Question about this axe head/handle combo

[shaggystu]

.....3. Making one myself.

I like option 3, although I probably underestimate it As I said before though, it's pretty hard to find ash or hickory. However, spruce (picea abies) is very commonly available. I'm planning to make one out of that just to see if I'm able to. It's rather inexpensive so I might as well give it a shot. It isn't really suitable for a handle though, or is it?

Not difficult to make a handle at all, they can be tricky to fit though, but you already knew that didn't you

In my experience softwoods such as spruce are generally too light to give the required balance.

 

[Goliath]

Not difficult to make a handle at all, they can be tricky to fit though, but you already knew that didn't you

In my experience softwoods such as spruce are generally too light to give the required balance.

Thanks!

But... Victory! At least, I think so. I managed to find one online for a reasonable price. Head size is 70x26mm (the head is about 68x26mm, and everything I could find locally was 63-65x26mm), so fingers crossed it should work fine... Right?!

 

[Goliath]

Update!

I received the aforementioned handle. It's not perfect; it has some colour and the curve is off-angle. But the grain orientation is good, it's hickory, unlaquered and most importantly: it's the right size I decided it was fine for my first handle project.

I had to file/sand it down to fit. I think I have the proper fit and tightness (it slides down when I pound the butt of the handle on a wooden stool and locks it in nice and tight) but when I tried to insert the wedge, it would only go about 1/3th of the way it should. I did use some wood glue as a lubricant and I also sanded the wedge a bit since it was obviously too thick.

So my question is: what do I need to do to make the wedge fit?
The way I see it, there are three (/four) possible solutions.
1. File down some more wood on the handle.
2. Sand down some more wood on the wedge.
3. Use a less-fine saw to increase the width of the curve.
4. A combination of the above.

Could you experienced aXe-men () commend on this?

Here's a photo of the current fit.

 

[ozzy1977]

How far in to the head does the saw cut for the wedge go, it need to be about 2/3 down.

 

[mrcharly]

Mark on the handle the bottom and top of the axe head. Remove head.

Check that the saw cut goes at least 2/3rds of the way down between the two marks. Deepen the cut if needed.

Saw off the handle at the top mark. With few exceptions you don't have handle protruding from the top.

What sort of wedge are you using? I think a harder wood than the handle wood is good. The wedge should be a bit thicker than the saw cut, maybe double but not more unless the head is loose on the handle. The wedge should also be longer than the 2/3rds cut mentioned earlier.

Mark on wedge the depth of the cut. Hammer in the wedge until it really won't go in any further. Saw off protruding bit of wedge.

 

[British Red]

What mrcharly said - and above all make sure the head is the correct way up - they eye is wider at the top so this really matters!

 

[mr dazzler]

just fill the extra space with wood.

Oh no, Heracy!!!

If you look at most Japanese axes, the handle only fills two thirds or three quarters of the length of the eye. The final portion is filled with a wooden wedge that extends down along the edge side of the handle. It means that you don't need such a large piece of wood for the handle and the bit that always gets chewed up when going through/over logs is easily replaced should it break or come loose.

Its a perfectly good solution. I've seen it lots of times especially on adze handles where they pack up the end to make a tapered shape, also seen it on french agricultural hand tools. I did it myself once years ago on an axe, same scenario, the wood was too narrow. So I jointed one edge, jointed a second piece of ash, then glued them up, then shaped and formed the helve as normal, worked fine...

 

[Goliath]

How far in to the head does the saw cut for the wedge go, it need to be about 2/3 down.

Yep, it's pretty much exactly 2/3ths down. Forgot to mention that

Mark on the handle the bottom and top of the axe head. Remove head.

Check that the saw cut goes at least 2/3rds of the way down between the two marks. Deepen the cut if needed.

Saw off the handle at the top mark. With few exceptions you don't have handle protruding from the top.

What sort of wedge are you using? I think a harder wood than the handle wood is good. The wedge should be a bit thicker than the saw cut, maybe double but not more unless the head is loose on the handle. The wedge should also be longer than the 2/3rds cut mentioned earlier.

Mark on wedge the depth of the cut. Hammer in the wedge until it really won't go in any further. Saw off protruding bit of wedge.

Thanks! The wedge is about three times the width of the saw cut. Maybe even four times. So that's probably the reason it doesn't fit. But I'm afraid the wedge will be too flimsy if I file it down even further. The saw cut is about 1,5mm wide. The top of the wedge is about 7mm wide. So do I just file the wedge down some more? A 3mm wide wedge seems too tiny imo. What would you recommend? Maybe widen the cut to 2,5mm (if possible) and hammer a 5mm wedge down?

