Preparing for troubled times ahead - Advice on what is needed.....

[Woody girl]

wow very very true indeed

i hear you sister of our earth

very very wise words

i too will never have enough knowledge to fill our forbears shoes

i often bring home things discarded on the kerb for landfill and make a new purpose for them

i need to look further into nettle-cordage, i have heard of yet not studied as yet, thank you for the reminder

loneliness is in the mindset and when one [1] is at one [1] with nature the loneliness subsides

just go into the woods and listen to the sounds of nature and you will not feel lonely, in fact you will start to feel at peace within yourself

standing in the woods or sitting in the woods on a fallen tree or a rock in bare feet will help ground you and help you find your inner-self

it is surprising how calm it makes you feel plus it is a great stress reliever

i speak from personal experience with a very stressful life that was chaotic to say the least to now a calm and peaceful life handling similar chaotic stressful situations with calmness and ease with no medication of any kind

remember the human body as a natural healing ability

Thank you, I don't think I'm a wise woman yet, but I'm working on it!
I too have seen stressful times that almost broke me, my present life, though not without hiccups is much more relaxing and I never thought it was possible, but it is easier if it's just yourself. Family makes it a bit more of a problem and can cause rifts, so it's best to all be on board.
Not easy ! But not impossible if there is enough conviction, thought, and honest discussion on what can be comprised on.
My next project is an off grid washing machine...I say machine... it does use woman power to a degree, and though easy on a warm summers day, may be less so in the winter.
Two nesting buckets with lids.
One rubber toilet plunger with a long handle.
A drill...or in my case a brace and bit, as yet unsullied by my fair hands.
Drill holes at fairly equal distance(every couple of inches) all up and down and around the bucket, and in the bottom. A giant colander is the look we want. Not too many holes as you want to keep the integrity of the bucket. Do the same with the rubber bit of the loo plunger.
Nest the holey bucket inside the sound one, make a hole in the lid that will accommodate the handle of the plunger and let it move freely up and down.
Fill with warm water, and suds., add clothes, put plunger lid on, and have fun working those biceps. !
When done, pull out the holey bucket and clothes and allow to drain, using the plunger to encourage the process.
Fill bucket with rinsing water, agitate and drain as before.
Hang clothes on an outdoor line, untill dry.
Winter, they will be wrung as much as possible and hung over the bath untill they stop dripping when sqeezed, and finished off in front of the woodburner on an airer untill dry.
It will probably rain as soon as its made, so solar heating the water in my shower bags will be a problem but for sunny days in the summer, will save a lot of electric. Might not be an option in the winter, but I'll give it a try on my hot water saturdays....yes, i only heat water one day a week summer and winter. And have done so for twenty years.
Primitive yes, but a better option than dirty clothes.

 

[knowledge=gain]

Thank you, I don't think I'm a wise woman yet, but I'm working on it!
I too have seen stressful times that almost broke me, my present life, though not without hiccups is much more relaxing and I never thought it was possible, but it is easier if it's just yourself. Family makes it a bit more of a problem and can cause rifts, so it's best to all be on board.
Not easy ! But not impossible if there is enough conviction, thought, and honest discussion on what can be comprised on.
My next project is an off grid washing machine...I say machine... it does use woman power to a degree, and though easy on a warm summers day, may be less so in the winter.
Two nesting buckets with lids.
One rubber toilet plunger with a long handle.
A drill...or in my case a brace and bit, as yet unsullied by my fair hands.
Drill holes at fairly equal distance(every couple of inches) all up and down and around the bucket, and in the bottom. A giant colander is the look we want. Not too many holes as you want to keep the integrity of the bucket. Do the same with the rubber bit of the loo plunger.
Nest the holey bucket inside the sound one, make a hole in the lid that will accommodate the handle of the plunger and let it move freely up and down.
Fill with warm water, and suds., add clothes, put plunger lid on, and have fun working those biceps. !
When done, pull out the holey bucket and clothes and allow to drain, using the plunger to encourage the process.
Fill bucket with rinsing water, agitate and drain as before.
Hang clothes on an outdoor line, untill dry.
Winter, they will be wrung as much as possible and hung over the bath untill they stop dripping when sqeezed, and finished off in front of the woodburner on an airer untill dry.
It will probably rain as soon as its made, so solar heating the water in my shower bags will be a problem but for sunny days in the summer, will save a lot of electric. Might not be an option in the winter, but I'll give it a try on my hot water saturdays....yes, i only heat water one day a week summer and winter. And have done so for twenty years.
Primitive yes, but a better option than dirty clothes.

