Pre-Mac MWP at the Wilderness Gathering

[Toadflax]

I saw a Pre-Mac MWP demonstrated at the Wilderness Gathering this weekend and wasn't too impressed with the resulting 'clean' water. I'd read a lot of good things about them and was wondering about getting one, but the demonstrators used it to generate a glassful of 'clean' water out of a bucket of muddy water.

Maybe the water was safe to drink, but it was very cloudy with particulate matter and the person who tasted it described the taste as 'muddy' (which it would be if there were small soil particles suspended in it). I would (perhaps naively) have expected a better visual result from what is not a cheap bit of kit.

The visual quality of water that went through a Millbank bag (OK, you do then need to heat treat the water) was much better - completely clear from what I could see.

Any thoughts from anyone with experience of the Pre-Mac?


Geoff

 

[JonnyP]

Sounds like Smarty.....

 

[Toadflax]

I think that was his name...

...I think he said after every bit of purifying kit "but I'd still boil it".


Geoff

 

[Ahjno]

I saw a Pre-Mac MWP demonstrated at the Wilderness Gathering this weekend and wasn't too impressed with the resulting 'clean' water. I'd read a lot of good things about them and was wondering about getting one, but the demonstrators used it to generate a glassful of 'clean' water out of a bucket of muddy water.

Maybe the water was safe to drink, but it was very cloudy with particulate matter and the person who tasted it described the taste as 'muddy' (which it would be if there were small soil particles suspended in it). I would (perhaps naively) have expected a better visual result from what is not a cheap bit of kit.

The visual quality of water that went through a Millbank bag (OK, you do then need to heat treat the water) was much better - completely clear from what I could see.

Any thoughts from anyone with experience of the Pre-Mac?


Geoff

That's news I didn't want to hear ... as I was looking for one aswell.
Of course - you should look for the cleanest and healthiest looking watersource, but sometimes these are not at hand. I recall last March when I was out with PC2K ... our location should have had a pump for ground water. And I completely forgot to make a phonecall to the forrestry commission to ask if it was connected (due to risk frostdamage).
No stream, pond or other decent source of water where near ... Only a big puddle of rain water, which really was extremely liquidy mud

Using a Millbank bag wasn't succesfull (the water stayed in and only dripped with a rate of 4 drops/hour :Wow: - Waterfilter (MSR) broke ... ... only with constant cleaning and carefull pumping we managed to get about 1.5 ltr of clean water, which we boiled (a good choice eventhough it looked clear. In the end there was a crack in the filter, meaning the clear water was contaminated ... )
(Think the error the Millbank failing was in soaking it not thoroughly enough before using it ...)

In the end we were saved by a gent who was walking his dog and lived in a nearby (500m) house. He invited us to fill our waterbag at his place, to get us through the night.

I think what I mean with this story is you should always look for the clearest (etc.) source for water. If this is not at hand, and you have to take your refuge to a muddy puddle: use every available technique you know to filter it and bring it (water) in a better condition (clearer) than you found it. Only then use a filter/purifier. This way you ensure clean/pure water and it prolonges life of your filter/purifier.

Now ... if there's someone out there reading this thread and decides to get rit of his MWP, let me know

 

[JonnyP]

I think that was his name...

...I think he said after every bit of purifying kit "but I'd still boil it".


Geoff

It was where you said a bucket of muddy water that made me wonder....He is a top man is Smarty and what he doesn't know about purification isn't worth knowing..

 

[Toadflax]

One tip that "Smarty" said (hope I'm not being too familiar!) is that when you first buy a Millbank bag, stick it in the washing machine and do all you can to make it 'old'. It seems that a well used Millbank bag will feed water at a much better rate than a brand new one.


Geoff

 

[ArkAngel]

I have a pre-mac and it works fine.

I must admit i have never used it in really filthy conditions. I tend to filter from streams and lakes not from muddy buckets.
There can be a slight chemical taste to it but i always carry a small bottle of some type of flavouring (orange juice, ribena etc).

No problems in the stomach department yet.

 

[benp1]

One tip that "Smarty" said (hope I'm not being too familiar!) is that when you first buy a Millbank bag, stick it in the washing machine and do all you can to make it 'old'. It seems that a well used Millbank bag will feed water at a much better rate than a brand new one.

Didn't know that, good tip!

 

[Ogri the trog]

Didn't know that, good tip!

Likewise,
I had been keeping mine "as new" in the belief that if I needed it, it would be better on first use. Seems like I'm wrong (again) and have to re research my theories.

Cheers Geoff

 

[born2roam]

Well,

I have used my pre mac MWP quite a lot in SE Asia, Australia and Central America, mostly when we had no time to boil the water and I needed a quick refill of my water bottles during the hike/day. I never had any problems!! And yes, a safer option is to boil it too.

As with (afaik) all filters you should try and take out the bigger particles anyway. I have wound some silk cloth (from a worn down sleeping bag liner) around the intake to "pre filter" the (dirty) water.

