Scientists sniffing out the Western allergy epidemic

[Fluffydave]

Just read this article on the Beeb. It seems to confirm something I've suspected for a long time, that people seem to be alergic of everything these days and it's due to the sterile environments that people are living in. Anyway food for thought. Of course if this rings true, then most of the people on the Bushcraft forums shouldn't suffer from allergies/asthma etc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28934415

 

[cranmere]

I've suffered from hayfever for all of my life that I can remember. What neither I nor Mr Cranmere have a problem with is eating out. We know people who frequently contract stomach upsets after eating out and strongly suspect that it's because they are clean freaks whereas we are clean but not paranoid and so almost certainly meet small numbers of various bugs on an ongoing basis and have resistance as a result.

 

[Ogri the trog]

I had horrific hayfever as a kid - blocked nose, itching eyes right throughout every summer - and I still dislike the warm weather because of it.

In later years, I have lost the sensitivity to the hayfever and become allergic to all and any cows milk products.

Now, I have no idea how clean I was kept as a young child, but as soon as I was allowed out on my own and since then, to this very day, have not been a stranger to my fair share of dirt, muck and grime.

All of which makes me suspicious of the "clean freak cause" - however, the chemical cocktail resulting from modern life (pollutants, drugs, immunizations and the solvent residue in just about every man-made substance) and how it reacts within growing bodies leaves me deeply suspicious - but proving a link is likely to be difficult at best.

In all likelihood FD, I'd bet that there are more than a few of us with some pretty major medical issues.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Toddy]

......and I'm usually filthy (trust me, I've just combed my hair and there were spider's webs and birch seeds in it cleaning out a shed) and my allergies grow by the year

On the whole I do subscribe to the idea that to be kind of grubby isn't a bad thing, but indoors ? yeah, I use soap, and bleach and the best hoovers I can afford.

Food wise I usually munch my weeds, so if anyone's going to build up an immunity it ought to be me.

I think there are too many parameters for it to be so very clear cut as is often suggested.

One of my Aunts was as allergic to things as I am. We used to have to throw the cat out of the house when she came to visit, and remove the cushions (feathers) too.
An awful lot of what we are now is what our genetics give us, and how that flares up depends on the stimulus they receive. I got the too soft skin with the tendency to flare up with some things, unfortunately.
My sons however seem to be absolutely fine .......and they were fed the wild foods too, and got absolutely manky through the day, scrubbed back to cherubness at bedtime, and slept clean as a whistle though.

I am also friends with some folks who eschew the entire soap and water business, and their children are no more healthy than mine are; indeed two have had inhalers since they were in nursery.

As for the article; I think it's a factor, but I don't think it's the whole story.

cheers,
M

 

[Goatboy]

"We must eat a peck of dirt before we die." (About two dry gallons if your wondering).

We were kept clean growing up but not overly, kids have to get dirty; think of Toddy's catchphrase, "Muddiness is a state of happiness."

Speaking to folks with kids lately, they avoid them getting things like measles, my folks used to actively seek out other kids with things as better to get them young. Speaking as someone who had adult chicken pox one New Year I'd rather not go through it again. Why I still use wooden chopping boards and still play outside as an overly grown kid! Like the others I think too clean is bad as you never build up a resistance. So saying I'm still not kissing my misses when she has a coldsore - nope at least a months moritorium on that activity!

 

[Corso]

Its a modern epidemic maybe because it was first catagorised in the 1900's rather than something new, and the sudden rise from the 60's onward is more due to the hypersensitivity classification scheme that was created then, these days it just as likley due to mass/self/insistant/miss diagnosis than actual clinical presentation.

An allergy is a specific immune response quite offten a sensitivity or intollerance is misdiagnosed

I'm sure allergies have been round for as long as Man has, maybe the population has become genetically weak but that's because we cure other ailments that would have otherwise killed off our forefathers too early for them to procreate

 

[santaman2000]

I think the fact that we (society) avoid exposure does partly contribute to the reduced immunity today. But there's another reason that's likely even a bigger contributor.

Heredity. Formerly those with severe allergies might have died before reproducing or at best would have sniffled, sneezed, wheezed, and generally been unattractive to potential mates and would not have passed on their genes. Today however, with modern treatments, you might never even notice each other's allergies for years.

Edit to add: OOPS! Corso beat me to it.

