Printing camo patterns onto fabric?

[RAPPLEBY2000]

:Wow: you lucky

I'm getting a bit confused now as every photo I've seen of the camo seems slightly different, I almost want a Dulux paint chart to figure out the colours and shades. is that one very faded, or is the camo meant to be that light?

Just thought have you tried removing the marker pen with Meths, it sometimes works for me! saying that it may damage the colours further

 

[Risclean]

If you get fibre reactive dyes (which bond with the fabric) they would be far superior to paint. They wouldn't wear off or affect the feel of the fabric. You can get thickeners to mix with the dye which allow you to paint the dye on in your desired pattern. Hopefully the best of both worlds, although I havent tried it myself.

Dylon used to make fibre reactive dyes but they seem to have discontinued them. This seems like a good place to try -

http://www.fibrecrafts.com/

I'm sort of planning to try something like this to make a parka modeled on the flacktarn parka with a grassland camo. I was thinking three colours would do - dye the whole garment beige then light green and mid brown to make the pattern

 

[andybysea]

Is that defo genuine ww2 windproof, i only ask because cwcw who produce the very good silvermans repros put exactly the same ww2 label in there older repro's, eg ''the fifty shilling tailors 1944'' i used to have one, and the buttons on it are green, most ww2 buttons were chocolate brown phenolic plastic? anyway, Rappleby dont worry to much about seeing various colour shades that happened alot during ww2 differant manufactures using slightly differant dyes etc, theres a never ending debate amoungst reenactors about the various shades of denisons,windproofs, battlesdress etc industry wasnt as advanced in them days and the wd-now mod were more concerned about getting kit to the troops rather than shade variance. finaly i agree with risclean dye would be better than paint for soft windproof cotton.

Rappleby the three colours id go for to try and mimick the ww2 windproof(used until 1983 think there last use was by sbs in falklands campaign) would be a heather (flower) pink, a chocolate brown,and a grass or jungle green.go to dylon or do a search and have a look at there colour chart to see a near match for those shades would be my advice.

 

[beach bum]

The first of these smocks I had, sold on Ebay for £142 the guy who bought it had previously paid over £300 for a "Fallschirmsjaeger" camo smock, so he was well into this gear.

Bearing this in mind I could hardly believe my luck when I found another at the boot sale, however my joy was shortlived as this most recent one is in poor condition with small tears and iron stains as well as the marker pen vandalism and I am reluctant to put it on Ebay in case the bidding gets out of hand.

However for your futher edification I'll put some pics up , the pattern on this one seems to have very much less of the pinkish /beige and the original buttons are are indeed green as were the buttons on the other.

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I am however confounded by the label sewn inside it appears to me to be dated "1943"????

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There a War Dept., ink stamp inside as well.

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Here on the back perhaps a better view of the cammo pattern.

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I really must get myself motivated and put it up on the bay see what happens, if'n it doesnt make as much as the first it's not as if it owes me much, I gave a quid for it.

Sorry for the diatribe and I hope it is of interest to someone.


regards


beach bum

 

[andybysea]

I personnely think your second one is the original and your first not 100% certain of although it does bare a stiking resemblance to a cwcw repro they had to change the label in them because of complaints that they could be passed on as originals as for the issue of them they were issued from 43(or at least produced form then), but didnt really see much service till the winter of 44/45 mostly early 45,and were a infantry cold weather layering system to go over the battledress not a SAS issue that they are sometimes advertised as, most SAS guys during the war wore standard BD's in europe,with a Denison smock over them.
although they could both be genuine and im no expert, i have handled alot of repro's and originals (did WW2 Brit reenactment for 5yrs and also collected alot of ww2 kit) as for the guy who paid 300 quid on ebay for a jump smock some repro fallshy smocks (good ones) go for that amount if it was original he's got a very good deal,as for windproofs, repros go for 50 to 75
and originals 100 onwards ive seen a jacket and trouser set for sale at 800 im not having a go at you just that first label struck me as not 100% plus your other is in worse condition but still bares the original ink stamps,which could of course be faked but thats a whole new debate,just my comments. just out of curiosity where are the labels in each one situated?

 

[beach bum]

I know not whether either of these are repros, but I very much doubt it, in either case the material is "ripe" and fragile with it, I don't remember where the label sat on the first smock but on this one here it's behind the lefthand pocket with the ink stamp just above, this section is doubled layered to the waist.

I should have thought had these been repros the quality of the workmanship would have been better and material too.

regards

beach bum

 

[andybysea]

I know not for sure either! just the label in the first is defo same as used in cwcw repro's and without comparisons seeing flesh etc will leave it at that,as for material, the original ones when new had very good material alot tougher than the repros coming from china/pakistan/via the us, i was speaking to a trader/reenactor(ex para) at a large reenactor event a couple of years ago who'd used both and had a original on his stand, he told me his repro trousers had basically fallen to bits when being used in the field where as his originals where still going strong, im not sure about the cammo smock but the original desert windproofs where made from egyptian cotton,a very tight weeve good quailty cloth.have you tried removing the ink on the second? maybe worth taking it to a professional, even if you spend a few more quid i think you'd easy make that back/plus alot more on ebay or try some of the ww2 reenactors forums.

cheers andy.

 

[Snufkin]

If they are still there, Anglian Fashion Fabrics on Magdelan St might be a good source for dyes or info. The staff in there were very knowledgeable when I was last in (alot of years ago).

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Thanks again for the ideas and pictures, i must have about 20 pictures "borrowed" from the net now.

CHEERS Snufkin, i went in there yesterday, and they were helpfull,
they have a few dyes/fabric paints some of which are useful.

they also sell a few different types of cotton canvas type material at around £6 per meter, which i guess is ok. also loads of buttons.

I think i shall be seeing more of them!

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

well I haven't started it yet or bought anything, I have done a little more research and found that all in the project will cost around £50. you can get a replica for £70.

also i found that the 1944 windproofs were made in 3 fabrics:
cotton canvas,
cotton Gaberdine,
and cotton drill.

for some reason do to the cut of the smock at the rear, the wearers often got cold backs.

and apparently the draw cords that looked a bit like pajama cords were actually wick material intended for oil lamps.

 

[andybysea]

As far as i know the desert ones where egyptian cotton, the mountain ones where the same material used to make denim battle dress and denim jump oversmocks,the camo ones where windproof gaberdine material,and the snow ones where a drill type material.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

As far as i know the desert ones where egyptian cotton, the mountain ones where the same material used to make denim battle dress and denim jump oversmocks,the camo ones where windproof gaberdine material,and the snow ones where a drill type material.

drill = Denim I think

egyptian cotton = really finely woven but light.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Just to mix things up a bit as pink seems to be the colour of choice here!

Cheers

 

[andybysea]

Drill is not quite the same as the wartime denim,eg denison smocks where drill but they where not quite the same material as the wartme denim battledress,which had a slighty smooter outerside.
eygptian cotton is very like modern day ventile, yep tight weeve lightweight etc. klenchblaize the two above SS smocks in plaintree camo patterns where either made in drill, hbt or cotton duck, i used to have two really good copies, a oakleaf and a blurred edge pattern and the duck material does shed water quite well and the cammo patterns work well but got rid of due to the name of the group associated with them.

 

[Klenchblaize]

A valid point but I can't help liking the "plane tree" camo pattern as simply aesthetically pleasing.

Cheers

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I agree the WW2 camo designs are still being copied today! I love the German variation alot of their jackets were also reversible (I can't deny they had some clever chaps working for them).

I read a German camo book and they really went to town with designs and aparently some camos tests even had whacky colours like purple.