Scottish camping By-law have your say

[demographic]

I have wandered this land since childhood.
The only places I could not do so were on the MOD lands down the Clyde estuary.
Anywhere else to be somewhere just for a walk wasn't an excuse, it was a reason. Camping for a night or two if you did no damage most folks never minded. Usually offered you fresh water and hinted that the wife had eggs and veggies for sale

Land that sees a lot of people using it needs stewarding in this country. No getting away from it, we have an appalling habit of dirt and destruction.
Look around any area after the school kids have been out for lunch and there's the cleansing dept clearing up after them.
They carry that throw away, knock it down, kick it over attitude into adult life. They go to Loch Lomond and the like and get rat assed maroculous and think they're having a good time

No other situation with so many visitors would have such truly dire infrastructure. Not enough bins, not enough toilets, not enough stewards, not enough signages (and yes, the numpties need the keep off the cliff signs )

Is the answer restrictions ?

No.

It's education in the long term and in the short term more publicity, more rangers, more application of the fines already available; more police and more public infrastructure.
Scream it out in every tabloid in the country, "don't trash, don't cut down trees, bury your sh1t away from watercourses".

And for heavens sake some enterprising businessman with a wee lorry run along the lochside selling bags of sticks. He'd make a wee mint. It doesn't even need to be well seasoned for household use stuff, those idiots'll no' care so long as it burns.

cheers,
Toddy

I agree with pretty much all of that.
Don't start banning things just cos there's a few wallys

 

[johnnytheboy]

I take it every one has put some effort into giving the steering committee their views on the subject????

Seriously, I have seen this happen before, we all sat about and ranted on a forum at each other and forgot to put our views in them the next thig we knew there was a blanket ban on livebait fishing.

Please take 5 mins to fill in the quick survey, it will be the thin edge of the wedge, when it happens in one area it will happen in another, before we know it ComrieCroft will be the only place we can go and chill with a camp and a fire.

 

[demographic]

I take it every one has put some effort into giving the steering committee their views on the subject????

Seriously, I have seen this happen before, we all sat about and ranted on a forum at each other and forgot to put our views in them the next thig we knew there was a blanket ban on livebait fishing.

Please take 5 mins to fill in the quick survey, it will be the thin edge of the wedge, when it happens in one area it will happen in another, before we know it ComrieCroft will be the only place we can go and chill with a camp and a fire.

Filled it in and had my whinge.

 

[Toddy]

Me too and pestered other folks to do so too

cheers,
Toddy

 

[coln18]

Yep filled it in 2 days ago and will take it further, In the local papers they have announced 5 places up for grabs on the committee for the national park, i think it may be for locals only, so no point applying if you live in Cornwall me thinks...

Hopefully as many people as possible will fill in the form, i live local and new nothing of its existence until it was posted on here, so good effort who ever it was who posted the link to the form...

And remember its not just for you its also for future generations that we try to keep the right to use our lands in a positive way and as Toddy says education is the way forward, but we can only do that if we keep existing access laws the same.

Colin

 

[Mikey P]

And for heavens sake some enterprising businessman with a wee lorry run along the lochside selling bags of sticks. He'd make a wee mint.

cheers,
Toddy

Hmmmmmm......... A plan methinks.....

 

[pango]

There used to be a NTS Warden at Blackmount who managed to get fires banned and was working on banning camping. Glen Etive was brought under his zealous ward, where fires were soon banned and it looked for a while like he was going to get his way with the camping.

Some of his arguments were valid, with live wood being cut and rubbish left scattered- I remember an abandoned cottage tent, mattresses and all. (which I cleared up after a week. He must have been too... busy!) His argument over camping though, was that it was causing erosion of the river banks, which in Etive are under a raging torrent for a couple of months of the year.

I'm sure you'll be as surprised as I was to discover that it was the estates, and the keepers in particular, who stood their ground with regard to camping. They have enough to do without trying to round up hypothermic walkers, and are fully aware that many hotels and businesses from Milngavie to Kinloch would go to the wall without the walkers trade.

I'm told he met his Nemesis when he tried to lay down the law to the old Head-keeper at Etive. I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during that encounter.

