owner who knows my father, they didnt have no alotments and said i could use this land, and then i got into bushcraft... but someone went and took a chainsaw to the place recently!
If i camp somewhere new i use a tarp and do try to leave no trace.. and i carry all my knife ect in my rucksack but the owners dont seem to say anything when ive used the knife, axe ect...
Thanks for your concern but the rubbish wasnt mine and i only used what was in the area for shelter, I will take it down when i leave the area
I live in wales and always have, the alotment owners use knives just as i do...
Fair play Beenn for giving it a go!
At least you have the gumption to get out and do.
I deffo would scrap the carpet as it will deffinatly start to rot and lets be honest Purple is a tad bright
You could go for a cheap builders tarp which would add better protection to the shelter and not a Mild death trap (if one of your poles breaks during the night thats one mighty fine headache!
I agree with having a small fire as opposed to a big one, small fuel usage and can provide a stable heat and light source with little effort.
Maybe a little more detail was needed in your OP but i think everyone needs to take a step back and correctly read and asses the situation before opening a torrent of negativity.
everyone!
At least you have the gumption to get out and do.
I deffo would scrap the carpet as it will deffinatly start to rot and lets be honest Purple is a tad bright
You could go for a cheap builders tarp which would add better protection to the shelter and not a Mild death trap (if one of your poles breaks during the night thats one mighty fine headache!
I agree with having a small fire as opposed to a big one, small fuel usage and can provide a stable heat and light source with little effort.
Maybe a little more detail was needed in your OP but i think everyone needs to take a step back and correctly read and asses the situation before opening a torrent of negativity.
everyone!
Fair play Beenn for giving it a go!
At least you have the gumption to get out and do.
I deffo would scrap the carpet as it will deffinatly start to rot and lets be honest Purple is a tad bright
You could go for a cheap builders tarp which would add better protection to the shelter and not a Mild death trap (if one of your poles breaks during the night thats one mighty fine headache!
I agree with having a small fire as opposed to a big one, small fuel usage and can provide a stable heat and light source with little effort.
Maybe a little more detail was needed in your OP but i think everyone needs to take a step back and correctly read and asses the situation before opening a torrent of negativity.
Indeed
Sorry about the lack of info in the first post....
I will take down the shelter and either build a debris shelter or take a tarp with me when i get one i bought a poncho just now and will go out now to try it...
I had the large fire because there were very large piles of wood that had been cut down with chainsaws- for no apparant reason- and i had permission to use the land, so had to clear a spot to use so i burnt some wood off and piled the rest up for fire wood. I have not left anything at the camp, everything there was already there, and i have only cut wood which is already cut down.
I know there was concern of the legal side of it, but most bushcrafters have trespassed, and i wouldnt dare to leave rubbish or fire scars in the wild, this land was abused and i wanted to make good use of it, but speaking of the 'law' most bushcrafters carry a full tang knife- and the last time i checked that was illegal too
Thankyou for your concerns but i would like to show I would not leave any land like this, I had permission to use the land and wanted to see what i could do, I have not cut any live trees or left rubbish..
Ben.
I will take down the shelter and either build a debris shelter or take a tarp with me when i get one
i bought a poncho just now and will go out now to try it...I had the large fire because there were very large piles of wood that had been cut down with chainsaws- for no apparant reason- and i had permission to use the land, so had to clear a spot to use so i burnt some wood off and piled the rest up for fire wood. I have not left anything at the camp, everything there was already there, and i have only cut wood which is already cut down.
I know there was concern of the legal side of it, but most bushcrafters have trespassed, and i wouldnt dare to leave rubbish or fire scars in the wild, this land was abused and i wanted to make good use of it, but speaking of the 'law' most bushcrafters carry a full tang knife- and the last time i checked that was illegal too
Thankyou for your concerns but i would like to show I would not leave any land like this, I had permission to use the land and wanted to see what i could do, I have not cut any live trees or left rubbish..
Ben.
I know people only care when they say about the rubbish and trees being cut, and i agree exactly but i wouldnt leave a place like that
but may i ask how can you apply the 'leave no trace' moto with a semi permanent camp? I will remove the carpet and metal sheets, im about to go out and do it now.. but im curious?
but may i ask how can you apply the 'leave no trace' moto with a semi permanent camp? I will remove the carpet and metal sheets, im about to go out and do it now.. but im curious?