I have no idea on the sort of wood it is by the way. Nor did the guy I bought it from (purchased wedge seperately).

@British Red,
Cheers! Yes I marked the top of the head when I removed the old handle. I'm 100% sure it's the right way up

By the way, Dave Budd & shaggystu don't even saw a cut but 'split' the top with a chisel. How do you determine the width of the wedge when using that method? You would probably need to remove a bit more wood from the handle itself?

 

[shaggystu]

....By the way, Dave Budd & shaggystu don't even saw a cut but 'split' the top with a chisel. How do you determine the width of the wedge when using that method? You would probably need to remove a bit more wood from the handle itself?

Just had a quick glance at a few of my axes and I reckon the wedge is somewhere round about 1/5 - 1/3 of the internal diameter of the eye, and the wedges are driven in approximately 3/4 of the depth of the eye, but none of those things were ever measured. I make the handle as tight to the eye as I can and the wedge is sized up by eye and then hammered home, and I mean hammered. There are no "dry fittings" or practice runs, the wedge is lined up in the split and then beaten into submission, no glue or metal wedges are used, simply the wood being squeezed together inside the eye of the head keeps the whole thing together. In my opinion the wedge should require really quite a lot of effort to hammer home. If your wedge is already fitting 1/3 of the way in, and it's still loose enough to get back out again, then a good hammering and I reckon it'll probably go 3/4 of the way in and be pretty tight.

The whole idea of the wedge is that it doesn't "fit", it should be too big, it's the oversized wedge that adds the strength to the system. The axe helve desperately wants to split open because of the wedge being driven into it, the axe head prevents that split from happening, therefore the part of the helve that's stuck between the wedge and the cheeks of the axe head is under massive amounts of pressure, it's this pressure that keeps everything together.

Cheers,

Stuart.

 

[Goliath]

Just had a quick glance at a few of my axes and I reckon the wedge is somewhere round about 1/5 - 1/3 of the internal diameter of the eye, and the wedges are driven in approximately 3/4 of the depth of the eye, but none of those things were ever measured. I make the handle as tight to the eye as I can and the wedge is sized up by eye and then hammered home, and I mean hammered. There are no "dry fittings" or practice runs, the wedge is lined up in the split and then beaten into submission, no glue or metal wedges are used, simply the wood being squeezed together inside the eye of the head keeps the whole thing together. In my opinion the wedge should require really quite a lot of effort to hammer home. If your wedge is already fitting 1/3 of the way in, and it's still loose enough to get back out again, then a good hammering and I reckon it'll probably go 3/4 of the way in and be pretty tight.

The whole idea of the wedge is that it doesn't "fit", it should be too big, it's the oversized wedge that adds the strength to the system. The axe helve desperately wants to split open because of the wedge being driven into it, the axe head prevents that split from happening, therefore the part of the helve that's stuck between the wedge and the cheeks of the axe head is under massive amounts of pressure, it's this pressure that keeps everything together.

Cheers,

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart! That's a thorough explanation. It does raise one more question: are there any dangers if the wedge is less than 2/3ths of the way into the eye?
One small correction by the way. I wrote the wedge fits 1/3 of the way, but that's including the (about 1-1,5cm) top of the handle sticking out of the eye. So when I insert the wedge, it barely enters the eye of the axe. That's pretty much the only reason I was able to get it out. I was planning to saw off the top with the fitted wedge, but maybe it's more wise to saw it off beforehand.

 

[shaggystu]

Thanks Stuart! That's a thorough explanation. It does raise one more question: are there any dangers if the wedge is less than 2/3ths of the way into the eye?
One small correction by the way. I wrote the wedge fits 1/3 of the way, but that's including the (about 1-1,5cm) top of the handle sticking out of the eye. So when I insert the wedge, it barely enters the eye of the axe. That's pretty much the only reason I was able to get it out. I was planning to saw off the top with the fitted wedge, but maybe it's more wise to saw it off beforehand.

I personally wouldn't be too happy with a wedge that went any less than 2/3 of the way into the eye, but if it felt good and solid I'd probably live with it for a while.

From the sound of it the wedge is ready to be driven home, everything sounds like it fits pretty well, but it's hard to be sure without having the thing in my hand.

Sawing the top of the last job after everything's been fitted, that's how it all ends up looking nice and neat.

Cheers,

Stuart.

