Preparing for troubled times ahead - Advice on what is needed.....

[Woody girl]

I keep hearing bad things about air source heat pumps. Noise being the biggest issue and that older houses are not set up to work with the low temperature but continuous warm.

I noticed mine at first, but I don't now. I'm very sensitive to loud noise, or any noise levels above quiet. A good few of my neighbours have them too. To be honest, the roaring sound from my neighbour behind me 's oil heating system is far more noticeable, and he doesn't notice that. To me it's noisy and sounds like a roar.
My system is little more than a hum but timed, in the summer for its weekly heat ( to prevent legionnaires) for after midnight, so I'm usualy asleep.
In the winter, as I'm in a bungalow, the most annoying thing is the blasts of cold air that come from it straight down my drive.. Where its sited..ie not on a bedroom wall, can make a difference to the noise levels too. Realy, it's not that bad at all, or I would be moaning like mad!!!!!
I could not tell you when I last noticed it functioning by noise alone.

 

[TeeDee]

I keep hearing bad things about air source heat pumps. Noise being the biggest issue and that older houses are not set up to work with the low temperature but continuous warm.

Noise on the cheaper units can be a definite issue - but depends on where you place it and you have to be realistic about the fact it is a piece of machinery.

Agree completely that older houses are not ideal for ASHP integration - which is why often its better to Insulate 1st and then see where you are.

The main benefit of ASHP is when its combined with Underfloor heating systems - either in a new build or a retro fit - reason being the ASHP can provide the required heat for the room(s) through the floor at LOWER temperatures because your floor is now the emitter and not the small radiator on one side of the room trying to heat the whole air space.

 

[knowledge=gain]

@TeeDee

serious questions here in all fairness

how effective are these underfloor heating systems where

carpet with underlay be placed on top

or

wooden flooring with rugs be placed on top

or

is there specialist flooring for such systems...??

as i am sure most do no want bare floors in their homes

 

[Broch]

This use of technology is interesting; I'm not sure if it's good or bad. In some ways, being able to reach a very high proportion of the public instantly is great (they can be responsible for alerting people who do not have the technology), but, I can't help thinking, it could create panic and mass action that may not be the best outcome

Emergency alert system to launch in October across Great Britain

The Home Office says the technology can warn 85% of the population of life-threatening events.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TLM]

Air to air heat pumps work quite well here, they should work even better in the UK as temp difference is smaller. We have quite a few two stage pumps that work down to outside temp -35C.

Floor heating is nice but ... it definitely works best with hard floors. It works with wood flooring but the amount of heat that can be transferred to air is limited because of the insulating effect of wood.

The noise from the indoor unit is generally quite low. The outdoor unit can be a problem depending how it is supported, we did some testing and found that steel springs isolated the vibration much better than the rubber fasteners they offer you first. No practical price difference there.

 

[swyn]

@TeeDee

serious questions here in all fairness

how effective are these underfloor heating systems where

carpet with underlay be placed on top

or

wooden flooring with rugs be placed on top

or

is there specialist flooring for such systems...??

as i am sure most do no want bare floors in their homes

Stone or engineered wood seems to be popular. The odd kilim will look good too.
S

 

[knowledge=gain]

This use of technology is interesting; I'm not sure if it's good or bad. In some ways, being able to reach a very high proportion of the public instantly is great (they can be responsible for alerting people who do not have the technology), but, I can't help thinking, it could create panic and mass action that may not be the best outcome

Emergency alert system to launch in October across Great Britain

The Home Office says the technology can warn 85% of the population of life-threatening events.

www.bbc.co.uk

thank you for sharing

this also suggests that they are preparing for grid down scenarios or as some would say planned power-outages

 

[swyn]

I was looking at the shed that is rather a hospital job and has input over fifteen years now.
My wife and I were discussing rainwater storage as the old Victorian system has got too old.
How to get the water saved up to a tank that will then work by gravity is my current dilemma.
S

 

[C_Claycomb]

I should mention that the part of the house that would be getting knocked down contains my gas boiler. It was new maybe seven years ago. Seemed like it might be the time to change, if I go ahead with the build, and to make choices to integrate new tech and energy savers into the structure, not just put the old boiler back as default.

