Poor show

[Toddy]

So, you have a quiet-ish bit of woodland, one that the locals know they're welcome to come and have a walk through. Take their dogs for a wander. Chill out, etc.,
No real footpaths, just quiet trails.
You take a look one day and suddenly someone's building dens, cutting down trees, setting up bike trails and jumps, air rifle ranges, and the place instead of being vibrant green set aside as a natural area, is suddenly a howf….and because it's photos of that trashed area that's showing, folks think it's not worth bothering about ?

As for a slow day on the newspaper….well, farmers take a dim view of folks trashing their lands, even set aside for nature lands. If it had been my land, I'd have reported it too.
This is no bothy land, this is simply a bit of woodland in the middle of farming land. Don't try to claim some higher ground here, because there isn't any.
This is the kind of thing that discourages other landowners from allowing more than just the right to roam, but sees gates closed, no new pathways, no new access….oh, and the airguns are illegal here unless licenced and given permission.
Strike two.

I wholeheartedly encourage the Right of responsible access, but that comes with responsibilities. You can't cherry pick the bits you want and ignore the rest.

M

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

That comment re 'working class folk' killed me hammock_man

In my own decades long involvement of working with and sometimes for the landed gentry most of them (not all) have considered themselves the stewards of the land that they 'own' with a responsibility to protect it and provide public access when possible. Some work fairly hard to maintain both of those situations.

As I stated previously - the issue is about education.

Those expressing views about it being evidence of (ill informed) youthful exuberance are probably correct - to a degree, but Toddy more so - all the way to the courtroom if the landowner, the police and the Can't Prosecute Service all see a need to pursue it to that extent.

IMHO getting the culprits to make good the situation as best they can and then showing them a less damaging way of conducting themselves makes more sense - at least on the first occasion.

I have dealt with several similar instances. In most cases it has been non malicious but damaging none the less.

Notably, when eventually brought to book (confronted as opposed to prosecuted!) many have cited their inspiration came from certain TV and YouTube personalities who p[romote their activities (interestingly not one has ever cited BCUK!) but most without any pre or post programme or video message(s) about seeking permissions and conducting themselves appropriately. Now when you consider who one of the ambassadors for the UK Scout association is and the reference in my previous post re Scouts, it makes you wonder!

I once suggested that the new BCUK website has a 'reference source' button at the top of the page (facts and figures of commonly used equipment types, clothing colour chart etc - perhaps the first source could be the BCUK code of conduct for bush-crafting with a pre requisite action before being able to go further is a check box to tick. I don't know, I'm just thinking on my seat here but it might go some way towards having to repeat a lot of the comment in this thread in the future?

 

[Nice65]

I have just looked at some of the photo's on the facebook page they put up...https://www.facebook.com/Savetheganghut-528446350612691/
Find it hard to call people who built some of that stuff vandals
[FONT=&amp]Fihttps://www.facebook.com/Savetheganghut-528446350612691/
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hhttps://www.facebook.com/Savetheganghut-528446350612691/

As far as I could see, nothing but positive comment from people glad to see the Xbox generation doing something a bit more Famous Five.

 

[dave89]

What about this scenario then, I've seen plenty of fire kits on here that include birch bark, horseshoof fungus, cramp balls etc etc.. now if we presume these items were sourced from privately owned lad (which most of it is in the UK) is this theft??? if so should these people be prosecuted to the full extent of the law?? id be upset if someone came on to my garden and took strawberry's

 

[dewi]

So, you have a quiet-ish bit of woodland, one that the locals know they're welcome to come and have a walk through. Take their dogs for a wander. Chill out, etc.,
No real footpaths, just quiet trails.
You take a look one day and suddenly someone's building dens, cutting down trees, setting up bike trails and jumps, air rifle ranges, and the place instead of being vibrant green set aside as a natural area, is suddenly a howf….and because it's photos of that trashed area that's showing, folks think it's not worth bothering about ?

As for a slow day on the newspaper….well, farmers take a dim view of folks trashing their lands, even set aside for nature lands. If it had been my land, I'd have reported it too.
This is no bothy land, this is simply a bit of woodland in the middle of farming land. Don't try to claim some higher ground here, because there isn't any.
This is the kind of thing that discourages other landowners from allowing more than just the right to roam, but sees gates closed, no new pathways, no new access….oh, and the airguns are illegal here unless licenced and given permission.
Strike two.

I wholeheartedly encourage the Right of responsible access, but that comes with responsibilities. You can't cherry pick the bits you want and ignore the rest.

M

From a legal perspective, you're entirely correct M... I personally wasn't focusing on the legality of some kids playing in the woods and building a den, more about what they learn doing it.

I did write a couple of paragraphs out, but reading it back before posting I've deleted it all. Not because there wasn't a point to make, but more because an open discussion about what I'd written generally isn't welcomed any more. We must stick rigidly to the rules and there are no grey areas.

So you're completely right M, these young people whoever they are should be found, forced to remove every last trace of what they've built and once they've done that there should be some long lasting record posted on some sort of national database to ensure the crimes they have committed are never forgotten. In fact, a couple of prison sentences should deter any youngsters from ever following their example.

I'm going to grab my kelly kettle, go sit on a log in the garden, make a nice cuppa and think about what I've done.

 

[Toddy]

Mince.

Honestly it is.
We have huge issues up here with lands that hundreds of thousands of us quietly wandered, camped and enjoyed, that have become so totally trashed, that now there are byelaws proscribing the very activities that we welcomed with the Right of responsible access being enshrined in law.

This is another site that will end up with the easy access routes blocked, removed and otherwise discouraged…..all because some numpties decided they could do what they liked without regard to anyone else.