you are welcome

you seem wiser than you give yourself credit for tbh plus you are not only willing to learn you are also willing to get your hands dirty and muck in with what needs doing

i am glad to hear you have come thru stressful times and are better for it, i comprehend it is not easy by any stretch of the imagination and true being on ones own is more beneficial that we are led to believe

true we do have to compromise a lot more than being stuck in the rat race, and prioritise the chores and tasks at hand, where possible i leave indoor tasks for colder and wet weather and outdoor tasks for warmer and drier weather yet as you know that it not always possible as priorities change all the time

i like your hand-washing-machine idea and kind of reminds me of how our forbears might of managed before machines were invented

i have seen some portable counter-top hand-crank washers which look neat

here is Ariel from Fy Nyth using one of these counter-top hand crank washers

reminds me when we were kids we use to top and tail wash thru the week and bath on sundays in the seventies [70]'s when things were tough

makes me think that being too hygienically clean has a detriment on the human body with all the chemicalised soaps and-such

 

[knowledge=gain]

Errrr.... I disagree with the overall anti-tech vibe and the anti climate change...and I'm out...

no one here is coming across as "anti-tech" or anti-climate change"

we are all about the right progress and right tech

as previously stated i am all for tech that saves lives if and only if there be a bona-fide and genuine need for such

yet tech that takes folks jobs away like self-service check-outs to name but one [1] i could never agree with

as for the climate change, do not get me started on that one [1] with their lies and deceit

for one [1] everyday example and have been referred to in this thread

they portray there is not enough sustainable electricity do the not...??

yet they still mass produce electric products, do they not...??

they also invent new electric products do they not...??

they place electric charging stations for electric vehicles do they not...??

they are going all out digital for landlines with forcing [voip] contracts are they not...??

they are aiming to close down the gas supplies are they not...??

thereby if the power goes down for any reason for any length of time how will most folk cope and manage as they are dependent on electricity...??

this is why threads like this exist to help folk to become prepared or at least gain knowledge for survival

i for one [1] have measures in place not perfect measures and each measure are not to be solely reliant on as one [1] must have backups for backups

for example

i have multiple fuel stoves as they function different for different times of the year

take ye standard gas cylinder or canister which do not function well or at all in colder temperatures, one [1] would need a backup with fuel that world in those temperatures like a gassifier stove for outside and a alcohol-stove for indoors

i know it is hard for some folk to comprehend yet if we do this for camping then we can do this for when times get hard

there are some great suggestions with viable solutions all over these forums for if-when times get hard

while some folk are lucky to have access to some land to practise bushcraft many like i do not, that said i am working on it as one [1] of my goals

many do not have the luxury to have a garden to grow food, that said there are ways around this like square foot gardening or balcony growing with stack-able planters or commandeering the use of a friends or neighbours garden whereby they are not using it

or if enough interest with many folk one [1] can go to their council or local land-owner and see about securing some land for allotment use, the allotment society can help to secure land etcetera some land registry work may be needed and it may take a fair amount of time yet all worth it

many can only dream whilst watching youtube videos or reading threads on forums blogs and-such whereby some have the luxury of land even if it be a small-garden or a communal-garden whereby some do not even have so much as a balcony to use

if we look at it all in a positive tone we can no doubt find solutions that will help folk be self sustainable even if on a smaller scale than we would ideally like

for me the space gained when power-tools and their accessories are sold will make room for more food and survival items storage as hand-tools take up a lot less room than their power-tool brethren

i have most of what i need right now just a few bits n bobs here and there needed that said needed and not as a want

for many of us who camp etcetera our camping gear and experiences will help for sure during the hard times even if one [1] have to bug-out or evacuate for a period of time

thereby to get by for when times get hard the ten [10] C's of survival as mentioned by Dave Canterbury

1. Cutting Tool
2. Combustion Device
3. Cordage
4. Cover Element
5. Container
6. Candling Device
7. Cargo Tape
8. Compass
9. Cotton Material
10. Canvas Needle
11. Communications
    
    The kit should be the core of any packing list Items can be added to supplement the survival priorities of Shelter, Water, Fire, Food.

