Red and BBs home.....the adventure continues

Jul 12, 2012
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Liverpool
Not much at the moment - just some brace comb I've trimmed. I'm trying not to remove wax because every pound of wax uses up 5 pounds of honey! In a couple of years though I will need to replace lots of comb as it wears out....won't be more than a few ounces here and there till then tbh

That much honey is used to make wax? Blimey.

A few oz could do a special run though, let me know when you have some going for trade.
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,243
386
74
SE Wales
This has been a fascinating read, I've had a Rumsfeld moment! I didn't know how much I didn't know about these magic creatures, thanks for the post, atb mac
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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I didn't know how much I didn't know about these magic creatures, thanks for the post, atb mac

I'm still learning every day! You really can't think of bees as individual creatures - a hive is really one creature...the Queen is the ovaries, the workers the nervous system, the drones the male parts. In the Winter they lose weight, in the Summer they gain weight and are active. "Hive Mind" is a real thing - you can't think of bees as mammals - they are truly alien creatures - and all the more fascinating for that!
 
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British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Very true of course - I gues what I meant was that trying to understand them in terms of correlating their behaviour to mammals just doesn't work!
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Well now - not many photos here.

We have been having a right old time with our bees.

Good or bad? You decide.

Our Buckfast F1s showed early signs of swarming. Multiple queen cups were created. A queen cup is a "practice" queen cell. A queen may, or may not, lay eggs in it. If she does, the workers may tear it apart if they are content.


Queen cup top of frame by British Red, on Flickr

We weren't worried by the cups. But we moved to "Amber alert", checking at three day intervals for signs of hatched eggs (larvae surrounded by royal jelly) in the cups.

I have no photos of full queen cells - but I will take one and add it.

Today we had our mentor over - and the strain he developed had also started making queen cells.

We have used different techniques on both hives - although there is a common element. So I thought I would talk through both.

On the first hive what we did was this:

1) Prepare another complete brood box full of foundation
2) Capture the queen and put her safely in a queen cage (a matchbox will do)
3) Removed a frame of sealed nectar from the original brood box and swapped with a frame of foundation
4) Added the queen to the new brood box.
5) Removed the original brood box from the hive
6) Put the new brood box (with queen and stores) on the original site
7) The old brood box was moved to a new site 10' away.
8) The queen cells were examined and the best selected - the others were destroyed.
9) A floor, crown board and roof were added to create a new "colony".

This approach may allow us to increase the number of hives we have "for free" if the new queen hatches and the old queen does well. If only one thrives we can combine the hives.

What should happen is that all the older, flying bees will return to the original site. They will find the queen, limited food, and lots of frames of foundation. They should draw out the foundation to comb, and the old queen will lay eggs in it. Additional comb will be used for nectar and pollen.

On the new site the younger bees are still in place with lots of stores and the queen cell. They should gradually become foraging bees and stay in the new location feeding the queen cell as required. All the brood (larvae and eggs) are on the new site. As they hatch out and fly, they will accept the new site as "home". When the virgin queen pupates, she should fly and mate and return to the new site creating a viable colony.

We now have to wait two weeks to see if the new queen hatches and mates and begins to lay. In effect we have created an "artificial swarm". This may seem wonderful - but both hives are now smaller and will produce less honey this year unless we re-combine them

I will cover the other "swarm control" method we have used in the next post.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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The second swarm control technique we used is not one widely published but shown to me by our mentor. It requires a "swarm board". I will show this first.

I don't think you can buy a swarm board - so I made them.

The basics are a piece of 6mm exterior plywood the same dimensions as the hive.

On the bottom of the board is pinned and glued some 10mm batten to maintain "bee space" (room for bees to move)


Swarm Board Bottom by British Red, on Flickr

On the top of the board the same - with a gap to act as an entrance


Swarm Board Top by British Red, on Flickr

How this method works is as follows

1) Prepare another complete brood box full of foundation
2) Capture the queen and put her safely in a queen cage (a matchbox will do)
3) Remove a frame of sealed nectar from the original brood box and swapped with a frame of foundation
4) Add the queen to the new brood box.
5) Remove the original brood box from the hive
6) Put the new brood box (with queen and stores) on the original site
7) Put the swarm board on top of the new brood box - with the entrance at the rear
8) Put the old brood box on top of the swarm board
9) The queen cells should be examined and the best selected - the others should be destroyed.
10) The queen excluder, supers, crown board and roof are replaced.

This approach should allow us to see if the new queen hatches and the old queen does well. If, she does we can choose to separate the hive at this point or re-combine as needed.

What should happen is that all the older, flying bees will return to the new brood box with the front opening. They will find the queen, limited food, and lots of frames of foundation. They should draw out the foundation to comb, and the old queen will lay eggs in it. Additional comb will be used for nectar and pollen.

In the new, rear opening brood box, the younger bees are still in place with lots of stores and the queen cell. They should gradually become foraging bees and stay in the new location feeding the queen cell as required. All the brood (larvae and eggs) are in the new box. As they hatch out and fly, they will accept the new box as "home" and return via the rear entrance. When the virgin queen pupates, she should fly and mate and return to the new box creating a viable colony.