Personally I think "leave no trace" applies more to wild land than land that you have permission to utilise regularly. The intention is different, you're aiming to have an established camp rather than a temporary shelter. Care and respect still apply but the function of the location is different.
Seems to me Beenn is more legal than a lot of us who kip in the outdoors without landowner's permission. Perhaps a certain amount of jumping to conclusions.
Beenn - Lack of information and inaccurate description of the land hasn't helped peoples' impressions of your camp. I'm still not sure. Am I correct in saying the land belongs to a friend of the family, it was an allotment (or part of it was) but is not being used for this now. You have full permission to be there and use it in a responsible way. The live trees were cut by someone other than your (perhaps the landowner or his representatives) and you are cleaning the site up and using the natural resources that were damaged / cut down by others as practically and with least waste as possible. Is that a fair interpretation?
Bin the carpet and metal sheets. A nice tarp is better or debris shelter of some kind. I'd make it as discrete as possible if I were you as I know when I was a kid if I had found such a site I'd be using it myself. Others have already mentioned big fire. Perhaps a little hobo stove instead stashed away for brews. A fire tray of some kind. Could the metal sheets be used somehow? Saves clearing it off the site if it can.
One more thing, enjoy yourself.
One more thing, stuff the group hug malarky! I don't know where you lot have been!!
PS I'm more a travelling type myself and prefer to move on each morning. Guess I'm not strictly bushcraft.
Beenn - Lack of information and inaccurate description of the land hasn't helped peoples' impressions of your camp. I'm still not sure. Am I correct in saying the land belongs to a friend of the family, it was an allotment (or part of it was) but is not being used for this now. You have full permission to be there and use it in a responsible way. The live trees were cut by someone other than your (perhaps the landowner or his representatives) and you are cleaning the site up and using the natural resources that were damaged / cut down by others as practically and with least waste as possible. Is that a fair interpretation?
Bin the carpet and metal sheets. A nice tarp is better or debris shelter of some kind. I'd make it as discrete as possible if I were you as I know when I was a kid if I had found such a site I'd be using it myself. Others have already mentioned big fire. Perhaps a little hobo stove instead stashed away for brews. A fire tray of some kind. Could the metal sheets be used somehow? Saves clearing it off the site if it can.
One more thing, enjoy yourself.
One more thing, stuff the group hug malarky! I don't know where you lot have been!!
PS I'm more a travelling type myself and prefer to move on each morning. Guess I'm not strictly bushcraft.
Hi Beenn,
I would not worry to much about using man made materials for your shelter, there is no harm in utilising what you find, I have used all sorts to build shelters from corrugated sheets, fertiliser bags even the abundant supply of silage wrap that litters the countryside. Good for you getting out and doing your bit.
Frogo
I would not worry to much about using man made materials for your shelter, there is no harm in utilising what you find, I have used all sorts to build shelters from corrugated sheets, fertiliser bags even the abundant supply of silage wrap that litters the countryside. Good for you getting out and doing your bit.
Frogo
That is pretty good Benn. Much better than my first go.
I started with a tent made out of aluminium sheets from a dumped caravan and a bed made out of insulating cork from a refridgeration unit.
The tent was fine until it fell on me. My fault for having an argument with the wild life in it one night.
You said you have some buckets of bricks...
May I suggest you scrape a square of soil absolutely clear of roots and lay a square of bricks on it for the bottom of your fire?
If you make a back wall out of them, too, they wont dry out and catch fire.
Having a fire that close to the other trees in the summer could well be a problem as even a stray spark can burn the place down. I suggest you sort out a hobo or a woodgas stove by then, or even better, an alchohol stove so you dont give off smoke.
When you are chopping up the branches that were hacked down, have a look for any nice straight pieces and also a couple of Y shaped pieces that you can use to support your tarp. That way you can leave your frame and take your tarp so the ones who are dumping the rubbish dont take it. If you intend to continue with the iron sheets, may I suggest you build a two sided thing so one side can rest on the other, making it a lot more stable.
If you hack your firewood into 6 inch lengths and store it under a piece of tarp, but up off the ground, it will stay drying until you need it. You might need to hide it so you arnt burgled.
Looking at that stream... I would have liked one of them in my camp.
However, that water looks a bit yuck. If I was you, I would look at possibly scraping out the muck and finding out what it is and where it came from. It could be run off from the road drains and this area is being used as a soakaway. If so, flooding may be a problem. If it is a natural spring, a small dam might give you a nice big puddle to wash in.