 

[mrcharly]

If you don't have a saw, how are you planning on sawing off the protruding part of the handle?

It could be whittled off with a knife I guess.

 

[Goliath]

I personally wouldn't be too happy with a wedge that went any less than 2/3 of the way into the eye, but if it felt good and solid I'd probably live with it for a while.

From the sound of it the wedge is ready to be driven home, everything sounds like it fits pretty well, but it's hard to be sure without having the thing in my hand.

Sawing the top of the last job after everything's been fitted, that's how it all ends up looking nice and neat.

Cheers,

Stuart.

Thanks again Stuart, and sorry for the late reply. Today I finally had the chance to work on this little project again (damn holidays ). But I'm not really satisfied with the results so far.
I sanded off a little more of the handle (very little, only 1mm or so), to make more room for the wedge. So I added a little wood glue (I know the usefulness of this is debatable, but anyway) and hammered the wedge home. I marked the point on the wedge to where it should end up if I could hammer it 2/3th of the way down.

Well, to make a long story short, after trying and trying, with different hammers and techniques, I'm unable to insert the wedge little over 1/3th of the way down into the eye. I really thought there was enough room, and I really did try.

It feels solid though, (and I'll likely saw the top off, sand it down a little and add a metal wedge so the wooden wedge doesn't work itself upwards) but I really don't want to end up with a dangerous tool. I can probably work the wedge out with a chisel, without damaging the handle, but I'm not sure if that's the way to go. I could also leave the top of the handle sticking out of the eye 1,5cm or so, so the wedge is actually longer.

What would be the dangers if I were to use the axe like this? It's hard to imagine the head flying off mid-swing, but still...

Any advice and axe-wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

Regarding dimensions: the head is about 79mm tall and the wedge is 26mm inserted into the head (not measuring the part that's sticking out the top, obviously).

Here are some photos (the wedge looks thinner on the photo than it actually is, by the way).

 

[mrcharly]

Your wedge is far too thick. Should be a third of that thickness.

I don't think it is sensible to leave any part of the handle protruding from the top of the head. There will be many times when splitting logs that a protruding part with strike the log. Not safe and the handle will rapidly get damaged.

 

[ammo]

I've enjoyed this thread. Do keep us updated please.

 

[shaggystu]

Your wedge is far too thick. Should be a third of that thickness.....

I'd agree with that.

I think that at this stage I would likely saw the wedge off flush with the top of the protruding handle and have a bit of a (careful) play with the tool. Have a good look at the axe before use, (and frequently during the first few sessions of use too) visually check to see if anything has come loose (that's why I suggest sawing the wedge off flush, if everything lines up perfectly it's really easy to see if it moves at all), check that the wedge hasn't moved, or that any gaps have opened up anywhere, maybe tap the poll of the axe onto a block to see if there's any movement between the head and the handle, possibly even set the head firmly into a log to see if you can move the handle independently of the head. If you're happy that nothing's moved, and that the head is still tightly fitted then all is good.

If at any point anything come loose, then you should be able to get the wedge out easily enough and fit a slightly better one.

Trickier than you expected isn't it

 

[Goliath]

I'm terribly sorry for my late reply. Life intervened

I'm planning to finish (read: saw the handle flush, sharpen the axe and oil the handle) this weekend or maybe today. I'll promise to keep you guys posted. Few things are more annoying than unfinished threads on forums

@mrcharly & shaggystu,
Thanks for your replies. I was afraid the wedge was too thick. Although I already sanded of quite a bit of extra wood, and this was the thinnest wedge available. And yes, it was trickier than expected

Anyway, you can expect an update soon. Hopefully

Edit: My God, I use a lot of winking emoticons. Meh.

 

[Goliath]

Update!

So I sharpened the axe (which was incredibly dull) sawed off a part of the protruding handle, and left about 5mm sticking out. I then applied two thin coats of linseed oil and gave it a whirl. I found it a bit scary at first, but it all seems to hold up really well. I split about 20 (20-25cm long, 8-15cm diameter) logs of horrible wood (semi-wet conifer with lots of resin and knots) with relative ease. And it isn't even a splitting axe.

I also tried some of shaggystu's tips, and there is only a little play on the bottom of the head when I smash the axe in a block and move the handle up and down. I'll try to make a video of that tomorrow. I'll upload some pics as well.

I intentionally left the small metal wedge out (I know it is a much debated topic on whether to use these), to see if the wooden wedge would come loose easily or not. So far, it's still flush with the handle.

 

[Goliath]

Photos!

Comments are welcome!