Respect...

[Xunil]

I took a couple of friends out recently and noticed a few things that I thought I'd mention:

1. a: Noise - lots of shouting and yelling, often when simply raising the voice slightly would have been enough.

1. b: Noise - lots of crashing and cracking of large branches.

1. c: Noise - sawing. Endless (or so it seemed( sawing.

2. Sawing - lots of unnecessary cutting, for shelter material and firewood

3. Snap, crackle, pop: excessive firewood used and the wrong type of wood in most cases for small, heat efficient fires.

4. Walking twice to the stream to collect water and then wash dishes (or vice versa) instead of making a single trip.

5. Litter - a cardinal sin in my book.

I don't buy into sawing 'neatly finished cuts' on any wood that simply doesn't need to be sawn. Bearing in mind they were both using tarps, you can carry poles without having to cut any at all and firewood, for the most part, can simply be dragged to where it needs to be.

I never knew two people could make that much noise and it was truly awful, ruining any chances of watching otters, foxes, badgers and whatnot.

Endless walking and back and forth to the stream instead of planned and efficient trips, and don't get me started in on the issue of litter.

I think some folks have lost a lot of respect for what it is we claim to do - our leisure interest is supposed to be about as low impact as it is possible to be, but more and more I am seeing folks a million miles away from the "leave nothing but footprints" ethic.

I always try to do my outdoorsy stuff with as little impact as possible to an area, and so fires are only lit where necessary and timber is gathered sympathetically, working with the immediate resources. I even try to be careful not to trudge a churned up muddy pathway in my comings and goings.

Am I treading too lightly or is there a shift going on for one reason or another ?

I can't help feeling that we are giving too much up if we leave behind the whole idea of doing this with the utmost respect to our surroundings and resources.

 

[Shewie]

I feel your pain, I have a couple of pals who are keen as mustard but any trips with them are never relaxing

 

[bb07]

I know what you mean. And sorry to get you going on litter but that happens to make my blood boil.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can carry in packages/containers/drinks or whatever, that are full and heavy, but can't take it back out when they're empty and lightweight.

 

[bearbait]

No, you're not treading too lightly. I think some people have forgotten how to "chill", for want of a better word. I've found sometimes just clicking the fastex buckle on my daysac to get at my lunch, or even a cough, or a foot breaking a twig or stirring some leaves, an intrusion into the noise of the wilderness (what some would call silence!).

We don't have all to be super efficient in resource usage (fat chance) but maybe you could introduce the Leave No Trace concept to your buddies, assuming they won't take it the wrong way. We're all on a path of learning and maybe you're their guide for this stage? I like to hike alone - probably because I've had similar experiences to yours.

There's quite a famous poem about taking the time to sit and watch, etc. I'm sure someone else can chip in with the reference. (Thanks.)

 

[Ch@rlie]

I would say education is the key, Im a noob when it comes to bushcraft,
however, the years of camping I have done, be it in the cubs, scouts, venture scouts, family holidays or fishing. The lessons, tips and tricks you learn on the way, make your journey & stay easier and more relaxing.
Its like most things, if you are not shown easier ways to do things, you continue to do things the way you believe you should, you wont ever know any different and live in ignorant bliss.
Half the time people dont realise there are easier ways of doing things or the fact they are spoiling the trip for other's by their ignorence.

Litter does my head in regardless of where I am. Leaving it is just pure disrespect for your suroundings..

 

[durulz]

There's quite a famous poem about taking the time to sit and watch, etc. I'm sure someone else can chip in with the reference. (Thanks.)

'Leisure' by William Henry Davies

 

[John Fenna]

It is strange but you can normally tell a "newbie" as they have yet to tune into the rythems of the woodland/wilderness experience...
Their camp routine has yet to be established so they waste time and effort, duplicating work, working inefficiently and in a messy way. Tools are left laying around, gear left exposed to potential rain, too much firewood cut, too much wood burned to no real end, headtorches are left on and used to blind others around the campfire, seats are placed to block sightlines between others around the campfire, gear placed in places that intrude into walkways, litter left around, unwanted noise is made, phones are left on (ok - sometimes that is unavoidable if people need to be contactable by dying relatives and other such events...)
In time those who "get it" adapt to the quiet existance....those who do not drift off to congregate with others of a like disposition ...or go back to the X-box existance!

