"Infusions" of deadly nightshade, or extracts from the roots and leaves are frequently used in human medicine. The most frequent dilator used by opticians in eye tests is atropine, extracted from DN . Applied as a poultice to a sprained ankle is said to be very effective (see also comfrey). Working with a trained herbalist (herbal pharmacist) is as safe as working with a regular pharmacist. The real problems arise when persons with limited knowledge (like me) jump in with both feet regardless of the risk. That's why I stick to ibuprofen (in fairly small doses). As toddy states, it is no bad thing for bushcrafters to become familiar with their surroundings and using them to maximum benefit. Just be careful and learn properly.
Red willow pain reliever
- Thread starter ThreeFires
- Start date
Good points everyone,
It would not be wise to take any medicine; storebought, doctor prescribed, or otherwise without first conducting your own research to ensure the drug is safe for "you". I wouldn't recommend anyone take a drug, natural or otherwise, if they were unsure of it's safe use.
I have done my research and feel perfectly comfortable taking red willow bark fresh off the plant at any time of year for pain relief, yes, the dosage does vary based on time of season. this is not a matter of me wanting to promote natural medicine over synthetic, I'm not an herbalist and stand nothing to gain from someone choosing natural over synthetic. I don't sell the stuff!
Also, as I stated in the OP, i'm not a doctor either. It' is a matter of me wanting to offer an alternative to medicines that are proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe and even in some cases cause death, namely aspirin and NSaids.
Now, if you just go out in the woods willy nilly and start eating undefined amounts of these plants without doing any research of your own that most certainly will spell disaster. I use multiple sources for my info, and never rely on one source to tell me what to do. i certainly wouldn't rely on a youtube video to tell me how to use a plant.
There is plenty of well proven medical and scientific research out there to support the safe use of red willow bark, or any other salicin containing plant, all you have to do is look for it. If anyone is unsure of the safe use of any natural medicine all they have to do is ask an herbalist for clarification on the subject.
Thanks everyone for the discussion,
It would not be wise to take any medicine; storebought, doctor prescribed, or otherwise without first conducting your own research to ensure the drug is safe for "you". I wouldn't recommend anyone take a drug, natural or otherwise, if they were unsure of it's safe use.
I have done my research and feel perfectly comfortable taking red willow bark fresh off the plant at any time of year for pain relief, yes, the dosage does vary based on time of season. this is not a matter of me wanting to promote natural medicine over synthetic, I'm not an herbalist and stand nothing to gain from someone choosing natural over synthetic. I don't sell the stuff!
Also, as I stated in the OP, i'm not a doctor either. It' is a matter of me wanting to offer an alternative to medicines that are proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe and even in some cases cause death, namely aspirin and NSaids. Now, if you just go out in the woods willy nilly and start eating undefined amounts of these plants without doing any research of your own that most certainly will spell disaster. I use multiple sources for my info, and never rely on one source to tell me what to do. i certainly wouldn't rely on a youtube video to tell me how to use a plant.
There is plenty of well proven medical and scientific research out there to support the safe use of red willow bark, or any other salicin containing plant, all you have to do is look for it. If anyone is unsure of the safe use of any natural medicine all they have to do is ask an herbalist for clarification on the subject.
Thanks everyone for the discussion,
Ah.....
I was with you all the way there, TheeFires, until the bit where you said "It' is a matter of me wanting to offer an alternative to medicines that are proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe and even in some cases cause death, namely aspirin and NSaids."
Proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe? Aspirin? Yet taking the active ingredient that hasn't been prepared in lab conditions and might therefore contain all number of potential harmful additions, with no real quantification of the dosage of the active ingredient actually being ingested - is a "safe" alternative?
Sure you can kill yourself with massive overdoses of aspirin. But you can also kill yourself by drinking massive quantities of water. And yes, aspirin might be contra-indicated in some cases, but then so would taking it in its "natural" format. And shop-bought aspirin won't have been urinated on by a rat with Weiles Disease
I have nothing whatsoever against natural/herbal remedies, provided it's not just snake-oil stuff, and the dispensers of such have a thorough understanding of its usage (which includes being aware of its possible risks when used in conjunction with other medication being taken). After all, much of modern medicine was based on the analysis of such herbs, the identification of the active ingredients, extensive testing to identify safe dosages, and the preparation of these in laboratory conditions to ensure non-contamination with undesirable elements. But it does worry me when scare tactics are used to frighten people off stuff like aspirin onto potentially much more dangerous "natural" remedies, particularly when the basic chemistry is exactly the same!
