Responsibility to future bushcrafters

[Chiseller]

Pint it is then 😉
As I said, I'm custodian of some land and will have my own trials and tribulations. I was a poacher before I was an underkeeper of 6600 acres. That taught me to look from both sides off the fence. Now I've acre that I'm living over.....this has already brought me tests due to its location.
Atb

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[susannewilliams]

In Law you do not have a right to loyter on a PRW either or for the purpose of sleep.

It was Andy Strangeway and according to Natural England he did have that legal right.

But always open to more evidence.

What is the factual basis of your view?

Could you get me some links or references?

Thanks

Susanne

 

[susannewilliams]

Pint it is then 😉
As I said, I'm custodian of some land and will have my own trials and tribulations. I was a poacher before I was an underkeeper of 6600 acres. That taught me to look from both sides off the fence. Now I've acre that I'm living over.....this has already brought me tests due to its location.
Atb

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No easy road - that of a custodian. You have my respect!

 

[boatman]

Just googled Medway Council's statement as to what you can do on a footpath:

What are my rights on a public right of way?
Your legal right is to "pass and repass along the way". You may stop to rest, admire the view, or consume refreshments, providing you stay on the path and do not cause an obstruction. You can also take with you a "natural accompaniment", which includes a pram or pushchair. You can also legally take a manual or powered wheelchair (mobility scooter) provided you follow the regulations for taking these vehicles on ordinary roads. However, there is no guarantee that the surface of the path will be suitable for pushchairs or wheelchairs. You can take a dog with you, but you must ensure it is under close control. Note that there is no requirement for stiles to be suitable for use by dogs.

 

[susannewilliams]

Actually - quite apart from talk about the definition of "camping", it is legally contested that CRoW actually prohibits wild camping AT ALL

Very interesting, this

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/category/magazine/?p=2078

 

[susannewilliams]

Just let's be clear here.
CRoW land.
National Trust land.
Sssi.
Private estate.
Farm.
Someone's garden.

All sorts of different situations.

Obviously be respectful and sensible.

Because respect and being sensible is what we are all about, right?


Anyway - we are branching into several different threads here really:
What really IS the Law?
Should that BE the Law?
Should one BREAK the Law?
How should one work to CHANGE the law?

But the main point of the original poster was not really that was it?

Bloody shambles and outrage what people do "in the name of bushcraft".

Tragic.
Ironic.
And needs crusading against.

Cheers

Susanne

(Who will be continuing to aggressively exercise her legal rights (most recently according to CRoW 2000) to the utmost extreme of their interpretation,
...as she has been doing for over 40 years,
...and as she would advise every responsible human to do
...and who has never yet been refused a night's stay on private land)

 

[Spaniel man]

To be fair Suzanne, that article was published in 2008, and applies to 'Open access land' which is very different to private land. There simply isn't a right to wild camp anywhere you want in England. Yet...
Legality is a different thing to the original point of this thread, and whether that is right or wrong is something the 'powers that be' and the access campaigners need to thrash out. In the meantime it is probably prudent just to advise forum members to seek permission, or do their own research into whether wild camping is permitted.
"I read it on a forum that it was okay" is not a valid excuse for trespass.

 

[susannewilliams]

To be fair Suzanne, that article was published in 2008, and applies to 'Open access land' which is very different to private land. There simply isn't a right to wild camp anywhere you want in England. Yet...
Legality is a different thing to the original point of this thread, and whether that is right or wrong is something the 'powers that be' and the access campaigners need to thrash out. In the meantime it is probably prudent just to advise forum members to seek permission, or do their own research into whether wild camping is permitted.
"I read it on a forum that it was okay" is not a valid excuse for trespass.

Fully agree.

I think our last posts crossed.

 

[mrcharly]

When I was young(ish), I used to go bushwalking in Australia with a club. They had self-written guides to walks in far-flung national parks and suchlike - the guides told you how to find decent camping places in the wilds, where the campfire was sited. Rather than spread ash around and make a mess (takes a long time to break down in the australian climate) they would place a large flat rock over the designated spot. People returning to the site were expected to use the same pit.

On the march if we stopped for a rest, a quick small pit would be dug, burn about ten 'pencils' of wood and you've boiled a billy, toasted some bread. Soak it with water, rebury the remaining ashes double check for embers, digging fingers through to be sure.

All of that has gone, because of a few careless people. You aren't allowed fires on any of those long-distance trails, it is a criminal offence. Not even in a contained stove. Liquid or gas stoves only. The trips were great, I learned a lot and had a great time.

Why? Because of bushfires started by campers and day-visitors.