there are plenty of youtube videos that explain and expand on the ten [10] C's of survival

i have added number eleven [11] Communications which covers both licensed and non licensed radios of all types and best to have multiple radios that cover a broad spectrum

most important practise and learn how to use your chosen equipment from inside out and back to front to make it easier if times do get hard

thankfully some can be safely practised in the living room like tieing knots or wrapping up cordage

 

[Woody girl]

Hmm, yes, I forsee a lot of sob stories in the news this winter about how people cannot have their daily shower and keep clean this winter when the power cuts roll out.
Or that they can't afford it.
Everyone will be starving and unable to cook a hot meal, or keep warm.
The 70s was good training for what's down the line, and we should all be cutting back on wasting water at present.
Back then, a washing machine was just a dream, so was an electric kettle as for a shower, the local swimming pool was the only place to get one .or the school changing room!
Handwashing clothes was a norm, so was a daily top and tail wash.
Nobody complained, it was the norm, and it was fine. We will be OK if we keep our heads and prepare wisely, and think back to how things were done not so long ago, within many of our lifetimes.
We will get through the tough times if we just keep on ,prepare wisely, and not panic.
Having spent time off grid, it's not that grim realy, just hard work at times ...and I held down a full time job at the same time, so it is perfectly possible.
Another cheapo tip for the winter blackouts, battery operated fairy lights, or solar garden lights.... something we didn't have in the 70's!

By the way, if the allotment waiting list has more than a certain number of people on it, the council has a duty to provide another allotment area.
I found this legislation many years ago now, can't remember all the details, and forced our local council to provide another allotment area, without having to fight them in any way. It was pretty ropey land, and they tried to make life difficult by saying no sheds, no water was provided, and we had to even prepare the land ourselves from scratch. There were string markers for each plot and that was it, but its looking good now.

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

@knowledge=gain

For all their flaws, its undeniable that electric vehicles get better "mpg" than an ICE engine... this reduces the emissions... is that the total end of story? Of course not, but its a fact nonetheless.

Voip phones for their flaws as I MYSELF stated, mean that they can phase out above ground phone lines, which means less money spent chopping trees and maintaining poles, storm damage becomes less so etc...

What I find amusing is you guys ditching modern tech today in favour of hour long efforts of the assumption that the world as we know is going to end soon...bit of a foolish viewpoint no? Noah was told a flood was coming, do you think he'd ditch his power tools because once the flood comes they'll be redundant? Or make use of them whilst he still can... I mean you're all using the Internet now? Why? Once collapse comes there won't be the Internet...

Amusingly none of you have mentioned how you're going to address the bigger uglier nastier man with the bigger stick when collapse comes?...the one who is going to borrow your rare tools...

Both of you seem so keen to scoff at others for choosing comfort whilst they have it...


EDIT:
I'm not laughing at anyone being prepared for troubled times, I've thoroughly enjoyed the posts and the lessons and advice being shared. The above post is aimed at what I perceived to be a disdain towards technology or those that choose to use it whilst it still currently exists.

 

[slowworm]

Voip phones for their flaws as I MYSELF stated, mean that they can phase out above ground phone lines, which means less money spent chopping trees and maintaining poles, storm damage becomes less so etc...

How does that work? I gather our copper overhead phone lines will be replaced with fibre overhead phone lines, so the same poles (actually often more poles).

 

[Woody girl]

Scottie, why are you so angry?
I can see you will happily keep stuffing your fingers in the pie, and grabbing what you can rather than see the pie is running out and there will be no pie at all.
This thread is about preparing for troubled times, not slagging off those who realise what's coming and the op asked for info on how to prepare for troubled times, not for people to slag off those who actualy try to come up with solutions.
So please stop. It's embarrassing.
This behavior is of a playground bully not good.
We all live differently, some closer to nature than others but it's a personal choice to give up some of this mad world or not. Don't Diss those who live differently to yourself.
Be kind. It makes you a much happier and nicer person.

I'm glad you find it amusing that people do not wish to discuss their private security solutions on a public forum. I wouldn't either, but if a man with a big stick comes calling, he will wish he hadn't! That's all I will say.

 

[Woody girl]

How does that work? I gather our copper overhead phone lines will be replaced with fibre overhead phone lines, so the same poles (actually often more poles).