I was with you all the way there, TheeFires, until the bit where you said "It' is a matter of me wanting to offer an alternative to medicines that are proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe and even in some cases cause death, namely aspirin and NSaids."
Proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe? Aspirin? Yet taking the active ingredient that hasn't been prepared in lab conditions and might therefore contain all number of potential harmful additions, with no real quantification of the dosage of the active ingredient actually being ingested - is a "safe" alternative?
Sure you can kill yourself with massive overdoses of aspirin. But you can also kill yourself by drinking massive quantities of water. And yes, aspirin might be contra-indicated in some cases, but then so would taking it in its "natural" format. And shop-bought aspirin won't have been urinated on by a rat with Weiles Disease
I have nothing whatsoever against natural/herbal remedies, provided it's not just snake-oil stuff, and the dispensers of such have a thorough understanding of its usage (which includes being aware of its possible risks when used in conjunction with other medication being taken). After all, much of modern medicine was based on the analysis of such herbs, the identification of the active ingredients, extensive testing to identify safe dosages, and the preparation of these in laboratory conditions to ensure non-contamination with undesirable elements. But it does worry me when scare tactics are used to frighten people off stuff like aspirin onto potentially much more dangerous "natural" remedies, particularly when the basic chemistry is exactly the same!
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Ah.....
I was with you all the way there, TheeFires, until the bit where you said "It' is a matter of me wanting to offer an alternative to medicines that are proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe and even in some cases cause death, namely aspirin and NSaids."
Proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe? Aspirin? Yet taking the active ingredient that hasn't been prepared in lab conditions and might therefore contain all number of potential harmful additions, with no real quantification of the dosage of the active ingredient actually being ingested - is a "safe" alternative?
Sure you can kill yourself with massive overdoses of aspirin. But you can also kill yourself by drinking massive quantities of water. And yes, aspirin might be contra-indicated in some cases, but then so would taking it in its "natural" format. And shop-bought aspirin won't have been urinated on by a rat with Weiles Disease
I have nothing whatsoever against natural/herbal remedies, provided it's not just snake-oil stuff, and the dispensers of such have a thorough understanding of its usage (which includes being aware of its possible risks when used in conjunction with other medication being taken). After all, much of modern medicine was based on the analysis of such herbs, the identification of the active ingredients, extensive testing to identify safe dosages, and the preparation of these in laboratory conditions to ensure non-contamination with undesirable elements. But it does worry me when scare tactics are used to frighten people off stuff like aspirin onto potentially much more dangerous "natural" remedies, particularly when the basic chemistry is exactly the same!
Aspirin and NSiads cause stomach issues with repeated doses, these issues can be lethal. This is well understood by doctors and anyone that has to take them long term. Meadowsweet is used by medical herbalists to treat stomach ulcers. so in some ways one of the natural herbal source of aspriin is safer than the allopathic drug, however and it is a big however using meadowsweet to treat stomach ulcers and any someways any longterm repeated use of any internal herb should only be under the advice of someone qualified.
Herbal medicine isnt just about taking a plant that contains one chemical, it contains several related chemicals that work in slightly differant ways. They arent more dangerous, but they aren't a fluffy ultra safe alturnative either. personnally I cringe when people say it is natural so it totally safe. Saying that the drug companies are hardly the paragons of virtue and honest buisness practice. Personally I prefer to know what I put into my body has been used for good while and to be told honestly is their any issues with it, i know when I take herbs what they are.
Knowledge of how to use willow and such is useful as a "get home" medicine. I only use the soft tip of branch, chew it until I taste it and spit on effected area. It is has treated wood ant bites, toothache, blisters, sprained ankles and headaches for well enough to either get to better medicine or a simply outright cure. It isn't replacement it is just a piece of knowlegde that makes things comfier so you can get to the car, house, or pharmacy.
Don't disagree with any of that xylaria, particularly as you emphasise knowing what you're doing first, before partaking in herbal remedies! And Of course there can be side-effects for a few with long-term use of aspirin in pill-form, particularly if used against medical advice. (And one can equally say that many have allergic reactions - sometimes fatal - to peanuts, or wheat, or dairy products, or sugar, or anything containing Salmonella, or pollen, or bee or wasp stings - the list is endless ) But to say aspirin is "proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe" is misrepresentation of the highest order. And it is that type of comment which requires challenging.