Somewhere I have written down my water filtration log, to keep a record of when I need to replace my filter ;-)

For larger quantities we used the camp/cooking fire anyway...Water boiled on a fire really gives a distinct "burned wood taste" by the way...

Millbank and boiling... mmmm. Now I am not sure but boiling and chemical pollution don't work as well as a waterfilter doesn't it? Really not sure 'cos I never thought about it during my trips.....

Grtz Johan

 

[leon-1]

I have done courses on water whilst in the forces. Pre-Macs are good purifiers and many people use them.

Personally I don't use one (though I have in the past) as I consider them to be expensive. I normally use a Katadyn Mini and even when water is being forced through a 0.2micron filter you will not get it totally clear especially if it's coming off something like a peat bog or somewhere that is peaty like Dartmoor.

Millbank Bags are very good at what they do and the only thing that lets the small ones down is the flow rate.

 

[Toadflax]

Useful to hear opinions from some actual users of the MWP system. To be fair to the presenters at the Wilderness Gathering, they weren't in a position to offer opinions on the kit they were demonstrating but it was a very comprehensive demo of a very wide range of purifying equipment, and so was well worth attending.

For me the MWP is a 'nice to have', something that I'd probably never, or very rarely, use 'in anger' but one of those things that might be nice as a birthday or Christmas present. Far more potential use than some electronic gizmo bought out of a catalogue.

So thanks to the Footsteps people for the demos, and the others on this thread for their comments.


Geoff

 

[EdS]

I avoid it all by taking a box of Westons organic cider instead.

 

[FGYT]

funnily enough i chucked my MWP in the bin just before going to the gathering

I got it years ago when they first camp ou and used it a fair bit in and around England with no problems it was chucked cause its been in the loft for 10yrs plus and was out of date and all perished etc

my mate got the PWP at the same time and has used it all over the world from Jungle to Dessert and Artic and had no problems with it on its second set of filters i believe

i would get one again but the price is now a lot more and i would get the PWP
flter it before the PWP to help filter life and boil it after to help taste an just in case

ATB

Duncan

 

[SMARTY]

Thanks for your comments fellas. I'm not trying to diss any of the commercial walter filters / purifiers on the market. The UK military use the Pre Mac MWP. Check the label. I a'int found one yet that will gauarntee 100% against virus. Boilling will kill the wiggly critters dead, thats a fact. If you a'nt tactical make the time to boil. Just because you havn't had an upset stomach yet is no guarantee that it won't happen in the future. I've used Pre Mac and Sweet Water pumps on some pretty grotty water because that was the only solution at the time. Ensure you allow any chemical treatment the correct contact time as a minimum. Note that water temperature and turbidity will be a contirbuting factor too. My first choice is always to boil. Your money, Your body, Your choice.

 

[PhilParry]

I've used a Pre-Mac MWP for a couple of years now in outdoor places such as Sweden and the last lake we took water from was pretty mucky. Yes, the water was slightly off colour and yes, it tasted a little "peaty" but don't forget that you should leave the water for 5+ minutes to allow the iodine to do the last job for you.

I've also put a bit of old cotton shirt over the end of mine - this doesn't so much assist with the quality of the water but does prevent the filter from clogging up too early and having to be replaced.

In all instances I've used it the water I drank has been fine. No issues whatsoever.

If in doubt, boil it, but you don't a) always have the time for this and b) have the means!

my tuppence worth anyway.....

P

 

[WilliamEd]

Hi, Sorry to stick my oar in here as I'm new but I thought I would just add a little.

I have always carried 2 items in my water purification kit and have never experienced and ilness/bad effects from water all over the world (and I have had to use some discusting water)

Firstly I use an MSR Mini Works EX to pump/filter the water into a suitable container.
This nearly always gives the water a clear look and removes most of the bacteria and particulate.

In theory you could possibly drink the water then but I then add a dose from an MSR MIOX which kills off just about everything that is left. The stand time is approx 15minutes for Viruses or 4hours for Crypto. I know that 4 hours sound excessive but I alternate two 1 litre bottles and when trekking tend to drink 1 litre every 4 hours so this works well for me.

The 2 items cost me a lot more than a Millbank or Pre-Mac but I have tried many different purification/filtration methods in the past and am most happiest with this one and I would say that £150 for many years travelling bug free is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[phaserrifle]

I think the Pre-macs are supposed to leave a trace of iodine in the water, to ensure it does not have anything nasty living in it. could be the reason for some of the discouloration. I could be wrong though

 

[Joff]

Check out Lifesaver Bottles (www.lifesaversystems.com) - awesome bits of kit and they don't use chemicals!

 

[Squidders]

A good while ago, bambodoggy, myself and a few others had a fairly primative weekend... took water from the canal (filth!) filtered it through a sock in to a billy can, then boiled it.

Perfectly fine after and we were drinking it all weekend... the one thing that did strike us was how labour intensive the whole process was.

Any filter will help a lot but going back to basics also works.