So it's sad to hear that this sort of thing is happening in the UK. Not because of mass fires, but carelessness for the environment.

How old is the 'leave no trace' idea? Did it come from the Sierra Nevada club?

 

[boatman]

Is it possible that some of these careless, destructive "Bushcrafters" are alienated from their own country and its land by the very restrictions promoted here? They have no connection with it so why (in their minds) should they care for it?

 

[THOaken]

Is it possible that some of these careless, destructive "Bushcrafters" are alienated from their own country and its land by the very restrictions promoted here? They have no connection with it so why (in their minds) should they care for it?

Or they're just ignorant people who don't care at all about nature and just want to drink and do general hooligan activities in the woods away from prying eyes in towns and cities... I doubt it's the case that they have no connection to the land because of the restrictions. I doubt the cases stated in this thread have anything really to do with Bushcrafters, more just vandals and Rambo-wannabes.

 

[Spaniel man]

Is it possible that some of these careless, destructive "Bushcrafters" are alienated from their own country and its land by the very restrictions promoted here? They have no connection with it so why (in their minds) should they care for it?

Is that a question, or a inflammatory personal view?
It's nothing to do with people being "alienated against their own country", it's just assumption, ignorance, inconsideration, and downright laziness.

 

[THOaken]

Is that a question, or a inflammatory personal view?
It's nothing to do with people being "alienated against their own country", it just assumption, ignorance, inconsideration, and downright laziness.

I agree, Spaniel Man.

 

[boatman]

Is that a question, or a inflammatory personal view?
It's nothing to do with people being "alienated against their own country", it's just assumption, ignorance, inconsideration, and downright laziness.

I should have written countryside not country but ignorance etc. are symptoms, I was suggesting a possible cause and if a cause can found then a cure is possible. Much better than writing off a section of the population as somehow unworthy the enter the countryside.

 

[Tony]

Fantastic idea, unfortunately i'm only back over in the UK a few times a year so that's going to be difficult, but i think that's the right way to go



Have edited my post to remove any mentions of my illegally camping, hopefully that helps.

Just as a side, i think it's a difficult thing to police Mary there are no doubt many trip reports from many people wild camping on here, with very few mentioning if they had permission, even if they mention they have permission it's going to be extremely difficult to check to be sure.

So to take up the precedent of the forum being against all forms wild camping/trespassing means every trip report, outing and stop off at local woods will need to be checked to make sure permission was granted, as i say i think that's going to be tough to police.

I'm a member of several other outdoors, hiking, backpacking, mountain biking type forums and although the forums themselves don't encourage wild camping, it is reported back honestly without any bad publicity or detriment to the forum.

I can understand wanting to protect the name and integrity of the community, in my own personal opinion though i think it's a bit OCD in this case.

Hopefully my editing out the mention helps though.

I've come into this conversation late and as the one that's set the rules I'm the qualified on to comment on this.

Thanks for your opinion, and BCUK will stay as OCD as I want it to be.

Your editing out probably causes confusion and takes other posts out of context crating work to rectify, but your effort is appreciated.

 

[rik_uk3]

Who uses a **tent** for bushcrafting anyway?

(Well except for the party lavvu of course...)

Many bushcrafters Susanne, logically its a better form of shelter, 360 degree cover from wind and rain, dam sight better than a tarp which IMHO is really a very basic overnight shelter prone to problems. A tent everytime for many of us who want 'shelter' and not just cover. Just my pennies worth.

 

[Bluffer]

I'd say that if you're not using a tent, preferably a Hilleberg, then you're striking against the very heart and soul of British bushcraft, which is to emulate what you've seen Ray Mears doing on the telly?

 

[Toddy]

........or you're making a concerted effort to stay dry slug and midge, cleg, and tick, free.

The UK is wet; sodden wet.

Can we do it with very little kit ? or none ? yes.
Do we choose to ? for many, not if we can help it

Bushcraft = Chill out asap.

Toddy

 

[rg598]

I assume the "Bushcraft = Chill out asap" thing is a very personal definition. I've seen it said with some frequency here, but it's very different from my understanding of bushcraft. I hope it's not being asserted as an actual definition of bushcraft.

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[Toddy]

Oh, I assure you Ross, it certainly is

Go on then, tell me what yours is.

Bushcraft is a huge range of skills; personally I don't think there's enough 'craft' demonstrated, and I consider survival a subset of bushcraft.
But then, I turn my hand to most crafts and I rarely physically challenge myself to trog through -20C for fun.

Bushcraft = chill out asap.
Survival = get the hell out asap.

cheers,
Toddy