 

[andybysea]

Some this modern life style rings true probably, but I saw the article on BBC news this morning and they where discussing the fact we have a lot more allergies than we did 200 yrs ago, hmmm really (a) how many people had access to a Doctor then? or even 80yrs ago? how many of those would have gone for itchy eyes and a sniffling nose? Like was mentioned you died younger anyway and autopsy's were not always done or causes know. I came home filthy as a child played with anything and everthing, didn't develop hayfever till my mid to late 20's,to be honest my view is there are probably many varied causes. Goatboy as for having Measles party's all well and good for most not all, I dont have a choice were my kids go to school, as the parents send there children to school ill or not even when the rules state not to. This lead to my son and two daughters getting measles my two daughters had it like most kids, my son was severely ill for a few weeks and was taken to hospital at one stage so I certainly don't condom partys for such things.

 

[Corso]

got to love auto spell check

 

[Toddy]

I had to look for that

M

 

[British Red]

....well it is about figuring out causes of disease and their prevention.....

 

[Toddy]

Funnily enough, HWMBLT forwarded me a link from Son1 on this very topic of allergies.

http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2014/08/gut-microbe-stops-food-allergies

cheers,
M

 

[Corso]

can't argue theres an over use of antibiotic's

can't say I've ever taken any myself but they are often miss prescribed either by poorly trained GP's or because patients demanding some form of 'treatment' whether its appropriate or not...

 

[santaman2000]

can't argue theres an over use of antibiotic's

can't say I've ever taken any myself but they are often miss prescribed either by poorly trained GP's or because patients demanding some form of 'treatment' whether its appropriate or not...

Prescribed by "physicians"? As a "treatment?" My dentist has prescribed them prior to dental surgery to preempt infection. And he was only following protocol.

 

[ozzy1977]

Our eldest son was born allergic to Milk and egg, he has to go everywhere with a med kit with epipens, with out the medical knowledge we have today he probably would not have seen his second Christmas due to them so it is safe to say that 200 years ago many would have died due to the last of knowledge

 

[Corso]

Prescribed by "physicians"? As a "treatment?" My dentist has prescribed them prior to dental surgery to preempt infection. And he was only following protocol.

how odd - had plenty of work and never been given any to preempt an infection - doesn't sound like helpful practice to me - was out all your natural flora so theirs room for the nasty stuff to grow - better off swabbing the area to check their is something worth getting rid of first

although chucking out of patent antibiotics down your neck is probably cheaper than sending a sample to the lab....

 

[Fluffydave]

The Horizon program was on last night, worth a watch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04g507y/horizon-20142015-5-allergies-modern-life-and-me

 

[santaman2000]

how odd - had plenty of work and never been given any to preempt an infection - doesn't sound like helpful practice to me - was out all your natural flora so theirs room for the nasty stuff to grow - better off swabbing the area to check their is something worth getting rid of first

although chucking out of patent antibiotics down your neck is probably cheaper than sending a sample to the lab....

I doubt cost was a factor (I have good insurance) It wasn't a minor procedure either; I had a tooth replaced with an implant. That involves:
-pulling the original tooth
-waiting about 8 to 10 weeks for the aea to heal
-placing the steel implant post
-waiting another 6 to 8 weeks for the bone to "grab" the implant
-and finally, crowning the implant

The biggest infection risk is in the first few weeks of extraction when there's a food and debris catching hole in the back of your mouth (the filthiest part of the human body) out of reach of any good cleaning (which would have had to have been done at least 3 times daily to be effective.

Like you, I thought it odd when he first prescribed them, but on reflection, I understood.

And did I mention just how painful my mouthwash was when it hit that open hole!? :aargh4:

 

[Corso]

funny enough had a wisdom tooth pulled under local and a second tooth rebuilt at the same time a couple of years back - no antibiotics just a piece of sterile cotton wool to bit down on for an hour until the bleeding stopped...

right as rain in 2 weeks...

 

[santaman2000]

had a wisdom tooth pulled under local and a second tooth pulled at the same time a couple of years back - no antibiotics just a piece of sterile cotton wool to bit down on for an hour until the bleeding stopped...

right as rain in 2 weeks...

Yeah; same here when I had a wisdom tooth pulled. Next one won't be under a "local" though. It took the dentist over an hour and a half to get it out, and he had to chisel it into 3 bits to do it.

I remember it got me a two day duty excuse ( turned out to be a 4 day weekend because of the timing) and a script for Percodan. Don't remember any script for antibiotics then though, but that was back in the mid 1980s so my memory is a bit fuzzy. His exact orders were, "Stop at the Bx for orange juice, go to your dorm, pop a pill, and hibernate."