There seems to be a huge conceptual difference on the idea of rights of access between the Scots and the English and that may well be due to the differences between Scots and English Law. It's no coincidence that the Great Trespasses were in England. There have never been encoded trespass laws in Scotland, although many landowners have tried to turn the law to their favour... the Duke of Atholl almost bankrupted his estate when attempting to close Atholl to cattle droves in the 1800's and he was forced by law to remove gates. It's our tragedy that the law turned a blind eye to the evictions and removal of our indigenous peoples, although the Duke of Stafford honed his skills in Staffordshire before marrying into the Sutherland family and devastating Sutherland and Caithness. The Scots never needed the English though, we've always been perfectly capable of betrayal and murder without them. Most of the clan lands went on the drinking dens, gambling tables and whorehouses of Edinburgh, and it was the Scottish aristocracy who sent their own kin-folk to America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

I am a Scot and will go where I please in my own land, safe in the knowledge that the law will stand for me unless criminal intent is proven. The new access laws, although imperfect and under threat, also allow me to camp overnight if the need arises, so long as common sense is used and you don't set up camp in someones garden... although I have inadvertently done this in the dark, when pulling my kayak onto what I thought was an island. Nobody should have an island in their garden anyway!

Sadly, not everyone leaves behind only footprints and those disrespectful few are threatening access and enjoyment of the countryside for everyone.

Too early in the morning for this!

Cheers.

 

[gregorach]

Would a better control of the parking facilities do the trick ? It's a bit of a simplistic approach but if there's nowhere to overnight park then surely that would help reduce the number of chainsaw wielding party campers ?

One of the big attractions of the east side of Loch Lomond is that you can get there by bus in about 45 minutes from Glasgow city centre.

 

[locum76]

I want to have my say on the website thingummy but I'm not sure where I stand. Freedom for all over the whole country to be sure, but what measures to control the mess?

 

[British Red]

Purely as a matter of interest, to all those who want additional infrastructure and enforcement....how should this be paid for? I assume something in the local (council) tax?

So..how much are you personally willing to "weigh in" to improve infrastructure, education, enforcement etc.? We all know that someone has to pay for this stuff..so I'm interested to know how much each household should be expected to contribute?

Red

 

[demographic]

Purely as a matter of interest, to all those who want additional infrastructure and enforcement....how should this be paid for? I assume something in the local (council) tax?

So..how much are you personally willing to "weigh in" to improve infrastructure, education, enforcement etc.? We all know that someone has to pay for this stuff..so I'm interested to know how much each household should be expected to contribute?

Red

Dunno bout anyone else but I suggested fining the people who make the place a tip, fining people is how they pay the wages for traffic wardens, why not with them?

A few well publicised hefty fines would make the world of difference and ensure that only the numpties pay.

 

[British Red]

Well, I thought the outcome of the consultation was quite enlightening - both in terms of the outcome and the number of responses.

What did you guys think?

Red

 

[Nagual]

Well, I thought the outcome of the consultation was quite enlightening - both in terms of the outcome and the number of responses.

What did you guys think?

Red

I may have missed the outcome, the only thing I could see was the report on the responses. I personally find the number of responses disappointing, although if I'm honest, not unexpected.

 

[British Red]

The National Park Authority has submitted a board report for approval on 23 June
2010. The byelaws, if approved by the National Park Board, will then be subject to a
further one month consultation prior to application for confirmation of the byelaws.

Thats the main part of the outcome - which I guess is appropriate given the views expressed

 

[Shewie]

I couldn't open the pdf they sent, did I miss much ?

 

[British Red]

Pretty much across the board support for the byelaws and restrictions Shewie - from both organisations and individuals. Roughly 2:1 in favour. Less than 300 replies.

 

[Toddy]

Hmmmm a very different tone to the newspaper reports.........
"New formal campsites with toilets, fire pits and bins are to be set up inside the zone to provide some continuing access for campers. "

What was suggested all along for such an overburdened area. Now if they'd just done that in the first place we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Too many people in too small an area, not enough infrastructure for an urbanised society playing in the park on their doorsteps.

Tell you something else.....I know more folks than that replied, what the hang happened to their responses ?

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Bonnie-banks-camping-ban-under.6372936.jp

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Morrolan]

Without getting overly political,i think this is what should happen to offenders by the ,but if they choose to step over the line again,maybe a change of tact to might hit the right note,but knowing human nature they will persist so we would have to resort to this :twak:,so after being and getting out of casualty looking like and after having a chance to :bluThinki and on it,they may just

But alas there will be hardliners i would imagine,so all i can suggest is to make them before facing the:AR15firin squad.
Or am i

This post was a partly political broadcast brought to you by the Bushcrafters had enough party.

Just my humble thoughts.

Cheers Stuart.

That has got to be the most eloquent pictoral quote ever...