If you want to drink it, you would have to ask someone here who knows what they are talking about as I wouldnt know how to tell if it was polluted. If it isnt, a propper water filter bag and some treatment with the propper tablets might work...But ask on here for someone who actually knows, dont rely on my word on that.
There are some trees that will start to grow if you stick snapped off twigs back in the ground. I dont know which ones are which, but someone else may be able to advise you how to start your screens growing...
Have you found the tarps that you wanted?
Have you thought of making hammocks out of it too?
Would love to have a semi permanent start like that for me...I mean my kids!
Good luck with it and keep asking.
I started with a tent made out of aluminium sheets from a dumped caravan and a bed made out of insulating cork from a refridgeration unit.
The tent was fine until it fell on me. My fault for having an argument with the wild life in it one night.
You said you have some buckets of bricks...
May I suggest you scrape a square of soil absolutely clear of roots and lay a square of bricks on it for the bottom of your fire?
If you make a back wall out of them, too, they wont dry out and catch fire.
Having a fire that close to the other trees in the summer could well be a problem as even a stray spark can burn the place down. I suggest you sort out a hobo or a woodgas stove by then, or even better, an alchohol stove so you dont give off smoke.
When you are chopping up the branches that were hacked down, have a look for any nice straight pieces and also a couple of Y shaped pieces that you can use to support your tarp. That way you can leave your frame and take your tarp so the ones who are dumping the rubbish dont take it. If you intend to continue with the iron sheets, may I suggest you build a two sided thing so one side can rest on the other, making it a lot more stable.
If you hack your firewood into 6 inch lengths and store it under a piece of tarp, but up off the ground, it will stay drying until you need it. You might need to hide it so you arnt burgled.
Looking at that stream... I would have liked one of them in my camp.
However, that water looks a bit yuck. If I was you, I would look at possibly scraping out the muck and finding out what it is and where it came from. It could be run off from the road drains and this area is being used as a soakaway. If so, flooding may be a problem. If it is a natural spring, a small dam might give you a nice big puddle to wash in.
If you want to drink it, you would have to ask someone here who knows what they are talking about as I wouldnt know how to tell if it was polluted. If it isnt, a propper water filter bag and some treatment with the propper tablets might work...But ask on here for someone who actually knows, dont rely on my word on that.
There are some trees that will start to grow if you stick snapped off twigs back in the ground. I dont know which ones are which, but someone else may be able to advise you how to start your screens growing...
Have you found the tarps that you wanted?
Have you thought of making hammocks out of it too?
Would love to have a semi permanent start like that for me...I mean my kids!
Good luck with it and keep asking.
Almost all the 1/4 million allotments in England and Wales are owned and managed by the local authorities.
Ive been out and took down the shelter, i carried the metal sheets and the carpet was given to a alotment owner, he wanted it for some reason
There is not much land where i live that is away from people or peoples land but i may just move about when i camp and try to practise bushcraft somewhere else... ( cannot drive!!)
I will look around for a tarp that suits me but im not too keen on the thought of me and hammocks together...
The alotment owner is a friend of the family and the land belongs to him but he does not use it and said i could
I camp alone as none of my friends have a intrest in bushcraft so i dont want to wander too far alone
Thankyou for all your replies
There is not much land where i live that is away from people or peoples land but i may just move about when i camp and try to practise bushcraft somewhere else... ( cannot drive!!)
I will look around for a tarp that suits me but im not too keen on the thought of me and hammocks together...
The alotment owner is a friend of the family and the land belongs to him but he does not use it and said i could
I camp alone as none of my friends have a intrest in bushcraft so i dont want to wander too far alone
Thankyou for all your replies
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Ben, i have to take my hat off to you mate, you're actually out there doing it and looking for knowledge along the way, you've had some good advice on here and to your credit, taken it on board and acted on it.
Above all else, in the face of some pretty provocative comments, you've remained polite and explained yourself well.
Keep it up mate, good luck, stay safe and enjoy yourself.
( oh, by the way, Hiya and welcome to the site )
Above all else, in the face of some pretty provocative comments, you've remained polite and explained yourself well.
Keep it up mate, good luck, stay safe and enjoy yourself.
( oh, by the way, Hiya and welcome to the site
)
Thankyou Robbi, Its much appreciated!
I see where other people come from, im new to bushcraft and want to learn
Thanks again, Ben.
I see where other people come from, im new to bushcraft and want to learn
Thanks again, Ben.
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