Whilst I'm in rant mode, I might as well also respond to the "norm" of attacking the pharmaceutical companies. Yes, they are, in the main, profit-driven. But they are also responsible for absorbing huge expenses in funding pure research and developing new drugs, the vast majority of which never make it past final government approval and into the market place. And if I'm ever bitten by a rabid animal r tick, develop TB, or catch any of the hundreds or thousands of other diseases only treatable effectively by modern medicine, I'll be delighted I won't have to rely on prayer to survive!
) But to say aspirin is "proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe" is misrepresentation of the highest order. And it is that type of comment which requires challenging.Whilst I'm in rant mode, I might as well also respond to the "norm" of attacking the pharmaceutical companies. Yes, they are, in the main, profit-driven. But they are also responsible for absorbing huge expenses in funding pure research and developing new drugs, the vast majority of which never make it past final government approval and into the market place. And if I'm ever bitten by a rabid animal r tick, develop TB, or catch any of the hundreds or thousands of other diseases only treatable effectively by modern medicine, I'll be delighted I won't have to rely on prayer to survive!
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
This might lighten your mood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmEc8rd_Nw&feature=related
It also might slightly break the family content rules, but it takes a very educated dig at drug companies
I could have the most almightly rant about drug companies inventing diseases to suit a drug, manipulating research, abusive trails in the third world, manipulating epidemics and morally absent marketing but I would be here all night, and would only confince someone that already thinks the same way.
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Red willow certainly isn't "snake oil stuff", science has proven that.
I'm not dispensing Red willow.
but, there are folks online that dispense plenty of it, and for a fair sum of change.You suggest Red willow is potentially more dangerous than aspirin. Do you have examples of documented cases where it has been proven to be more dangerous than aspirin?
Honestly, I'm not here to debate the issue, but get the impression from your post that you are. So, please provide some facts to back up your side of the dabate.
Thanks,
Red willow certainly isn't "snake oil stuff", science has proven that.
I'm not dispensing Red willow.
You suggest Red willow is potentially more dangerous than aspirin. Do you have examples of documented cases where it has been proven to be more dangerous than aspirin?
Honestly, I'm not here to debate the issue, but get the impression from your post that you are. So, please provide some facts to back up your side of the dabate.
Thanks,
Actually, I didn't come here to debate the issue either, but to point out that scare tactics like several mentioned above (particularly the ""proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe" but not forgetting your own "Nsaids, and other over the counter pain relievers kill people annually at a pretty high rate") are deliberately or negligently misleading, particularly when your own recommendations on dosages refer to half-handfuls or handfuls!
It is certainly true that taking aspirin in handfuls - or even half-handfuls - would definitely be hazardous to one's health, but of course that is not the recommended dosage, and no medical practitioner would so advise.
However, back to the "unsafe" or "killer" aspirin. Have you any idea of how many aspirin tablets are produced/consumed annually? 100,000,000,000. One hundred BILLION a year. Thirty five hundred metric tonnes of the stuff. Annually. Want to guess how many cause death when taken according to medical advice? A minute fraction, these primarily being those on low-dose regimens to protect them from heart disease or strokes. Conversely, studies estimate that 45,000 deaths in the US alone would be prevented by a low-dose aspirin regimen http://www.rwjf.org/newsroom/product.jsp?id=21904
As I said before, i have absolutely no problem with people using herbal medicine, provided they know what they are doing, and not just following internet "advice" without understanding the pros and cons. But I do object to those spreading malicious or totally unfounded allegations against "proper" medicine, whether it is to "spread the word" about "natural healing, dislike of the big pharma companies, basic lack of knowledge, religious dogma or just a new age philosophy.
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Aspirin is now so contra indicated that it is not given at all to children under 12.
From a personal point of view I'm sitting here at 6.30am because I can't sleep for pain. RA has flared and I have had a very bad winter.....I can't take the aspirin or the ibuprofen because they have damaged my stomach and digestive system.......and I am 'very' careful and always have been of how I take them; so, I'm sitting here drinking meadowsweet tea.
It's slower, it's much gentler on my stomach and causes me no further pain or hurt, and it works.
The RA specialists though, they say, and I quote verbatim, "We have many, many tablets we can give you!"........and every damned one has contra indications that read like a nightmare.
I think the tablets are like clothing......one set of sizes covers everybody but fits none of us very well.
