Romance or Madness (of The Long Distance Defender Owner)?

[widu13]

The Army LRs have had a galvanised chassis for years. If LR had the common sense to galvanise all chassis (and other parts for that matter) or just not make them from mild steel they would keep a LOT more customers. I love Landies, I passed my test in a 90 (1/2 tonner) after learning in that and a 101 FC (One tonner). My last 4x4?- a Pajero! It was 18 years onld when I decided to let it go. To date, it was the best motor I've ever had.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Nothing beats a Jeep Wrangler for comfort and off road ability. Landies are great off road but you need deep pockets. And after a few hours on the road you are worn out.

Hear hear!:You_Rock_ :You_Rock_

 

[Nonsuch]

I find my Defender surprisingly comfortable and capable on road and great fun off and it is the last car I woudl ever sell. It's not in my view a primary family car, but as a spare fun car it's great.

I must say I think Land Rover dealers are hopeless and they are the biggest problem when it comes to Defenders, not the cars themselves (I will be trying out my fourth for my next service). When I first went into the franchised dealership in Perth and told them I wanted a nearly new Defender they tried to sell me a new Freelander (before the half-decent new model I should add)........I am still struggling to find a dealer, either franchised or independent who can do what I asked for, do a decent job at a decent price and want my business.

Highlights so far include :

- Perth LR dealer charing me £90 for "trying " for an hour unsuccessfully to plug their diagnostic computer into my Defender
- Stirling LR dealer refusing to collect and drop off my Defender even though I was paying top dollar for the service
- Well known Perthshire independent re-powder-coating parts on my Defender so badly they rusted to death in 12 months
- Well known Perthshire independent carrying out a very expensive 72K service when it had already been done and marked up in the service book

I've got a new dealer I'm going to try for the next service. Hope springs eternal

NS

 

[Klenchblaize]

Keep those Land Rover horror stories coming please!

I have concluded that my decision to purchase a Defender was based wholly on aesthetics (story of my life really) so in one sense this is my fault but I see no reason not to at least try and embarrass Land Rover UK in pursuit of my plea for fair play!

Cheers

 

[EdS]

Y


To me the acid test is what people who need to be offroad professionally drive. Most farmers, gamekeepers, fencers etc. I know drive jap trucks for utility now. Things like a heater that works do matter to them when they are out in their vehicle for 12 hours at a time as does the fact that they cannot waste time constantly fixing and tinkering with the latest thing to fall off.

Most of the farmers in the Dales still drive LR (often reluctantly) - or quads - as the Jap stuff just doesn't do the job. The break like LR but are damned expensive to repair.

The other problem with alot of Jap motors is that they are to wide for many of the stone gate post - I knowe several where a Hilux will not fit or will tear the wheel arches off but a Defender will fit easily.

Agreed though at £20k plus for a "utility" vehicle you want better build quality and galvanising etc..

Slightly OT but since Iveco bought Santana out andthey are defo worth a look for a utility vehicle - though not sure how many they are bringing in to the UK

http://www.massif.iveco.com/?lang=en

 

[NickW]

Firstly hello to all.

Having now owned 3 Defenders (My current a Td5 Pickup) and done over 300,000 miles in them, the total of the faulty parts I have had in this time has been:

1. 3 rear mud flaps
2. Two bulbs
3. And then the usual bits that get changed on a service.

I have suffered with one breakdown, this was when I filled it with petrol when I as tired, I was in France and got confused

From my experience I would hardly call this an unreliable vehicle!

I am also not sure what people are reffering to as build quality? It's basically a truck, what exactly are you expecting?

 

[Klenchblaize]

I am also not sure what people are reffering to as build quality? It's basically a truck, what exactly are you expecting?

Not having to "take a NEW Defender to a specialist under body treatment plant as your 1st stop after leaving the showroom" would be a start.


Cheers!

 

[dr jones]

Well i have to to say im bias as i grew with and learnt to drive in a series landy , and ive bought one for myself last week . i agree that theyre not perfect or super reliable or cheep to run but there is a lot of nostalgia for me . i dont think theyre worthy of the slating some are giving them , they are no worse than owning a morris minor or and old beetle.The other reason i opted for one was i got fed up of having to take my wifes car to the garage to be "diagnosed " . At least with the landy i can fix things with the tools ive got. The fans may be moving over to the japanese trucks now , but it makes me smile to think that most of the roads /trails in far flung corners of the globe were conquered and mapped with the help of landrovers .

 

[NickW]

Not having to "take a NEW Defender to a specialist under body treatment plant as your 1st stop after leaving the showroom" would be a start.


Cheers!

I bought two new ones and 03 and an 06, the one I have now is second hand, an 04. None of mine have rust and I didn't kleentec them or whatever it's called.

I imagine if I had bought a new one like you and it's rusty underneath I wouldn't be too impressed. Have you been onto any Landy forums to see if this is a known issue with the new ones? I assume by new you are talking about the one with the tranny engine and not the TD5?

 

[Klenchblaize]

No, its a TD5 bought new in late 2005. Keeping on top of the rust has been a constant battle from day one. This cannot be right.