I think they stopped the roll out as when we had the power cuts last time they realised nobody could call for help, as the phones did not work.
It's a big problem, sometimes progress is not as good as we are led to believe. It's always sold to us on the premis of a better more reliable service that will save money. Turns out, its not so, and can cost lives.
I don't know what we do about it, other than some sort of private comms for emergency use.. more expense on top for us plebs.

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

@Woody girl

I think the anger came after seeing multiple posts from yourself and another member which went rapidly down the road of anti progress and progress is for the elite and that sort of (in my opinion) bs and a disdain for those who use tech you might not feel necessary..

I think your suggestions that I will happily stuffing my fingers in the pie are also pretty inflammatory, chosen as if to calm things down or provide further reactions?

I have no issue at all with anyone wanting to prepare for the worst.. I think it's sensible and enjoyed reading about tips and ideas (including yours) up until the point where I interpreted your wordings as someone with a holier than thou stand point with a slight touch of pleasure at the prospect of using the line "I told you so".. (As I already stated some of you guys have more means of prepping for the end of the world than others, which I guess got lost in all the noise..and at risk of sounding rude, of which i have no intentions of being, some of you guys are older than others... whilst the world still turns a lot of people have lives to lead, the prospect of sitting and waiting for the end times means a lot more time for some than for others..)
The negative pleasure (however incorrectly percieved) surprised me more than anything as I've found a lot of your posts very informative, inclusive and interesting. Perhaps it's my fault for reading both yours and another members posts at the same time.

Edit:
Having reread my previous post, I decided to add a comment, to explain it was not a post aimed at this entire thread, more aimed at the recent dismissive posts.

Whatever the thoughts going forward, I'm happy to address anything anyone wants to aim at me, either publicly on here or privately, but I think we'd all prefer this thread get back to tips about pickling obscene numbers of eggs or making jerky (my personal favourite), or collecting water from these supposed storms which haven't yet happened today...

 

[knowledge=gain]

Hmm, yes, I forsee a lot of sob stories in the news this winter about how people cannot have their daily shower and keep clean this winter when the power cuts roll out.
Or that they can't afford it.
Everyone will be starving and unable to cook a hot meal, or keep warm.
The 70s was good training for what's down the line, and we should all be cutting back on wasting water at present.
Back then, a washing machine was just a dream, so was an electric kettle as for a shower, the local swimming pool was the only place to get one .or the school changing room!
Handwashing clothes was a norm, so was a daily top and tail wash.
Nobody complained, it was the norm, and it was fine. We will be OK if we keep our heads and prepare wisely, and think back to how things were done not so long ago, within many of our lifetimes.
We will get through the tough times if we just keep on ,prepare wisely, and not panic.
Having spent time off grid, it's not that grim realy, just hard work at times ...and I held down a full time job at the same time, so it is perfectly possible.
Another cheapo tip for the winter blackouts, battery operated fairy lights, or solar garden lights.... something we didn't have in the 70's!

By the way, if the allotment waiting list has more than a certain number of people on it, the council has a duty to provide another allotment area.
I found this legislation many years ago now, can't remember all the details, and forced our local council to provide another allotment area, without having to fight them in any way. It was pretty ropey land, and they tried to make life difficult by saying no sheds, no water was provided, and we had to even prepare the land ourselves from scratch. There were string markers for each plot and that was it, but its looking good now.

true and alas we are all going to lose folk that have failed to prepare making very sad times to come because it heat or eat and they will struggle to do both yet alone any one [1] of them

true and great training that was too which many of us must take time to slow down and remember as they were also the best times of my life, eveyry-thing simple and not complicated

home showers came in during the nineteen-eighties [1980]'s prior to that like you we had showers in school changing rooms and sports centres and lidos and was only allowed to use the sports centre showers after swimming and no other activity and iirc some ymca's had showers even those years we had water shortages power-cuts albeit much more frequent than we have during these now-times due to strikes and hot weather and-such

we could drink from a hosepipe and do so much more that folk are not allowed to do due to health and safety police yet we survived and are still here whereby some are over one-hundred [100] years old and are still alive to tell their stories

living off grid is far easier these-days than ever before with solar-power led-lights solar-ovens portable tech and varied communications that were not available during our training back in the day not to mention the more creature-comforts of thermo-sleep-pads and self-inflating mattresses generators that run on water and so much more

it is all about having an open-mindset that is prepared for to adapt for change as and when, have necessary tools and equipment skills and learned how to use those tools and equipment and skills efficiently long before any-thing happens