Sometimes a rowdy session around the campfire (music, singing, jokes and noise etc) is welcome ...mostly however I like the quiet life in the woods, trying to blend in to the natural heartbeat of the area.

As the man said - education is the key!
Learning to respect others and the environment we are in is something that is being lost by the "I know my rights" generation......

 

[Ch@rlie]

It is strange but you can normally tell a "newbie" as they have yet to tune into the rythems of the woodland/wilderness experience...
Their camp routine has yet to be established so they waste time and effort, duplicating work, working inefficiently and in a messy way. Tools are left laying around, gear left exposed to potential rain, too much firewood cut, too much wood burned to no real end, headtorches are left on and used to blind others around the campfire, seats are placed to block sightlines between others around the campfire, gear placed in places that intrude into walkways, litter left around, unwanted noise is made, phones are left on (ok - sometimes that is unavoidable if people need to be contactable by dying relatives and other such events...)
In time those who "get it" adapt to the quiet existance....those who do not drift off to congregate with others of a like disposition ...or go back to the X-box existance!

Sometimes a rowdy session around the campfire (music, singing, jokes and noise etc) is welcome ...mostly however I like the quiet life in the woods, trying to blend in to the natural heartbeat of the area.

As the man said - education is the key!
Learning to respect others and the environment we are in is something that is being lost by the "I know my rights" generation......

Lmao ok I'm not a noob, as I dont do those things...

 

[sandbender]

"...seats are placed to block sightlines between others around the campfire..."

I hate that!

 

[Tiley]

I've found that it is generally the inexperienced who, when they arrive in their chosen patch of woodland, reckon that no-one and nothing is around to hear them so they make a disproportionate amount of noise. The greatest pleasure lies in getting oneself set up and established as quickly and quietly as possible and then, cuppa in hand, sitting back and listening to what the wood has to tell you through its numerous, diverse and subtle sounds. That really is relaxing!

Xunil, in no way are you treading too lightly; I fear that there are a good number of folk out there who would benefit from a bit of guidance when it comes to respect and, in this case, consideration.

 

[Fin]

In the Army the key phrase is "sorting your admin out" i.e. getting the maximum benefit from minimal effort. It starts with your kit - what you wear, carry and how it's packed. Admin also includes gaining permission, planning the logistics of the trip such as eating, sleeping, hygiene and an emergency plan (thinking of the "what ifs"). Admin can be taught but sadly too many people have to learn the hard way, through bad experience.

Also, (and I know I'm sounding more like my Dad with every passing year!) too many young people's idea of "camping" is to get wasted around a bonfire. I see the evidence of it all the time on my forays - especially at this time of year - the huge fire scar, damaged trees, beer cans/ bottles and disposable bar-b-ques everywhere...My summer packing list now contains an extra bin liner to clear up these sites.

As John's last sentence said, the "I know my rights" generation seem to have no concept of consideration - I don't blame them - I blame us - we've created a generation who are used to instant material gratification and well being with no concept of consequences.

Damm! I hate finishing on a low...!

 

[Xunil]

Glad to hear it's not just me then - I thought for a while that at (almost) 43 I had turned into a right old Victor Meldrew.

The odd thing is that I have been out with both of these chaps before, separately, and they behaved entirely differently. Perhaps it's the genetic herd animal pub-mentality kicking in ?

You know, when you put two or more blokes together and things get progressively more rowdy as the inevitable "I can do something waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more stupid/loud/obnoxious than that" competition kicks off in earnest...



Seriously though, what really surprised me was that separately they appear to 'know the game' and yet together, on this occasion, things unravelled noticeably. That probably just goes to show something...

 

[Johnnyboy1971]

To me its the simple things that annoy me the most. A couple of weekends ago as a family we visited a local tourist attraction. It was baking hot and busy as hell. As we walked along the edge of the river i was horrified to see the amount of people with disposable bbqs just sat on bare grass. The further we walked the more i noticed fire scar on the grass nfrom these things.