 

[knowledge=gain]

I should mention that the part of the house that would be getting knocked down contains my gas boiler. It was new maybe seven years ago. Seemed like it might be the time to change, if I go ahead with the build, and to make choices to integrate new tech and energy savers into the structure, not just put the old boiler back as default.

i would wait a little longer and see what happen in this country and the world before taking on such a huge task as better options for integration may be on the horizon

 

[swyn]

I should mention that the part of the house that would be getting knocked down contains my gas boiler. It was new maybe seven years ago. Seemed like it might be the time to change, if I go ahead with the build, and to make choices to integrate new tech and energy savers into the structure, not just put the old boiler back as default.

Insulation is the key. If your pp is to current regs then y’all be ok.
Size-wise an ashp or electric is then your dilemma. Don’t dismiss both! My father ran ashp’s alongside oil in the early 70’s with very early British made pumps and they worked fine. Think fridge. Everyone has one and they rarely go wrong.
Not forgetting heating your hot/shower water. Me, I’m solar with an immersion.
Time clocks are important but a minor outlay and an airing cupboard and a chimney for a small wood-burner for the really cold times in Jan & Feb.
No gas boiler. The sooner and quicker you can ditch this the better!
S

 

[TeeDee]

@TeeDee

serious questions here in all fairness

how effective are these underfloor heating systems where

carpet with underlay be placed on top

or

wooden flooring with rugs be placed on top

or

is there specialist flooring for such systems...??

as i am sure most do no want bare floors in their homes

So have to acknowledge a few things 1st

Different rooms tend to have a desired temperature range - most people ( always weird outliers ) dont like a super hot Bedroom - whilst a Bathroom ( where you tend to get naked ) needs to be warm but equally suffers that you typically cannot heat the whole floor ( not often we heat under baths )

Different rooms have differing floor coverings - You don't tend to find Carpet in Kitchen or Bathrooms ( anymore) - so you will have a range of materials from carpet , engineered wood/laminate , stone , polished concrete , slate, parquet , Marble etc etc

Due to Two main reasons we can heat materials up to a desired level - the first is safety - we don't want to increase the water velocity and temperature delta to super heat a stone floor where its uncomfortable to walk up.

Second reason is that certain materials - such as TOGs on Carpets and Engineered Woods/laminate have manufacturers suggested heat tolerances - we could in theory heat a piece engineered wood upto the point where it delaminates - causing a warranty claim between customer and flooring company.


ALOT depends upon what sort of floor you currently have , if you are planning major renovations or a more minor modest refurb.

Difficult for me to answer more but our options are pretty varied.

 

[TeeDee]

Insulation is the key. If your pp is to current regs then y’all be ok.
Size-wise an ashp or electric is then your dilemma. Don’t dismiss both! My father ran ashp’s alongside oil in the early 70’s with very early British made pumps and they worked fine. Think fridge. Everyone has one and they rarely go wrong.
Not forgetting heating your hot/shower water. Me, I’m solar with an immersion.
Time clocks are important but a minor outlay and an airing cupboard and a chimney for a small wood-burner for the really cold times in Jan & Feb.
No gas boiler. The sooner and quicker you can ditch this the better!
S

Solar Thermal is great design integration in my mind - although I'm truly dumb founded that we don't push it more with new builds.

 

[knowledge=gain]

So have to acknowledge a few things 1st

Different rooms tend to have a desired temperature range - most people ( always weird outliers ) dont like a super hot Bedroom - whilst a Bathroom ( where you tend to get naked ) needs to be warm but equally suffers that you typically cannot heat the whole floor ( not often we heat under baths )

Different rooms have differing floor coverings - You don't tend to find Carpet in Kitchen or Bathrooms ( anymore) - so you will have a range of materials from carpet , engineered wood/laminate , stone , polished concrete , slate, parquet , Marble etc etc

Due to Two main reasons we can heat materials up to a desired level - the first is safety - we don't want to increase the water velocity and temperature delta to super heat a stone floor where its uncomfortable to walk up.