Here is the "rear opening" of the second brood box separated by the "swarm board"


Rear of Double Brood Hive by British Red, on Flickr


Rear of Hive With Swarm Board by British Red, on Flickr

This method has the advantage that, if the original queen is old, or unsatisfying to the workers, the colony is easy to re-unite. The old queen is found and killed. The swarm board is removed and replaced with a sheet of newspaper. The bees from both colonies will chew through the newspaper as their scents mingle. By the time they have done this it "feels like" one colony and they do not fight. Eventually one brood box can be removed. Thsi will give a strong, fully populated, colony.

This method has the advantage of preserving the honey harvest and a single strong colony

Here you can see two "small hives" caused by splitting a colony and one "large" hive with a swarm board


Extra Hives by British Red, on Flickr

Red
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,166
159
W. Yorkshire
Nice one mate.

So i'm assuming then that next year the split hive will have developed into 2 full hives? Thus giving you an increased honey yield from next year onwards. Seems a fair trade off for bit less this year. :)
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Nice one mate.

So i'm assuming then that next year the split hive will have developed into 2 full hives? Thus giving you an increased honey yield from next year onwards. Seems a fair trade off for bit less this year. :)

Just so if you want the extra hive. Or they can be reunited under the new queen for a stronger and more vigorous colony in the current year - all depends on what you are looking to achieve.

Tell you what though - theres a lot more to this beekeeping malarky than I thought there would be!
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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@Tony & Gray

Glad its interesting - I'm still learning all this stuff myself - so the pictures are mostly to help me retain and recall the information. Its a fascinating interest for sure - they are amazing creatures. I just hope I get more expert as time moves on :eek:
 

Gray

Full Member
Sep 18, 2008
2,091
10
Scouser living in Salford South UK
@Tony & Gray

Glad its interesting - I'm still learning all this stuff myself - so the pictures are mostly to help me retain and recall the information. Its a fascinating interest for sure - they are amazing creatures. I just hope I get more expert as time moves on :eek:
fantastic write up, really in depth, concise and very educational, certainly opened my eyes to something which i never dreamed would be so interesting. Thanks again
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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I thought it might be useful here to dwell a little on the nature of bees. Its very helpful to understand the types of bees and their lifecycle in order to manage them successfully.

There are basically three types of bees

Workers
Drones
Queens

Workers are infertile females and comprise most of the colony. They do all the food gathering, protection, hive maintenance and brood rearing. Most of the 70,000 bees in a colony are workers

Drones are males. They lack stings and also lack food gathering equipment. Their main role is to fertilise a new queen. A queen is only mated over a single period in her life over abut a week. She stores the sperm up and uses it thereafter and will not mate again.

The Queen is the only fertile female (once mated). There is only one queen per hive (with rare exceptions for a short period). Most queens only fly to mate - and again to swarm (split the colony) if a new queen is born. A queens role is to lay eggs. Lots of eggs - up to 1500 eggs per day.

This is what the eggs look like (little white threads).


Bee Eggs by British Red, on Flickr

If the queen releases sperm and fertilises the egg, it will become a female worker egg. If an infertile egg is released, it becomes a drone. If the workers want a new queen, they will raise a special cell called a queen cup (although they also do this for "practice" and tear them down sometimes). When an egg is laid in such a cup, it is fed differently (with a substance known as Royal Jelly), this egg becomes a new queen.

This is a "queen cup"


Queen cup top of frame by British Red, on Flickr

After an egg is three days old (for a worker egg) it hatches into a larvae - known as "unsealed brood". After six days the fed larva is sealed over. This is known as "sealed brood". 12 days later a young worker emerges.

You can see white, crescent shaped unsealed brood marked with a red arrow below. Sealed brood is marked with a blue arrow


Sealed and unsealed brood by British Red, on Flickr

Drone timings are slightly different but similar. Drone brood has a very raised appearance - shown in the red circle below


Drone Cell by British Red, on Flickr

If your queen has not mated properly, she cannot fertilise eggs so all you will see is drone brood - no workers means no foraging so this is a real problem that needs to be addressed.

So, we have seen drones and workers. Periodically the workers will raise queen cups and the queen will lay in them. If the workers are happy with the queen and the hive, these cups will be torn down. If the bees feel crowded, or unhappy with the queen, they will raise the eggs in the queen cups into queen cells.

This is a queen cup


Incipient queen cup side of frame by British Red, on Flickr

In the green circle you can see this cup being "drawn out". The red arrow points to a queen cell that has been drawn out and sealed


Developing emergency queen cells by British Red, on Flickr

Over time the bottom of the queen cell becomes papery and brown and, after about 8 or 9 days a new queen will hatch


Queen cell near hatching by British Red, on Flickr

If the old queen is present when a new queen is born, it is likely that the old queen will leave the hive with half or more of the old workers and find a new home - this is known as "swarming"


Swarm in air by British Red, on Flickr


Honey Bee Swarm by British Red, on Flickr

A beekeeper wants to avoid swarming - the loss of bees severely impacts honey production. The beekeeper will try to avoid this by artificially swarming (splitting) a hive where queen cells are found.

