rules

[telwebb]

If this is in the wrong place please feel free etc.

"Its been resolved by my parents being sent the knife and they are responsible for it. Many bushcrafters teach children as young as 7 to use knives and I also believe it is important to distinguish the difference between a tool and a weapon. Im a scout young leader (one that actually runs a lot of meetings rather than sitting back and "helping") and I teach a lot of knife safety. We regularly use knives with scouts and cubs to cook, carve (The troop recently invested in some spoon knives), cut things e.g. rope, prepare tinders for fire and much more. I have been brought up with knife safety and have possessed one since I was 8. I now have a selection of knives I use safely on a regular basis and have never seriously hurt myself (no more than a slight nick). So im sorry telwebb but I couldn't disagree more with you. I'm actually quite shocked and not the attitude I would have expected from a bushcrafter who usually are keen to promote their hobby and spread knowledge with all people from all backgrounds."

the above quoted for clarity ....

This issue was raised in the 'gift-it-on' thread and I'm sure my stance will not endear me to many, but a rule is a rule and I'm made to adhere to them so …

The original post stated over 18s because that is the legal requirement for blades. The impeccable qualifications of the person on the receiving end are unfortunately irrelevant – were it not so we'd end up in an impossible classification situation. My attitude has nothing to do with it – I'd love the receiving party to possess and use – safely - as many blades as possible, but that has nothing to do with promoting bushcraft or spreading knowledge – and definitely nothing to do with backgrounds! Nothing personal but, as I said, a rule is a rule … we either adhere to them or not.

Cheers

Tel

 

[Toddy]

I don't see your stance as a problem.
The law states the ages at which one my purchase, buy or otherwise receive a knife.
If your opening post was clear, then the young man was in breech by suggesting he be sent a knife.

I'm all for encouraging and teaching, but the young themselves are as responsible for not misrepresenting their ages, and/or potentially putting other people in a bad situation.

Happily the matter appears to be resolved.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[sapper1]

It was Ogri's gift and Ogri's rules,that gives him the right to deal with the knife and recipient as he sees fit.He's dealt with it in a way that satisfies him so that should be an end to it.If you're not happy with the way the gift it on is run ,don't take part and don't expect others to do things just to keep you happy.Everybody else is happy with the way this has been handled.
Time to let it go now.

 

[telwebb]

It was Ogri's gift and Ogri's rules,that gives him the right to deal with the knife and recipient as he sees fit.He's dealt with it in a way that satisfies him so that should be an end to it.If you're not happy with the way the gift it on is run ,don't take part and don't expect others to do things just to keep you happy.Everybody else is happy with the way this has been handled.
Time to let it go now.

'Everybody else' isn't entirely accurate, and its a law - not a personal choice. I don't expect support - though I have already received some - but I am as entitled to state my position as anyone.

 

[RM27]

From what i understand they know each other and thats the reason why the age limit of 18 tho set was not adhered to, that does make it somewhat unfair to anyone who was under the age of 18 and wanted the item but stuck to the word given in the offer.
However whats done is done, can learn from it.

Looking forward to 2011 Gift-it-on

 

[georann]

Well seeing as Im the "young man" in question Id just like to add my two penneth.
I thank sapper1 for his positive attitude. I admit it was my mistake accepting the gift, I overlooked that Im not yet 18, being so used to knives and also the desire to possess said knife (things dont hang around like that for long in gift it on). The issue has been resolved peacefully and the thread has kept rolling so I don't see a problem. I just felt a bit offended when telwebb said "must admit to still being a little uncomfortable with the knife/age situation. I'm sure it's been resolved to the satisfaction of the parties concerned but I wouldn't be over happy myself" which I interpreted as him not being trusting of under 18s with knives. As i stated in my reply, I thought bushcraft was an open-for-all sort of activity that promoted safe usage of dangerous tools and just generally liked to welcome anyone who was interested in joining. Thats the attitude Ive always taken to my scouts and people alike who I have only encouraged to join in. I would like to add before any criticism, thank you telwebb for clearing up my interpretation of your comment and I am more accepting of it now. Id be welcome to discuss anyone elses opinions as its a topic I feel quite passionately about and would like to apologise to any parties offended, upset, inconvenienced or otherwise perturbed by the incident, Im just glad its all been cleared up and I will soon be in posession of a wonderfully crafted knife

 

[georann]

From what i understand they know each other and thats the reason why the age limit of 18 tho set was not adhered to, that does make it somewhat unfair to anyone who was under the age of 18 and wanted the item but stuck to the word given in the offer.
However whats done is done, can learn from it.

Looking forward to 2011 Gift-it-on

Nope, never met the guy, I was just a bit of an eager beaver with my claiming of the gift, and then hoped it could be sorted by parental consent which was a solution in the end.