Happy to accept any amount of discomfort and inconvenience inherent in the design of the Defender but draw the line in the matter of a manufacturing process that cannot adequately seal a bright metal chassis and with something that does not dissolve into rust within weeks of leaving the showroom.

The dealership agreed to waxoil it under warranty but as I suspected they ignored the key component of this undertaking if to be meaningful that is the prepwork required to remove surface rust before applying the gunk.

The latest concern is that there has been a golden bloom behind the rear crossmember paint/coating for some time and has now revealed itself in full as rust that could have only been there when the chassis was coated!

Land Rover UK's so-called Customer Relationship Centre have replied to my formal communiqué but have avoided making any comment on the key concern with heavy reference to the obvious that is the vehicle is now out of warranty.

You can be sure though that Klench will not let them off the hook that easily without a fight!

Cheers

 

[86inch]

Good luck with your challenge!

I think you may have a "dud".... The chassis on my 14 year old 110 is still excellent. The rear crossmember is just starting to rust. It doesn't look like its had anything on it since it left the factory.

Still, you could always sell it, recovering a huge portion of your initial outlay, and buy something else?
I doubt it will have lost much value.

 

[NickW]

I agree it does sound like a dud. Not a good experience for you though all the same. Good luck with customer services I know if I was in your position I would making a PITA of myself.

 

[Landy_Dom]

I've run many many landies over the years - always old tired dogs, and I think a theme is emerging here - they will last - some of mine were forty years old! - but you have to put in a little work. "ordinary" car buyers do not understand this, and things like waxoyling the chassis are seen (probably quite rightly) as a PITA. If you put in a little preventative maintenance and fix things yourself (simple on an old landie) then they are dirt cheap to own and run.

If land rover galvanised chassis / door frames / bulkheads / body cappins etc then they'd be absolutely phonomenal (but perhaps they's never sell another new one????)

Dom.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Yep, but for now they must remain phenomenally rusty!

Cheers

 

[Landy_Dom]

unless you slavishly waxoyl them, yeah

My long term plan is to rebuild an old one on galv chassis etc - best of all worlds

Dom.

 

[86inch]

unless you slavishly waxoyl them, yeah

My long term plan is to rebuild an old one on galv chassis etc - best of all worlds

Dom.

Do it! As per my handle, i used to have a not very original 86" Series One that i completely rebuilt on a galvanised chassis, It has a galvanised bulkhead too... a 5 main bearing 2.25 petrol, Synchro box, pendulum pedals, parrots and lots of other user friendly goodies. Mainly S3 running gear.
It was superb we went everywhere in it, but the onset of family life left it unused, so i sold it on. I wish to this day i hadn't, but when the boys get older i can see myself doing it all again to an early Ninety or something.

This is one instance where Land Rovers don't really have any peers... total and complete rebuildability, at very reasonable cost. My own 110 will be getting this treatment eventually, because it will be cheaper than buying a newer car, and it will last even longer.
Toyota pick ups and other japanese utility vehicles maybe reliable and last well, but they have a point in their life at maybe 12-14 years old when they are realistically worthless. So they will be scrapped. Compare that to your average Land Rover when at 12 years old are probably worth at least 30-40% of their purchase price and have a long future in front of them. We sold our original 90TD CSW for £4500, when it was 21 years old. The original purchase receipt was for just over £10K!

I'm often intrigued by the total slating Land Rovers get from all and sundry, but there is a question i often pose to them..... "if Land Rovers were so unreliable and rubbish, why are there so many old ones happily running around??"

I'm with Klenchblaize with that new ones shouldn't be rusty at only 4 years old. This is not on, but i'm always mystified as to why the consensus is that "Land Rovers are rubbish" when in reality, the evidence says otherwise?

 

[Adze]

I'm often intrigued by the total slating Land Rovers get from all and sundry

It's jealousy

 

[swagman]

The fans may be moving over to the japanese trucks now , but it makes me smile to think that most of the roads /trails in far flung corners of the globe were conquered and mapped with the help of landrovers .

As they say Landrover discovered Africa Toyota conquered it.

Says it all rearlly.

 

[EdS]

As they say Landrover discovered Africa Toyota conquered it.

Says it all rearlly.

Just dependson where you go - plenty of Africa where Nissan Patrols are teh car of choise. Its mostly down to marketing and dealer support - Lr can not even do that in the UK.

Other bits the Series 3 is the bush car of choise. Certainly in some parts with limited/ very rough roads that damage any car. Where my mate was the terrain damaged the cars - repair/rebuilds rapidly required even on new cars. Consensu was S3 or FJ40 (though rare) where the ones to go for as it'll be physically broken and rattled to death before "reliability" is an issue. You had to be able to field mend with 3 spanners, hammer , screwdrive , piece of wire and gaffa tape.

Unless of course you've got the full backing of UN etc or modern western town with a full modern workshop.

 

[Aristotle]

This is what people associate with Land Rovers:

This is what people associate with Toyota:

Which is more effective?............