Sometimes an old queen will allow the new queen to take over - and even lay side by side with them - this is known as "supersedure".

Okay, so we understand a little about the bees lifecycle why does this matter?

Well, bees are going to want to swarm - it happens - as a beekeeper you cannot prevent it. It happens because your queen is getting old and not emitting enough "queen pheromone" to reassure her workers. It happens because the existing queen is poorly mated. It happens because the queen dies. If it happens that the works plan to create a new queen, queen cups will be created, laid in and turn to queen cells. If the queen dies, an existing worker egg will be fed differently and tuned into a queen cell (known as an "emergency" queen cell). If we just let that cell hatch, the emerging virgin queen will generally fight to the death with other virgin queens by stinging (queens generally only sting other queens). Unless supersedure is taking place, the old queen will generally swarm with up to 60% of the workers. The virgin queen will fly on a warm day and mate with up to 15 drones, repeating the process for several days. She will accumulate up to 6 million sperm and that is all she will use for the remainder of her life of up to 5 years If the weather is bad, the queen cannot fly and hence will become a sterile, drone laying queen. If the old queen has swarmed, and no eggs have been laid in the last 3 days to create an emergency queen, this can spell death for the colony. A clever beekeeper will introduce a frame of eggs from another colony in this circumstance - removing the drone laying queen. The workers will raise an emergency queen from the introduced eggs.

To prevent the loss of 60% of the bees, a beekeeper may well "artificially swarm" a colony raising queen cells. The old queen, some stores and workers are placed in a new hive. The old queen will lay eggs in the new hive and the workers lay in stores. In the old hive, the new queen will be born and mate. If eggs are found after a couple of weeks following the new queens birth, she is mated and fertile. The beekeeper now has a choice - keep two hives or re-unite the hives. To re-unite hives, the brood boxes are placed on top of one another separated by a sheet of newspaper. One queen is removed. The bees will chew their way through the paper and merge. If the bees were simply plonked together, they would fight treating it as an invasion. The paper allows their scents to mingle before they meet.

Normally in re-uniting, the older queen is removed (and destroyed), but this should not be done until it is certain that the new queen has successfully mated. If the new queen is a drone layer, the new queen can be removed and the old queen used, although it is probable that the hive will try to swarm again.

We used this procedure successfully this year to split our Buckfast colony. Unfortunately, the original queen is still not proving satisfactory to her workers and they have raised another queen cell, so rather than risk splitting the colony again, we are trying a different technique.

This technique involves using an "apidea" - a tiny beehive often used in mating queens.


Apidea by British Red, on Flickr

Once a queen cell had formed, we knew it had about 9 days to hatch. Approaching the hatching time, we captured the old queen, and gathered 2/3 of a cup full of workers and shut them up in the Apidea. The apidea contains some strips of foundation (wax) on three small frames and a lot of fondant (sugar based bee food). The apidea is kept in a cool shady building (a barn) and kept closed for three days. The bees have all the food they need - but no water, so a water mister is used twice a day to mist water through the grill. After three days, the apidea is placed outside and opened but with a queen excluder over the entrance. A queen excluder has precise slots that let a worker through but not a queen


Apidea by British Red, on Flickr

We took a look in the apidea today.


Open Apidea by British Red, on Flickr

You can seen the bees have begun creating comb on the miniature frames - and the queen is still there (circled)


Queen in Apidea by British Red, on Flickr

We can sustain the queen in this hive until we determine whether the new queen has hatched and mated. She should start laying eggs about 12 days after hatching. We need to let those eggs pupate and determine that we have worker brood, not just drone brood. If we have, then we have a vibrant new queen and the old queen can be disposed of.

If not, we can re-introduce the old queen having removed the drone layer.

If the new queen is laying well, one other thing we will do is mark her and clip the tip off one wing preventing her flying again. That way, if she attempts to swarm in the future, she will simply fall to the floor rather than fly off. The workers should then re-enter the hive rather than swarm.

Hopefully this (brief) introduction shows that beekeeping can be quite scientific, and the tendencies of the bees can be manipulated and used to replace queens carefully and even create new colonies. We are still very much novices, but discovering how to monitor and understand the lifecycle of bees is a fascinating journey.

Red
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
Radstock
Probably the best tread I've read on he forum so far really fascinating
We have introduced bees on one of the reserves I volunteer on and the people involved are fascinating they are working with the short haired bumble bee and until I met them I was oblivious to how complicated bees are and just the shear number of differant types

Fascinating read thank you
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,893
2,145
Mercia
Kind of you to say so :). This self sufficiency game is endlessly fascinating :) We are about to "close the circle" (get back to where we started from) in our home made sugar production which is satisfying! Quite how we will do with the heritage long stemmed wheat remains to be seen though - if this warmer weather holds we may be okay - fingers crossed! I can't get much advice on the varieties we are growing - they haven't grown in Britain in living memory, so its a bit of guesswork
 

Two Socks

Settler
Jan 27, 2011
750
0
Norway
Thanks Red, that was a good read. I`ve learned quite some things there. I admire all the things you achieve, and appreciate you sharing them here.
 

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