not to be a worry wart yet has we have seen in the not so distant past and more recently in other countries any-thing can happen at any given moment thereby it is best to be prepared

while some focus on spending upwards of £400.00 on a basic fancy looking knife and will most likely sit on a shelf gathering dust that will not function as well as an all rounder like the much cheaper around £30.00 Mora with a lifetime guarantee the deficit of around £370.00 can be put to better use i.e. making sure loved ones or neighbours et al who are struggling for food or heat or for cooking could be saving their lives or help gathering supplies and tools to help those that can not afford them to survive

not having a go at any-one just putting this into perspective from observations as we really do not know what the future brings during these troubled times

is it best to remind our older generation of the nineteen-seventies [1970]'s and we can help them as best we can get thru this or do we ignore them and let them suffer...??

same for the younger generation and in between...??

do we continue to waste money on frivolous things that bear no significance that continues in feeding the rich and ignoring the poor or put that money and gained skills to better use to help save lives...??

the rich could care not for us, we have to look out for each other as best we can

only each individuals conscious and subconscious and current journey will guide them to do the right or wrong thing

whatever we do now will affect us in our next lives for either positive or negative and if the latter then alas others in this lifetime can non help

interesting knowledge about the allotments and i did not come across that, now i need to do more re-search on res-specific which is always a good thing to gain true-knowledge

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

@knowledge=gain

A couple flaws in what you've written which is for the most part a fair point - "money wasted vs put to good use". A lot of the expensive knives are handmade by individuals... Mora is a large company... so whilst I can't afford an expensive knife and likely fund larger companies with my purchases... those who can, are actually helping the world turn in a level far closer to what this entire thread is about, than those of us who are buying from faceless organisations... and I may be wrong, but i suspect should things go south, a lot of those expensive knives will be knocking about longer than our cheaper counterparts, and the lifetime guarantees might be difficult to claim against..

Additionally a lot of those knives are pleasures to own for many on here, its an investment in someone elses craftsmanship..

So you make a good point, I'm just not convinced the subjects were the right ones to choose...

 

[Woody girl]

I can't be responsible for how you interpret my posts, that's your problem, but I have no intention of being inflammatory or putting progress down.
I have obviously seen a lot more than you, and I'm only trying to pass on the info and knowledge that I have to help people cope.
I can see that not all progress is for the best. Being so reliant on it is comfortable yes, but it will be so much harder to cope when things go belly up, even in small ways, such as rolling power cuts. I'm talking about scaling back, not rejecting all progress which you seem to think I and others are saying.
It may come to that at some point sooner than we think, so it's only sensible to learn from the past, rather than just rejecting it as " old hat and no place in my life now"
I practice what I preach, and I'm comfortable using older methods. I do have modern heating, an air source heat pump, a good power shower, and a jackery for recharging my batteries and USB lamps. So I'm not a total dodo, and I would honestly say, just be sure you are familiar with, and use what items you have on regular practice of grid down scenarios.
One thing I discovered in the last power cuts was that I need a nebuliser..modern tech... I also need a way to power it. Again modern tech to the rescue. But I don't saturate myself with it. TV doesn't work? No problem, I don't watch it and have loved not being spoon fed fantasy and adverts for stuff I don't need or want. Saved on the licence fee, which went into other needed stuff, for living off grid at some point.
I also discovered I could not recharge my rechargeable batteries ...modern tech....., so again, another reason to get a solar power bank with a standard plug option so I could recharge my batteries.
I'm about having a mixture of things, and a low tech backup, such as my weed sprayer power shower, solar radio..again modern tech. So I'm not against it per say, I just don't understand ..and I've seen this with someone who came to me because they were struggling on food parcels and only £7 in the bank.
I gave her seeds helped clear a garden patch, another neighbour donated tomato plants for the green house which remained empty and she never bothered to care for the plants she did have, and was upset that she had no produce.
I donated food to her each week, gave her an oil lamp (makes a lovely old style ornament was her comment a few weeks later) and a small bottle of oil, candles, and a gas stove. That was last summer. She still has no gas, still has no productive garden, it's now a mass of weeds, and she's not bought in any more candles or lamp oil.
She does however now have a new carpet, a huge 50 inch TV on the wall, and a garden swing. Still complaining she's got no money for anything. She gets her family to pay for it all by winging about what she doesn't have, instead of thinking about what she realy need to be comfortable. She wanted a new carpet as the one she had wasn't to her taste, so ripped it out, then complained she was down to bare concrete floor!
I even gave her a plastic garden table and two chairs, kept two for myself, for guests. The other day, she came round and demanded I give her the other two as I now had two steamer chairs and didn't need them and she wanted to have the set!!! (Incidently the steamer chairs are recued and mended from someone else's throw outs.) Despite having a new garden swing seat!
Oh you must take me foraging and teach me to make Jam, I turn up and she's too tired to go. Won't make jam as it needs sugar, and she won't eat sugar as its poisoning her body.
Give me strength.!!!
Needless to say, I don't help her any more.
She only wants a comfortable life. Good luck lady, a comfortable life takes hard work!
Now, I'm not saying you are like her at all, but , tech only needs to be for need rather than everything. I often say I'm a luddite, but its realy a bit of self deprication., which means I am happy being thought of as having nothing, it means the neighbours have no idea and won't come knocking when they can't cope. Grey woman tactics.
I don't mind being seen head down bum up in the hedge picking berries, or recuing stuff from skips. It all adds to the poor person not worth bothering with.
Meanwhile, I'm cosy and not stressing one bit about the future.
Which reminds me, I need more water barrels!