We sat for a couple of hours while my daughter paddled in the water and generally had fun exploring (que dora the explorer). On the return walk the amount of beer cans that were strewn all over was amazing, i had a bin liner in my pack for our own rubbish so collected as much as i could and got many strange looks for doing so. As we got closer to the carpark i also noticed a large pile of eaten chicken legs just thrown on the floor. Now without without wanting to blame anyone for this but the area is patrolled by the local rangers, why dont they say anything to the offending people especially when there is a dedicated bbq area even more so on a scorching hot day.

Anyway rant over but this sort of action makes my blood boil. A single bin bag per car that will take up no room at all would have made the place 100% litter free if only people could be arsed.

 

[ex member mick sturbs]

I am very lucky as i have Dartmoor literally on my doorstep , and because it is too much effort for the jolly up crowd to walk from where they can park , we dont get the bbq scarring ,beer can thing , but not 5 miles away is a beautiful spot (now spoiled) called Spitchwick, and the area everybody sits looks like a dalmation ! dont go there anymore breaks my heart . The one thing i cant get my head around is the food and drink containers are considerably heavier on the way there and once consumed weigh a fraction ? so why not carry back ?.. think this thread could run a while yet !!

 

[HHazeldean]

I agree with what you are saying, Bushcraft is as much about a respect for the environment and its inhabitants as it is about more 'bushcrafty' type stuff that is normally considered on this forum. Nice post...

 

[Johnnyboy1971]

Just want to appologise to Xunil for pushing the thread off line. I understand what is being said thats why whenever i go out i prefer to be alone that way there is no way i can get distracted from why im there in the first place.

If you need fire and i usually have a gas stove with me, im sure its much easier to collect fallen timber than getting the saw/axe out and burning calories by chopping or sawing.

I want to keep the noise down not just because i like it that way but dont want joe public knowing im there and then asking dumb questions like why you sat in a hammock or 'who do you think you are Ray Mears'

I just want to enjoy my own little world and escape the world of idiots.

 

[Dangerous Dan]

i had a bin liner in my pack for our own rubbish so collected as much as i could and got many strange looks for doing so.

Going slightly off topic but it's not uncommon to get funny looks while collecting rubbish. Just because you didn't drop it doesn't mean you should ignore it.

 

[Tengu]

I think there is a good modern work for it

Lack of Ergonomics

 

[Zingmo]

This happened a few weeks ago:

Me to man leaving shop: "Excuse me you've dropped something!"
Man: "It's alright it's just rubbish."
Me: "Aren't you going to pick it up?"
Man: "No"
Me: "That means someone else is going to have to clear up after you" ( I had just been talking to the little old lady who struggles with her arthritic back who does pick up the litter there).
Man: "Yep! It sure does!"

I was stunned. I was about to ask how he could get on in life with the need for a nanny to pick up after him like a toddler, but he got into a sleek new Audi and drove off. I wondered what kind of job would pay you well for letting others clean up your mess. Then it struck me - banker!



No Xunil, you're not wrong. IMHO "leave no trace" should be the first and foremost mantra of every activity (whether in the wilderness or not). If not, then soon every last bit of wilderness will be strewn with beer cans and plastic. The second should be to "tread softly"; make the least impression while you are there. (Is it really necessary to saw logs for a shelter when lighter sticks would do?)

I have noticed of late that in the Out & About posts there is seldom a photograph showing the campsite after it has been cleaned up. Surely this would be a matter of pride in a central skill of bushcraft.

If you find somewhere perfect, don't tell anyone!

Rant over.

Z

 

[John Fenna]

The woods I play in was actually used as a dump at some point in the past .....
I have started making a move on cleaning it up - I took out 3 bags of rubbish - mainly bottles but also a half size milk churn, a Po or "guzzunder", assorted scrap metal and some ancient sweetie wrappers.
The bicycle frame, tin bath, gone off sack of cement and old watertank are staying put for the while...
The badgers keep bringing more glass bottles to the surface but so far no collectible types!
The TA used to camp here and one of the items I found was an old "ammunition " boot...
Most of the rubbish is well away from where I camp...