Herbal medicine, good herbal medicine, is tailored to fit the individual.
Modern medicine, and the associated pharmaceuticals are an incredible blessing, but there is no point pretending that the commercialism at their heart is not a hugely limiting factor as well as a driving force.
World wide though the natural medicine chest has hundreds of thousands of resouces, yet there is a data sheet compendium of the pharmaceuticals that is less than two inches thick.
Claims that because something has not been researched with full scientific rigour (and I have a science degree) somehow makes that remedy less effective, more dangerous, somehow a snakeoil, are total mince.
You'll maybe have guessed from this long post that my hands are functional again and the stairs no longer look like everest and I have no burning or wrenching in my guts
Sometimes alternative strategies are a very good thing indeed
cheers,
Toddy
From a personal point of view I'm sitting here at 6.30am because I can't sleep for pain. RA has flared and I have had a very bad winter.....I can't take the aspirin or the ibuprofen because they have damaged my stomach and digestive system.......and I am 'very' careful and always have been of how I take them; so, I'm sitting here drinking meadowsweet tea.
It's slower, it's much gentler on my stomach and causes me no further pain or hurt, and it works.
The RA specialists though, they say, and I quote verbatim, "We have many, many tablets we can give you!"........and every damned one has contra indications that read like a nightmare.
I think the tablets are like clothing......one set of sizes covers everybody but fits none of us very well.
Herbal medicine, good herbal medicine, is tailored to fit the individual.
Modern medicine, and the associated pharmaceuticals are an incredible blessing, but there is no point pretending that the commercialism at their heart is not a hugely limiting factor as well as a driving force.
World wide though the natural medicine chest has hundreds of thousands of resouces, yet there is a data sheet compendium of the pharmaceuticals that is less than two inches thick.
Claims that because something has not been researched with full scientific rigour (and I have a science degree) somehow makes that remedy less effective, more dangerous, somehow a snakeoil, are total mince.
You'll maybe have guessed from this long post that my hands are functional again and the stairs no longer look like everest
and I have no burning or wrenching in my guts Sometimes alternative strategies are a very good thing indeed
cheers,
Toddy
Why is any criticism of blatantly incorrect claims taken as an attack on herbal medicine overall? I have repeatedly stated that I have no problems with herbal medicines, if the individual is fully aware of what they are doing. It does not have to be one or the other!
However, interesting spin on contra-indication warnings. Every "professional" medicine I've ever taken in my life has come with contra-indication notes. And that is as it should be. Information is knowledge. Detailed research and review over a period of years has identified the risks, and provides such information in the packets. Why should that be regarded as a "bad thing"? Every packet of the 100,000,000,000 aspirins sold each year has them!
As for risk of herbal medicine - excluding the basic "portion control" issues of stuff picked in the wild, or possible contamination with pesticides/fertilisers and diseases carried in animal and bird droppings or urine - the University of Maryland gives some good advice.
Used correctly, herbs can help treat a variety of conditions, and in some cases, may have fewer side effects than some conventional medications. But because they are unregulated, herbal products are often mislabeled and may contain additives and contaminants that aren't listed on the label. Some herbs may cause allergic reactions or interact with conventional drugs, and some are toxic if used improperly or at high doses. Taking herbs on your own increases your risk, so it is important to consult with your doctor or pharmacist before taking herbal medicines. Some examples of adverse reactions from certain popular herbs are described below.
However, interesting spin on contra-indication warnings. Every "professional" medicine I've ever taken in my life has come with contra-indication notes. And that is as it should be. Information is knowledge. Detailed research and review over a period of years has identified the risks, and provides such information in the packets. Why should that be regarded as a "bad thing"? Every packet of the 100,000,000,000 aspirins sold each year has them!
As for risk of herbal medicine - excluding the basic "portion control" issues of stuff picked in the wild, or possible contamination with pesticides/fertilisers and diseases carried in animal and bird droppings or urine - the University of Maryland gives some good advice.
Used correctly, herbs can help treat a variety of conditions, and in some cases, may have fewer side effects than some conventional medications. But because they are unregulated, herbal products are often mislabeled and may contain additives and contaminants that aren't listed on the label. Some herbs may cause allergic reactions or interact with conventional drugs, and some are toxic if used improperly or at high doses. Taking herbs on your own increases your risk, so it is important to consult with your doctor or pharmacist before taking herbal medicines. Some examples of adverse reactions from certain popular herbs are described below.