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

That's fair enough @Woody girl but there are variations of a you describe. You yourself talk of using tech, there are those who totally reject it who may look down on you...

I personally see no need to reject things I can currently use... I don't watch TV typically, but every now and again I might want to watch something...if the power fails then fine... but I dont need to launch my TV out the window today purely because the future might make them redundant..

 

[Woody girl]

Well, my trigger moment for no TV, came when it broke down. It wasn't a moment of not going to have TV.
I sat down and thought about it, weighed up the cost of the licence and replacing it, and how it made me feel sat down doing nothing and bring spoon-fed repeats adverts and the amount of electric I consumed, and decided I could use the time and money better.
I am odd for a woman, I don't buy make up as I rarely use it. I don't need hair products past shampoo, and occasionally conditioner,
I use ecco products when I can get them... its been hard lately as our local ecco product business closed down with the pandemic.
It's about small changes in behavior, that can make a big difference to our environment and our lives.
I never use bleach in the loo, as I don't want to flush contaminants down the drain. I don't use room scenters, apart from some beeswax candles, and natural lavender I grow myself and harvest a bit from friends plants too.
Small steps, one change a day or week, make so much difference.

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

Of course and I understand your pov... but equally there are plenty things that I enjoy when I have a moment, such as playing my guitar...which is electric... if the future makes this an untenable hobby then I'll adapt, but for the time being I'll stay plugged in...Time in my life currently is of the essence, I have plenty of manual tools, but whilst the world we live in is as it is, I'll stick with power tools for speed and convenience, I don't remain ignorant to using manual tools, but if I need to cobble something together I will do as required.

I have a TV, doesn't mean its connected to an aerial, nor does it mean I watch it... but it's there should I fancy watching a movie or just enjoying doing nothing as a side from my working week - which is typically close to 100hrs.. Had some time off yesterday and I went coastal walking, sea swimming, plastic collecting and enjoying what nature had for me to admire..

All that being said, this is perhaps where you misinterpreted my posts with your "fingers in the pie" comment (which I didn't appreciate by the way..), I'm not going to leave all the lights on, the taps running, the heating on and the windows open whilst pouring harmful chemicals over the ground and waterways purely because I CAN... I too opt for more eco friendly options, this can be found in forms of led bulbs and a whole myriad of other things...

We have a small balcony where we can grow some herbs, but that's where things end, we don't have the "luxury" of land and countryside to use at our convenience...

 

[knowledge=gain]

@knowledge=gain

For all their flaws, its undeniable that electric vehicles get better "mpg" than an ICE engine... this reduces the emissions... is that the total end of story? Of course not, but its a fact nonetheless.

Voip phones for their flaws as I MYSELF stated, mean that they can phase out above ground phone lines, which means less money spent chopping trees and maintaining poles, storm damage becomes less so etc...

What I find amusing is you guys ditching modern tech today in favour of hour long efforts of the assumption that the world as we know is going to end soon...bit of a foolish viewpoint no? Noah was told a flood was coming, do you think he'd ditch his power tools because once the flood comes they'll be redundant? Or make use of them whilst he still can... I mean you're all using the Internet now? Why? Once collapse comes there won't be the Internet...

