Poor quality chinese sewing needles.

mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
9,990
12
Selby
www.mikemountain.co.uk
I've yet to find a leatherwork needle that lasts more than 2 workpieces.
I need, thin, short, short round eye and a rounded tip.

Any suggestions. I use tapestry needles at the moment and they have a long thin eye which makes them weak.

Cheers

Mike
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
I recently used just two jj saddlers needles from china to make six sheaths, a pouch, a belt keeper andd a belt loop for an axe, also to modify some other bits, no sign of deformation at all, I had to use pliers on the first multi layer sheath to pull the needles through, I have no qualms using these at all. Bemmoaning the quality of products produced in the far east under licence of uk companies is silly, the quality control is still in thehands of the uk counterpart, if the quality sucks then complain about the willingness of the uk company to sell shoddy goods, the place of manufacture is irrelivent these days.
 
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fishfish

Full Member
Jul 29, 2007
2,352
5
52
wiltshire
like i said in my op buy vintage,china was still in the stone age when we were making needles as good as the ones i got.
 

grey-array

Full Member
Feb 14, 2012
1,067
4
The Netherlands
To drop into this land of fabrication discussion, as a product engineer/developer I am more then aware of the different qualities of work,
and the reality is that it indeed is harder to get the same quality product from countries like China, this is how ever not always the fault of the producer himself but often is to blame to quality control,
as it is very hard to do a good quality control from 3200 miles away. But these problems can be encountered by hiring someone local, educating them on how to identify a bad product from a good one, and then leave this person to keep things in line.
it requires a couple of trips to China, and bit of hart-ache but in the end you should be able to get the same product, and also don't forget they have 14 hour shifts in the majority of factories there, that surely dampens the quality of work to some degree.

Yours sincerely Ruud

ps
Mary,
I tried breaking or bending the tips of the JJ needle I have all the four thicknesses blunt saddlers needles, but no bends or breaks so I figure quality is still good, evn tried with my teeth ^^ to give them a good test ;)
 

tombear

On a new journey
Jul 9, 2004
4,494
556
55
Rossendale, Lancashire
Before we knew they weren't made in Redditch still we ordered a couple of packs so when they arrive ill compare them with some pre war ones I have from there under a glass to see if there's a visible difference. I'm sure they will be fine for my use but I'd be interested to know the difference. I won't be buying any more as I have a fetish for buying British that's a emotional not a rational thing but that's my hang up ;-(D)

if any one wants a borrow of the Shire book drop us a pm.

ATB

Tom
 

Bardster

Native
Apr 28, 2005
1,118
12
55
Staplehurst, Kent
The super power economy, fueled by selling the poorest quality items on the planet! shocking really.

I wonder how hard it is to make a needle? does it require smelting, presses, moulds etc?

http://www.entacolimited.com/How-needles-are-made.html


to be fair, if they have gone the same route as spyderco, and sent engineers over there and taught them strict quality control, then the quality may well be the same as that produced here, its certainly the case with spyderco's chinese made knives, but then they keep a very close eye on QC. I have to admit I havn't noticed any quality difference, and students learning to sew thick leather can be very hard on needles :D a couple of slight bends but no breaks.
 

Keith_Beef

Native
Sep 9, 2003
1,389
276
55
Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
http://www.entacolimited.com/How-needles-are-made.html


to be fair, if they have gone the same route as spyderco, and sent engineers over there and taught them strict quality control, then the quality may well be the same as that produced here, its certainly the case with spyderco's chinese made knives, but then they keep a very close eye on QC. I have to admit I havn't noticed any quality difference, and students learning to sew thick leather can be very hard on needles :D a couple of slight bends but no breaks.

My idea of how to make them was not so far off what Entaco describes, then...

I'm not a great fan of Spyderco knives, though I like the Native III that I have, and really liked a Paramilitary that I had on a BB passround about ten years ago. Other than that, I don't find them that comfortable in the hand or aesthetic. The Byrd range is just as uncomfortable, but uglier.

Also, I have to admit that there is a good-sized bit of sentiment in my bias against some Chinese-made goods.

I understand that the Chinese factories can make decent quality things, but that the importers have ordered things to be made down to a price, rather up to a level of quality. This is in a big part down to a vicious spiral of things being cheap enough to replace rather than repair, and also to our avariciously acquisitive society... So when an object breaks we replace it, but with two new items that are of slightly inferior quality. Each time, we have the illusion of getting what we were looking for at only half the price of the thing it replaced. So we buy two. And then then next cycle is shorter...

Part of my reluctance, therefore, to those goods is that the erstwhile manufacturer now merely an importer is trading on a reputation built up for good workmanship in the UK , Europe or N.America and is now charging the same for what has become an import from a cheap-labour country that has very shoddy environmental and workforce protection. The price tag for me, retail, is maybe slightly lower than what I used to pay (for a packet of needles, for example), but now a greater share of that is going into the pocket of the accountant or banker, and much less into the pocket of the people producing the stuff. And externalized costs are polluting the environment and poisoning the workers.

We have accepted this idea of "progress" being "increasing material wealth", which we far too often simplistically equate with "every increasing amounts of stuff"... and necessarily the system is wasteful.
 

grey-array

Full Member
Feb 14, 2012
1,067
4
The Netherlands
Keith Beef, my dear sir, you are preaching into the choir ^^
I completely agree with you, we should all get back to making and purchasing quality stuff instead of creating waste by creating these inferior products.
But lets get this thread back on the rail ^^
Needles right ^^

And Bard, I didn't know that of spyderco, but that is a nice piece of information to have, thanks for that one.