- St. John's wort can cause your skin to be more sensitive to the sun's ultraviolet rays, and may cause an allergic reaction, stomach upset, fatigue, and restlessness. Clinical studies have found that St. John's wort also interferes with the effectiveness of many drugs, including the blood thinner warfarin (Couamdin), protease inhibitors for HIV, birth control pills, certain asthma drugs, and many other medications. In addition, St. John's wort should not be taken with prescribed antidepressant medication. The FDA has issued a public health advisory concerning many of these interactions.
- Kava kava has been linked to liver toxicity. Kava has been taken off the market in several countries because of liver toxicity.
- Valerian may cause sleepiness, and in some people it may even have the unexpected effect of overstimulating instead of sedating.
- Garlic, ginkgo, feverfew, and ginger, among other herbs, may increase the risk of bleeding.
- Evening primrose (Oenothera biennis) may increase the risk of seizures in people who have seizure disorders and bleeding in people with bleeding disorders or who take blood thinning medications, such as Coumadin (Warfarin).
No disagreement, but simply that the potions of the pharmacy are not the sum total of good stuff, and I think the individual needs to be much more aware of the falliblity of those medicines. That the recommendation is that I take three kinds of pills, one to stop the ache, one to protect my stomach from those pills, and a third to act as a joint support....that I've already had that screwed up liver function, but, "that should be sorted by now, so just to be taken and have regular blood tests", kind of says it all to me.
One elderly relation is now on 17 different pills 'every' day, I think by the time the doses are worked out she takes 53 pills in the day........y'know ? that's a lot of pharmaceutical profit, and half of those pills are only taken to ammeliorate the action of others.
People who use herbal medicines are very picky, usually, I know I am and most every other plantsperson among my friends is too. We talk of synergy, where the unrefined plant, not the purified out extract, is actually the better option. That's what means I can take meadowsweet but can't take aspirin.
But meadowsweet doesn't come in neat wee sterile and sealed in bubble pack boxes at an expense......it just grows and needs forethought and effort to collect and dry......it's a different kind of expense.
Your tone makes your posts seem confrontational; that's not what this thread was about. It was intended as informational, and mostly aimed at people like the OP who are interested in the use of herbal medicines.
Discussion does not need to come to a single agreement, not everyone would ever try anything but the pills, just as there are folks who distrust those pills and producers and would not ever countenance their use.
I happily admit I use both My son is alive because the onconolgists have the resources to kill cancer
Right now I'm damned uncomfortable because I trusted the pills
but the herbal materials are easing even that; not quickly, not in the twenty minutes that the pills took, but it's gentler and it's working
I've found a patch of the 'red willow' / red stemmed dogwood, and I'm going to ask if I can cut some for basketry, and I'll try the skin and see if that works too....options, always options, good things that don't leave damage behind, are worth knowing about
cheers,
Toddy
One elderly relation is now on 17 different pills 'every' day, I think by the time the doses are worked out she takes 53 pills in the day........y'know ? that's a lot of pharmaceutical profit, and half of those pills are only taken to ammeliorate the action of others.
People who use herbal medicines are very picky, usually, I know I am and most every other plantsperson among my friends is too. We talk of synergy, where the unrefined plant, not the purified out extract, is actually the better option. That's what means I can take meadowsweet but can't take aspirin.
But meadowsweet doesn't come in neat wee sterile and sealed in bubble pack boxes at an expense......it just grows and needs forethought and effort to collect and dry......it's a different kind of expense.
Your tone makes your posts seem confrontational; that's not what this thread was about. It was intended as informational, and mostly aimed at people like the OP who are interested in the use of herbal medicines.
Discussion does not need to come to a single agreement, not everyone would ever try anything but the pills, just as there are folks who distrust those pills and producers and would not ever countenance their use.