Those who are declaiming the view that this building work, this 'den', bike trail, shooting range is just not on, and that it's just good chaps out to do what a boy's got to do, need to have a really good think about it.

It's not their land, they have trashed a woodland, they have made it into a no-go zone, they have irked the farmer enough that he called the police….and up here airguns are considered as firearms.

So, you get off your high horse, and actually read what has been written. Or does bushcraft no longer advocate, encourage and promote "Leave No Trace" ?

M

 

[dewi]

Mince.

Honestly it is.
We have huge issues up here with lands that hundreds of thousands of us quietly wandered, camped and enjoyed, that have become so totally trashed, that now there are byelaws proscribing the very activities that we welcomed with the Right of responsible access being enshrined in law.

This is another site that will end up with the easy access routes blocked, removed and otherwise discouraged…..all because some numpties decided they could do what they liked without regard to anyone else.

Those who are declaiming the view that this building work, this 'den', bike trail, shooting range is just not on, and that it's just good chaps out to do what a boy's got to do, need to have a really good think about it.

It's not their land, they have trashed a woodland, they have made it into a no-go zone, they have irked the farmer enough that he called the police….and up here airguns are considered as firearms.

So, you get off your high horse, and actually read what has been written. Or does bushcraft no longer advocate, encourage and promote "Leave No Trace" ?

M

I honestly wasn't attempting to get on a 'high horse'. I was attempting to be good humoured about what I thought was a discussion and obviously failed abysmally.

I apologise for commenting, it won't happen again M.

 

[Toddy]

Oh no, you are very welcome to comment, but you have to expect that not everyone will agree with you, and that people are quite prepared to defend their opinions.
That's why it's a discussion
The unfortunate bit is that it's hard to convey humour, and gentle ribbing, on an online forum. Without expression and intonation, the words we write miss the reality of full and easy communication at times.

M

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

It's not just 'up there' Toddy - it is widespread and in my experience becoming more prevalent.

I've come across it up your neck of the woods - Glen Coe - but done by sassenachs I'm sad to admit! In Snowdonia and in The Lake District.

And it isn't just 'kids' 'youngsters' who might not know (have been taught) better - it is grown men in their 20s/30s/40s +.

Somehow we have grown a cadre of muppets with no common sense, you've only got to read some of the knife discussions on here, looks like it applies to other topics too.

If I could do that blue bubble thing I'd reference Janne's earlier comment re the UK. How do you do that blue bubble thing?

Mean time Toddy have this on me -

 

[Alan 13~7]

I have been following this thread & have found it to be most entertaining

I myself too as a kid have played/built dens/tree platforms, & at the time I never gave it a second thought as to who actually owned the land where we played or as to how environmentally friendly the impact of our actions were & we yes we also had 7" bowie knives strapped to our belts & carried .22 air rifles & sometimes recklessly even shot at each other for fun.... times were different when we were kids well for me anyway....
granted anything we built was not as extravagant or on this scale so I have to admire the skill level & craftsmanship required to covertly achieve such a build & at the back of my mind I have to also wonder if there is not more to this than we are being led to believe...

A more plausable scenario might be... the land owner could have perhaps granted permition to a few kids (ie the first builders) to play/build say a maybe bmx track not fully realizing the extent the build would reach then perhaps the few became many & the build became extensive He quickly regretted giving said permition & perhaps the land owner rather than face confrontation with the now many decided thought it might be better to simply denie what had actualy happened & involved the police with the hard to believe story that we were presented with in order to regain control of the site & the situation.

either way rules are rules... & young adults old enough to know better or possibly just kids...

I fully agree these young people whoever they are should be found, and brought to book..... I think prison sentences to be a bit harsh though...
I think a fitting punishment for the crime, might be community service for the perpetrators, they should be forced to remove every last trace of what they've built and once they've done that, they should be re~educate with further community service funded by fines to replace the site to the former glory

 

[Janne]

ommmmmmmmm

 

[Toddy]

I'd be quite happy just to see it cleared up and the woodland restored. I'm not sure if it would placate the farmer/landowner, but if were mine, it would do. He seemed happy enough to have folks access the woodland, so he's not agin the idea. Just agin the damage, etc.,
How the police will deal with the air gun bit though

M

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

Janne - the blue bubble which quotes someone's previous post.

PS Anybody want to start a collection for new shoes for hammock_man?

 

[Corso]

I'd be quite happy just to see it cleared up and the woodland restored. I'm not sure if it would placate the farmer/landowner, but if were mine, it would do. He seemed happy enough to have folks access the woodland, so he's not agin the idea. Just agin the damage, etc.,
How the police will deal with the air gun bit though

M

From the limited damage to the target it looks like an airsoft gun so I would doubt they'd do much at all

 

[Nice65]

Aye Up,

Janne - the blue boobies which quotes someone's previous post.

Press 'Reply with Quote', then 'Reply to Thread'. Remove any of the quote you don't want, leaving the [Qoute marks at each end. Voila.

You out can even make a mischief of yourself by making subtle changes.

 

[Toddy]

From the limited damage to the target it looks like an airsoft gun so I would doubt they'd do much at all

I read that there were .22 slugs found, and that the landowner had given no permission. Sections 19 and 21A.
That's why it's an issue, especially near where public walk.

M

 

[Janne]

Press 'Reply with Quote', then 'Reply to Thread'. Remove any of the quote you don't want, leaving the [Qoute marks at each end. Voila.

You out can even make an @$$ of the poster by making subtle changes. [/QU

 

[Toddy]

Like this?

Ah, you got the hang of it then

 

[Janne]

ommmmmmmmmm

 

[Toddy]

Aye, did you see that ?
What a scam
I suppose it's a heads up for a lot of us to have a good look at what we do with our photos though.

M