Yours sincerely Ruud
 
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ForgeCorvus

Nomad
Oct 27, 2007
425
1
52
norfolk
I'll have a look at my recent lot of Glover's needles and see what I've got, and compare to the remains of the pack I bought a while back (thinking on it, it was before I got married.... We've just had our 11th anniversary )
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
67
Florida
like i said in my op buy vintage,china was still in the stone age when we were making needles as good as the ones i got.

Actually it's the other way round. China already had a high degree of civilization when Western Europe was still in mud huts.
 

Keith_Beef

Native
Sep 9, 2003
1,389
276
55
Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
Actually it's the other way round. China already had a high degree of civilization when Western Europe was still in mud huts.

Mud huts? Try wattle and daub with thatched roof, or stone walls with slate roof, while the Chinese were building out of bamboo... Each civilization builds with the materials to hand, and develops the technology necessary for it.

The Chinese invented or discovered quite a few things before the Europeans, and the Europeans invented or discovered quite a few things before the Chinese. But the Chinese very often seem to have been content to freeze the object at the stage of a demonstration, a curiosity or a toy.

I think that by about 1500 Europe and China were about on a level footing, but then China stalled and Europe (especially Northern Europe) took the lead. Things are coming back into balance, though.

But I think that accepting cheap, low-quality goods from any country, not just from China, does the whole world a disservice. It might put a few yuan in the pocket of the Chinese factory worker now, and a few thousand dollars in the pocket of an American or European CEO, but it does nothing for the world as a whole.

And as I think I've said in another thread, the world is not a zero-sum game where one person's success must necessarily mean another person's failure.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
67
Florida
Mud huts? Try wattle and daub with thatched roof, or stone walls with slate roof, while the Chinese were building out of bamboo... Each civilization builds with the materials to hand, and develops the technology necessary for it.

The Chinese invented or discovered quite a few things before the Europeans, and the Europeans invented or discovered quite a few things before the Chinese. But the Chinese very often seem to have been content to freeze the object at the stage of a demonstration, a curiosity or a toy.

I think that by about 1500 Europe and China were about on a level footing, but then China stalled and Europe (especially Northern Europe) took the lead. Things are coming back into balance, though.

But I think that accepting cheap, low-quality goods from any country, not just from China, does the whole world a disservice. It might put a few yuan in the pocket of the Chinese factory worker now, and a few thousand dollars in the pocket of an American or European CEO, but it does nothing for the world as a whole.

And as I think I've said in another thread, the world is not a zero-sum game where one person's success must necessarily mean another person's failure.

Perhaps irrelevant to the comment as to which civilization developped earliest. BUT!!! The further comments are quite true indeed regarding the later development and current states of affairs, No arguements here at all. In fact that was part of the point of my original comment; the point being that it's immaterial which developped first.
 

Keith_Beef

Native
Sep 9, 2003
1,389
276
55
Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
Perhaps irrelevant to the comment as to which civilization developped earliest. BUT!!! The further comments are quite true indeed regarding the later development and current states of affairs, No arguements here at all. In fact that was part of the point of my original comment; the point being that it's immaterial which developped first.

You're right, and I tend to wander off topic as seen as the conversation starts to touch upon one of my pet subjects... Economics, history of science and technology... I think I need to switch off my computer, and go and start cutting up the two hares that have been hanging in the garage for the past couple of days.
 

tombear

On a new journey
Jul 9, 2004
4,494
556
55
Rossendale, Lancashire
Just received the two 25 packs we ordered, the long earners are marked


Entaco limited
Redditch, Worcester....

Assembled and inspected in England using needles made in China to Entaco's quality and specification.

while the cotton darners are

Entaco Limited
Studley, Warwickshire.....

packed and inspected in EU using needles made in China to Entaco's quality and speification

the packaging is different as well, the same basic colour scheme but they have removed the Est 1840 from the logo and the crown and dragon has been replaced by a stylised flower.


atb

Tom
 

mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
9,990
12
Selby
www.mikemountain.co.uk
Just received the two 25 packs we ordered, the long earners are marked


Entaco limited
Redditch, Worcester....

Assembled and inspected in England using needles made in China to Entaco's quality and specification.

while the cotton darners are

Entaco Limited
Studley, Warwickshire.....

packed and inspected in EU using needles made in China to Entaco's quality and speification

the packaging is different as well, the same basic colour scheme but they have removed the Est 1840 from the logo and the crown and dragon has been replaced by a stylised flower.


atb

Tom


So are they any good?
 

tombear

On a new journey
Jul 9, 2004
4,494
556
55
Rossendale, Lancashire
I'll start another sewing project and see. The inside of the eyes feel rather rough when you drag a point over them which does not bode well but it's a case of suck it and see.

atb

Tom
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,809
S. Lanarkshire
Recent trawl through ebay.....these are ones I would buy. They might not suit everybody size wise, but they won't be poor quality.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mint-Vint...Crafts_Sewing_Supplies_MJ&hash=item19d5e94019

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-L...Crafts_Sewing_Supplies_MJ&hash=item56547989bf
superb buy if you add up the price of decent needles :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-N...Crafts_Sewing_Supplies_MJ&hash=item5aef72afc5
Though the postage is ridiculous on that one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...Crafts_Sewing_Supplies_MJ&hash=item53f6e0a12c

cheers,
M
 

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