I happily admit I use both
My son is alive because the onconolgists have the resources to kill cancer Right now I'm damned uncomfortable because I trusted the pills
but the herbal materials are easing even that; not quickly, not in the twenty minutes that the pills took, but it's gentler and it's working I've found a patch of the 'red willow' / red stemmed dogwood, and I'm going to ask if I can cut some for basketry, and I'll try the skin and see if that works too
....options, always options, good things that don't leave damage behind, are worth knowing about cheers,
Toddy
4000 years of medicine:
2000 BC "Eat this root"
500 AD "That root is Pagan, say this prayer"
1800AD "That prayer is superstition, take this potion"
1900 ad "That potion os snake oil, take this pill"
1950 AD "That pill is not good enough, take this antibiotic"
2000 AD "Those pills are poison, eat this root"
2000 BC "Eat this root"
500 AD "That root is Pagan, say this prayer"
1800AD "That prayer is superstition, take this potion"
1900 ad "That potion os snake oil, take this pill"
1950 AD "That pill is not good enough, take this antibiotic"
2000 AD "Those pills are poison, eat this root"
Well with all this talk of willow pain relief I got told to gargle soluble aspirin to sort out a nasty throat infection from a cold. Seems it helps with a sore, bleeding and sleep preventing throat. Aspirin doesn't work for me for headaches as pains so I was sceptical but it has worked. The reason I say this it now makes me wonder if there is a good way to use natural sources of salicylic acid (active component of aspirin IIRC) in a similar way?? Can you produce a solution of the active ingredient of commercial aspirin from the willow? So far people are talking of chewing and sucking aa piece of bark. The commercial, soluble aspirin works well as a gargle but would natural willow do this? Would you soak the bark overnight for example to get a good infusion of the bark or is there another way to get a solution of the natural aspirin??
4000 years of medicine:
2000 BC "Eat this root"
500 AD "That root is Pagan, say this prayer"
1800AD "That prayer is superstition, take this potion"
1900 ad "That potion os snake oil, take this pill"
1950 AD "That pill is not good enough, take this antibiotic"
2000 AD "Those pills are poison, eat this root"
LOL! and so true. It's a vicious cycle.
It's not debating to point out the stupidity of "statements" that aspirin is "proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe" - I consider it a public service!
And another public service announcement - don't take St Johns Wort and expect the contraceptive pill to work
(My cousin found out the hard way that a natural medicine adviser wasn't clued up on contra-indications. Luckily she now has a delightful son, and didn't suffer any more serious side-effects from listening to a non-medical adviser about herbal treatments...)Here is some information from the University of Maryland school of Medicine on Willow, it's uses as a medicine and such.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/willow-bark-000281.htm
I believe they are a reputable source on the subject. I hope they are, because a lot of medical doctors throughout the world, pharmacists, neurologists, nurses and such were taught there.
That is just one example of many. There are many other reputable sources of information on the use of salicin containing plants on the web. Repautable meaning the information is provided by universities, medical doctors, and folks with Phd's and such. The University of Michigan has done several studies on Willow bark and other natural remedies for a wide variety of ailments with promising results using scientific measures; blind studies, placebos, etc. I'm sure there are similar studies being done in the UK by reputable people.
I never suggested anyone eat a whole handful of willow bark either. LOL!
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/willow-bark-000281.htm
I believe they are a reputable source on the subject. I hope they are, because a lot of medical doctors throughout the world, pharmacists, neurologists, nurses and such were taught there.
That is just one example of many. There are many other reputable sources of information on the use of salicin containing plants on the web. Repautable meaning the information is provided by universities, medical doctors, and folks with Phd's and such. The University of Michigan has done several studies on Willow bark and other natural remedies for a wide variety of ailments with promising results using scientific measures; blind studies, placebos, etc. I'm sure there are similar studies being done in the UK by reputable people.
I never suggested anyone eat a whole handful of willow bark either. LOL!
I heard that hypericum causes the contraceptive pill and insert not to be so effective, yet traditionally it has a reputation as an abortifacient if taken at strength with, no I'm not naming them on open forum, two other common herbs.
Yet trying to read up on the topic leads to conflicting reports on assorted research papers.
The only concensus apppears to be that it leads to a quicker breakdown of the contraceptives than is normal in the body.
The obvious question; does being on the pill cause the depression that leads some to take hypericum; doesn't seem to be considered
cheers,
Toddy
Yet trying to read up on the topic leads to conflicting reports on assorted research papers.
The only concensus apppears to be that it leads to a quicker breakdown of the contraceptives than is normal in the body.
The obvious question; does being on the pill cause the depression that leads some to take hypericum; doesn't seem to be considered
cheers,
Toddy
Paul B - It would be usual to make an infusion by simmering and steeping the herb/natural product, in this case willow bark or meadowSweet, in water. See a Herbal for quantities and times (or much better, consult a professional herbalist). The infusuon extracts, in this case, the Salicin, plus other soluble substances, which are (either singly or in total) , responsible for for its effectiveness.
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