Amusingly none of you have mentioned how you're going to address the bigger uglier nastier man with the bigger stick when collapse comes?...the one who is going to borrow your rare tools...

Both of you seem so keen to scoff at others for choosing comfort whilst they have it...


EDIT:
I'm not laughing at anyone being prepared for troubled times, I've thoroughly enjoyed the posts and the lessons and advice being shared. The above post is aimed at what I perceived to be a disdain towards technology or those that choose to use it whilst it still currently exists.

i see there be some confusion

i will try to help alleviate some of this confusion

are we all aware the damage to the planet and the slave labour etcetera that is involved by gathering and mining the materials thru manufacturing and logistical practices plus the environmental damage caused by those logistics getting the materials from country to country and the costs involved for most of our every-day products and including electric-vehicles

as you quite aptly said they do have their flaws some of which have caught on fire which causes toxic-fumes into the environment and could kill or harm their owners or passengers and or innocent folk nearby

are we all aware that we are consistently told we are running out of renewable energy while more and more tech albeit some great tech and then some useless tech that should never be

can we not see the contradiction there...??

so what is the answer or solution to the contradiction...??

as a self-confessed tech-addict i think i am qualified to have a viable input to res-specific

while some tech are great and used appropriately tech can save lives which i am all for and never against albeit a balance is needed for if there be a genuine bona-fide purpose where no other non tech method will work

tech must not take place for natural methods for saving lives or limbs that are proven to work

tech must not take the place for folks jobs

tech must have a genuine bona-fide need and not a perceived need

other than the above i am fine with tech

there should be a reduction in overall tech use for non essential tech thus saving mother-earth from destruction and prolonging the renewable energy reserves we do allegedly have, similar to water-restrictions yet more self-controlled by our own-selves rather than governed by others [yet this is every-ones choice to make or not to make] which i respect

take [voip] for exampla

and [gmrs] reliant on mobile phone masts

when all analogue is fully replaced with digital and reliant on electricity how would folk contact family friends or even emergency services when there are power-cuts...??

this was covered at length in this communication thread and other similar threads on these forums thereby tech do come to the rescue

then there are gps locators and other useful tech that can be used yet not solely relied on

for the bigger man with the stick to borrow tools as you so eloquently put it

it would be better and more correct to say steel tools and threaten or beat you half to death as that is what it will most likely be

i see you have not answered your own question either, are you having difficulty finding the correct words to type or tap...??

for that i and some folk i know have safety measures in place and i guess many other members have also and as above i will not advertise my circumstance over an open forum for obvious personal safety reasons for myself and others and property and as mentioned before is tantamount to bullying and i will add data-mining for personal details for folks situation and security

thereby all those that ignored or just not answered that question are rightly doing so to protect them and their own from the nastiest in life

if you can quote any of my comments in full and not in part with full context that you see in genuine and bona-fide whereby i scoff at others with comfort then i will apologise if i am mistaken

do you really know the meaning and context for the word you sometimes choose before posting them...??

i for one see no disdain towards tech, while some have a place and some do not have a place it is however about the correct balance

that said it is every-ones choice what they do what tech they use

some of us are just sharing our perspective and experience

we all have to see the overall and bigger picture and figure out what works best for each of us

some love tech myself included yet as a tech addict i know what it is like to become far too attached to tech for all the wrong reasons

isn't buschcrafting camping hiking etcetera a way to minimise the use of tech to bare essentials for need and not want or not use tech altogether...?? and use hand-tools as shown at the moot and various other places...??

there is a famous saying that goes something like "you can please some of the people some of the time but you cannot please all the people all of the time"

no one [1] will agree one-hundred [100] percent with others all the time and that is fine but we all have to have open-minds and open-hearts and respect each others view-points whether or not we agree with them in part or in full or whether we choose to allow their view-points to simply annoy us

yes it be true that we still and only just still have freedom-of-speech in the UK and that comes with a caveat for morals and scruples common-decency common-sense common-reasoning common-courtesy and-such to be respectful and treat others as we wish to be treated and speak to others as we would like to be spoken too

that said i do respect every-ones viewpoints post and comments including yours tbh

it all makes for interesting dialogue for sure otherwise it would get dull and boring if we all agreed on one-hundred [100] percent of topics as there would be less need for dialogue and the forum would likely dwindle to nothingness

as it is now only a few post an a regular basis that includes myself albeit a newish member of a few months

how can we make the forums more inviting for new members to interact more frequent...?? and

not feel afraid to ask the questions or provide answers when they could...??