 

[RM27]

Well seeing as Im the "young man" in question Id just like to add my two penneth.
I thank sapper1 for his positive attitude. I admit it was my mistake accepting the gift, I overlooked that Im not yet 18, being so used to knives and also the desire to possess said knife (things dont hang around like that for long in gift it on). The issue has been resolved peacefully and the thread has kept rolling so I don't see a problem. I just felt a bit offended when telwebb said "must admit to still being a little uncomfortable with the knife/age situation. I'm sure it's been resolved to the satisfaction of the parties concerned but I wouldn't be over happy myself" which I interpreted as him not being trusting of under 18s with knives. As i stated in my reply, I thought bushcraft was an open-for-all sort of activity that promoted safe usage of dangerous tools and just generally liked to welcome anyone who was interested in joining. Thats the attitude Ive always taken to my scouts and people alike who I have only encouraged to join in. I would like to add before any criticism, thank you telwebb for clearing up my interpretation of your comment and I am more accepting of it now. Id be welcome to discuss anyone elses opinions as its a topic I feel quite passionately about and would like to apologise to any parties offended, upset, inconvenienced or otherwise perturbed by the incident, Im just glad its all been cleared up and I will soon be in posession of a wonderfully crafted knife

Well said

 

[Toddy]

Nicely said

I think perhaps something to bear in mind for the future threads though.
It's not that we 'don't trust' the individual, it's rather that the law is pretty black and white.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Harvestman]

I've just been arguing with myself about whether I should add to this discussion or not, as I can see it getting out of hand, but in the end I think I agree with telewebb.

I have no particular problem with georann owning, handling or using a knife. I think he comes across sincerely as a responsible and sensible person who will do enormous justice to a quality bushcraft blade. However, the problem isn't so much the 'forum rules', as the law itself. If BCUK could be seen to have facilitated the illegal supply of a knife to a person under 18 years old, then this website could get into trouble. I don't think that will happen, as it will all blow over soon, but I don't like the idea that my favourite website could be seen to be doing stuff that could give bushcraft (and responsible blade users) a bad name.

In the end, however much what was done is to the satisfaction of the people concerned, and other observers, it wasn't within the specified forum rules, and it probably wasn't legal. We can't start bending the rules on the basis of "He's a good bloke, it will be ok".

That said, I hope this dies down soon.

 

[georann]

See now thats the wonderful attitude I've always encountered with bushcrafters. Just a little message to all you guys out there, you're great! (in fact I may even write a thank you thread). Whatever the problem, if I've (or anyone else) needed help, guidance, tips, a chat, a good laugh or anything of the sort bushcrafters always seem to be great and thats something you don't get with every hobby out there. Everyone just seems so welcoming

 

[telwebb]

As I hope I made clear this wasn't an attack on you, or a suggestion of you not being a capable and trustworthy individual. I was only trying to point out that if we are to have rules then they should - at least openly - be adhered to. Enjoy your aquisition

 

[georann]

In the end, however much what was done is to the satisfaction of the people concerned, and other observers, it wasn't within the specified forum rules, and it probably wasn't legal. We can't start bending the rules on the basis of "He's a good bloke, it will be ok".

That said, I hope this dies down soon.

Oh just to bring a close to this, my parents are receiving the knife from Ogri just as if they had bought it. Its for them, posted to them, and yes they may let me use it but thats perfectly OK in the eyes of the law

 

[John Fenna]

I expressed an interest in the knife - I was too slow in seeing the post in which it was offered and G got there first - but it was no biggie to me (I have too many knives anyway) and I was happy that a piece by my old mate Ogri was going to a good home
The emerging fact that the recipient was under 18 proved a bit of a poser... how could Ogri and G resolve the 18 year legal ballony thing?
The final solution arrived at seems simple and elegant to me
Sending the knife to Gs parents lets Ogri off any legal problems, sticks to the letter of the law but also holds to the ethos of the Gift It On thread.
If Gs parents are cool with it, laws and rules are adhered to (if by clever interpretation of the actual words to facilitate fellicity) and the thread continues to spread good will - then in my eyes...all well and good
I will continue to haunt the GIT

 

[JonathanD]

The law states that it is illegal to buy a knife if you are under 18. It is also illegal to sell a knife to anyone under 18. It is NOT illegal to gift a knife to someone under 18 and as there is no exchange of goods between the parties involved on a bartering basis in the Gift-It-On thread, it is legal.

 

[sapper1]

The law states that it is illegal to buy a knife if you are under 18. It is also illegal to sell a knife to anyone under 18. It is NOT illegal to gift a knife to someone under 18 and as there is no exchange of goods between the parties involved on a bartering basis in the Gift-It-On thread, it is legal.

This read with my post should clear up the matter to every legal and personal point of view.

 

[ph5172]

It is not technically illegal to 'gift' a blade (as long the said blade is not a prohibited item) but only to sell to anyone under 18.
If it was, anyone giving a blade to a minor (farther - son and the like) would technically render both parties subject to an illegal act.

I feel the parental consent was a good call, and i do not think that any age related misrepresentation was intentional, but lessons should be learnt

EDIT- Beaten by a couple of others

 

[telwebb]

I have nothing to add

 

[Harvestman]

See now thats the wonderful attitude I've always encountered with bushcrafters. Just a little message to all you guys out there, you're great! (in fact I may even write a thank you thread). Whatever the problem, if I've (or anyone else) needed help, guidance, tips, a chat, a good laugh or anything of the sort bushcrafters always seem to be great and thats something you don't get with every hobby out there. Everyone just seems so welcoming

I agree with this completely. With the other posts above, I'm happy about this one. I think lessons have been learned. Issue resolved, I think.

Well done all.