Second reason is that certain materials - such as TOGs on Carpets and Engineered Woods/laminate have manufacturers suggested heat tolerances - we could in theory heat a piece engineered wood upto the point where it delaminates - causing a warranty claim between customer and flooring company.


ALOT depends upon what sort of floor you currently have , if you are planning major renovations or a more minor modest refurb.

Difficult for me to answer more but our options are pretty varied.

interesting knowledge and a lot to take in

flooring is solid concrete throughout and was laid some sixty [60] or so years ago, if that helps

preferred rooms would be bedroom and living and bathroom with no need in the kitchen

preferred flooring

bathroom lino
both bedroom and living rooms carpet with underlay yet can adapt to wooden with rugs if necessary for underfloor heating [hence the original query]

as minimal disruption to building and structure as is possible thus as an upgrade rather than a renovation so to speak

 

[TeeDee]

interesting knowledge and a lot to take in

flooring is solid concrete throughout and was laid some sixty [60] or so years ago, if that helps

preferred rooms would be bedroom and living and bathroom with no need in the kitchen

preferred flooring

bathroom lino
both bedroom and living rooms carpet with underlay yet can adapt to wooden with rugs if necessary for underfloor heating [hence the original query]

as minimal disruption to building and structure as is possible thus as an upgrade rather than a renovation so to speak

In which case the floor is likely due to its age to not have any type of insulation in it. Depending on budget there are definite options available to you but you'd need a more typical project survey - in which case you'd need to go online and submit a Design Form at which point an account manager would contact you to provide options and an idea of pricing. You'd need to submit a plan of some sort with accurate measurements. Hand drawn by yourself is acceptable as long as its accurate. If you want the company name I can ping it to you if you want to direct message me.

 

[bearbait]

This use of technology is interesting; I'm not sure if it's good or bad. In some ways, being able to reach a very high proportion of the public instantly is great (they can be responsible for alerting people who do not have the technology), but, I can't help thinking, it could create panic and mass action that may not be the best outcome

Emergency alert system to launch in October across Great Britain

The Home Office says the technology can warn 85% of the population of life-threatening events.

www.bbc.co.uk

That system is almost bound to be a fine target for prankster hackers!

 

[Wildgoose]

That is always a risk, saw loads of that during Covid.

My bank seems to have changed tack in that regard, rather than send a link they simple tell you to check your online account or contact your branch, no phone numbers etc given.

 

[swyn]

interesting knowledge and a lot to take in

flooring is solid concrete throughout and was laid some sixty [60] or so years ago, if that helps

preferred rooms would be bedroom and living and bathroom with no need in the kitchen

preferred flooring

bathroom lino
both bedroom and living rooms carpet with underlay yet can adapt to wooden with rugs if necessary for underfloor heating [hence the original query]

as minimal disruption to building and structure as is possible thus as an upgrade rather than a renovation so to speak

My ‘one room’ concept is just that.
Do one room properly.
In real terms this is quite easily done. Just the mess and effort to make a start weighs heavy on most peoples minds.
Is a one room mess minimal disruption. That can be discussed at length before, during and after

 

[TLM]

In which case the floor is likely due to its age to not have any type of insulation in it.

I am having trouble adjusting to some things, like here one just never ever builds a floor in living space without insulation of some kind.

Floor heating here is common in shower spaces etc. but while it is built sometimes on all flooring it is not really all that popular. Which does not mean more than it is not necessarily a good solution here. UK requires so much less heating (if the building is insulated to any std) that it might make much more sense there. I am not really even discussing what is common usage but what makes sense engineering wise.

Not having any experience on air to air heat pumps in the UK I still wonder why not, it might require some channeling but not all that much with proper placing of indoor units.

 

[TeeDee]

I am having trouble adjusting to some things, like here one just never ever builds a floor in living space without insulation of some kind.

The UK isn't Finland.


Alot more makes sense once you get your head around that.


NEW BUILD properties built in align with building regs WILL have Insulation as a required element.

But the UK also has a lot of far older mixed housing stock that doesn't. With a mixture of floor type constructions from Solid slab to suspended timber floor.