[this may be for a thread of it's own]

 

[Wander]

Looking aside the hypocrisy of some of the views expressed, the general tone is, as always, one that is patronising, confrontational, forwarding a personal agenda, condescending, and snide (in places).
It's these continued low-level annoyances that make one feel negatively disposed toward this poster.
A suggestion was made elsewhere that such behaviour should be reported rather than take matters into one's own hands.
Duly done.

 

[Toddy]

Tbh, I think the thread's lost the plot

None of us are stupid, most of us are very able people, with a wide ranging set of skills.

Preaching to the converted just gets on folks wick.

It would be appreciated if following posts would try to vere in the direction of helpful hints instead of rambling holier-than-thou blasts ?

Me ? I'm an optimist. We've lived through a heck of a lot worse, and we're better founded these days than we have ever been in the past. We live, here in the UK, in a world of excess, and appalling wastefulness.
I'm sorry that people need to use food banks, but how did folks with an tiny fraction of what people have now, manage in the past ? and they did. The fact that we're all here, posting online like this, proves that.

You cut your coat according to your cloth, but if you're clever about it, and skilful, you'll still be warm.....

M

 

[knowledge=gain]

@knowledge=gain

A couple flaws in what you've written which is for the most part a fair point - "money wasted vs put to good use". A lot of the expensive knives are handmade by individuals... Mora is a large company... so whilst I can't afford an expensive knife and likely fund larger companies with my purchases... those who can, are actually helping the world turn in a level far closer to what this entire thread is about, than those of us who are buying from faceless organisations... and I may be wrong, but i suspect should things go south, a lot of those expensive knives will be knocking about longer than our cheaper counterparts, and the lifetime guarantees might be difficult to claim against..

Additionally a lot of those knives are pleasures to own for many on here, its an investment in someone elses craftsmanship..

So you make a good point, I'm just not convinced the subjects were the right ones to choose...

i comprehend and respect your view-point

however

those more expensive knives will be around longer for lack of use and tucked in a draw back-of-cupboard or on-the-shelf etcetera gathering dust

used side by side will they last as long with the same abuse the Mora get...??, we may never know the answer as the more expensive knives will not be used as such

i hear what you say about hand-made v faceless organisations and i disagree in part whereby it does not cost £50.00 to make a knife from raw materials when you factor in the tooling is already bought and paid for and set up for repetitive use, the rest is pure profit

hand-made is typically better than mass produced there are a few exceptions tbh

Mora have a production of many different product and employ many people who work for them and have overheads, yes i do know how businesses are run and operated as i am trained in business law and have temporary run businesses when owners went on their holidays or hospital and-such

hand-made are typically by one [1] person with little to no overheads as many work from home

some may wonder how do i know this

well i personally know a blacksmith who has made and do still make knives from time to time as and when they are called for amongst many other things

i asked them how much does it actually cost him to make a knife similar specs and shape and grind to a £400.00 marketed knife to the point of breaking even, he told me to factor in time spent materials etcetera it would be about £30.00 - £40.00 to actually make, i then asked how much would he sell it for he said around £50.00 - £60.00

some think they find a niche in the market as all they see are £££££ in their head-lights to charge what folk fall for for a brand-name whereby others do same or similar for nowhere as near profit margins

why is it called a brand-name, well it has been suggested that it comes from the branding-iron used on live-stock, whether that be true or not, we may never know

throughout history there are those that price accordingly and their products put to good use and others that price so high they are in-fact ripping folk off just for a brand-name or a fancy design ornament that will least likely be put to good use and might not even be a show piece either

i guess it comes down to having a practical background whereby its having to make do and mend and times we had to get by with little to no money and live within our means and cannot get used to the modern waste of money down the drain throw-away culture

 

[C_Claycomb]

@knowledge=gain
If the purpose of your posts is to communicate, and why else would one post, your current posts could do a better job.

Are you using some kind of speak-to-text software? The length of your posts and their incredibly lack of grammar and readability makes it seem like you are getting "help" from some under-baked software. I don't recall your earlier posts being this way, but everything you have been posting recently looks this way.

It would HUGELY appreciated by everyone if you could post in a more condensed, well written manner and spend some of the time you are currently using to create length or volume in proof reading and editing.

Thank you.

Chris