Has anyone got a link to reliable source of US genuine issue poncho woodland camo? I already have 2 but i would like to get one for my nephew.
I have the item in question. The problem with Poncho/Tarps is that if you are using it as a tarp, then what do you wear against the rain.? FWIW it is a very packable (takes up almost no space) multi purpose utility thing, a poncho for a downpour you were not expecting and a groundsheet when it is wet. Not the best poncho in the world however that accolade has to go to the Swiss Army Alpenflage Poncho, which would withstand a deluge of Noahide proportions, however not much good as a shelter.
For me personally the poncho is a quick cover up in a sudden unexpected deluge. my basha serves as my main cover/tarp at night. I am not bothered about weight or bulk.
I also have a very compact umbrella which is good value. as you can see i dont like getting wet, actually dont mind the rain but when accompanied by a cold wind then i will try and stay dry.
I think osmosis, condensation/sweating and lack of true breathability will always win the "Stay dry" battle, unless you are a duck
I also have a very compact umbrella which is good value. as you can see i dont like getting wet, actually dont mind the rain but when accompanied by a cold wind then i will try and stay dry.
I think osmosis, condensation/sweating and lack of true breathability will always win the "Stay dry" battle, unless you are a duck
You can stay under the shelter.
Or you can use a very light jacket, which wouldn't be waterproof enough for longer heavy rain. But you can use it as a wind breaker over the fleece jacket and for a short expedition.
(For example this cheap Quechua RAIN CUT JACKET which weights only 175g in size L)
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/raincut-mens-waterproof-jacket-black-id_8300326.html
And even if you take a normal light rain jacket with you, you can dry the poncho tarp on the man while you are hiking, instead of doing a whet tarp in your ruck sack.
And you can dry it in the bakers shop if you order a coffee! A tarp you can't dry there!
But of course: Optimal is the poncho alone in relatively dry conditions to protect us against unexpected rain.
That is a fantastic summer equipment. And especially Americans, French, Germans and Italians love it for summer use, where a Gore-Tex suit wouldn't work very well.
There is a reason, why you can get an original German army Gore-Tex Flecktarn poncho (relatively heavy), an Opex CCE poncho, that can be used in the French army "under special circumstances" ( not wide enough as bivvy bag), and the recommended original Italian army Defcon 5 poncho, but not current Scandinavian or British army ponchos. (So far I am informed): That is mainly equipment for warm weather and short rain.
But I use it in whet and cold conditions too. And I used it without an additional windbreaker for many years. No problem!
It is good for people who move with the whole equipment if they don't sleep.
You wear the poncho as rain coat until you want to sleep and take out your sleeping and bivvy bag.
That is hiking equipment, no camping equipment!
For camping a large tent and a rain suit are better, no question!
Or you can use a very light jacket, which wouldn't be waterproof enough for longer heavy rain. But you can use it as a wind breaker over the fleece jacket and for a short expedition.
(For example this cheap Quechua RAIN CUT JACKET which weights only 175g in size L)
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/raincut-mens-waterproof-jacket-black-id_8300326.html
And even if you take a normal light rain jacket with you, you can dry the poncho tarp on the man while you are hiking, instead of doing a whet tarp in your ruck sack.
And you can dry it in the bakers shop if you order a coffee! A tarp you can't dry there!
But of course: Optimal is the poncho alone in relatively dry conditions to protect us against unexpected rain.
That is a fantastic summer equipment. And especially Americans, French, Germans and Italians love it for summer use, where a Gore-Tex suit wouldn't work very well.
There is a reason, why you can get an original German army Gore-Tex Flecktarn poncho (relatively heavy), an Opex CCE poncho, that can be used in the French army "under special circumstances" ( not wide enough as bivvy bag), and the recommended original Italian army Defcon 5 poncho, but not current Scandinavian or British army ponchos. (So far I am informed): That is mainly equipment for warm weather and short rain.
But I use it in whet and cold conditions too. And I used it without an additional windbreaker for many years. No problem!
It is good for people who move with the whole equipment if they don't sleep.
You wear the poncho as rain coat until you want to sleep and take out your sleeping and bivvy bag.
That is hiking equipment, no camping equipment!
For camping a large tent and a rain suit are better, no question!
I’ve just received one of these, super light, compact and looks some good kit, I’m going to need to plan a rainy bivi camp to test it now
Thanks for the heads up @Erbswurst
Aah! Oh!
Aah, Eeh, Iih, Ooh, Uuh!
Throw it on the electronic kitchen scales please or put it on the post or vegetable balance next door!
Exact measures?
200cm x 168cm? Is that correct?
Snaps around?
In both directions like the old NATO ponchos or only one direction?
Can you fold it to a bivvy bag, close it with the snaps, and do you fit in there comfortably with your Sleeping bag?
Could you attach a second one to make a two persons A-frame shelter? 200 cm long, 168cm each upper side of the triangle, round about 120 cm high from the ground to the tip?
8 eyelets, how it should be? One in every corner and one in every middle of the edges?
Inner diameter of the eyelets?
Is the hole in it large enough to fit over the hood of a normal parka? Is the hood large enough to wear a military helmet or thick winter hat under it?
Is that 100% a well known original old school NATO poncho, only far lighter, or is there any difference to the well known old US army poncho?
Can you see, if it is made in Italy ore somewhere else?
I own 7 different original and falsed NATO Ponchos, but the Defcon 5 Poncho really seems to be the currently most interesting on the market.
I really have to buy it myself.
Unfortunately I am traveling to much around to order it.
I just use the CCE Opex poncho, because I am very often in southern France, where it blends in very well. But some points I don't like at it.
That isn't constructed really old school.
And in Germany the large bright grey stripes in the CCE pattern are really a problem. I always expect that somebody will wake me up in the morning, because he wants to feed this zebra.
I would recommend the Opex poncho only to French people, because in southern France it is invisible in the woods. Far better than all the other civil products, but unfortunately not perfect.
Aah, Eeh, Iih, Ooh, Uuh!
Throw it on the electronic kitchen scales please or put it on the post or vegetable balance next door!
Exact measures?
200cm x 168cm? Is that correct?
Snaps around?
In both directions like the old NATO ponchos or only one direction?
Can you fold it to a bivvy bag, close it with the snaps, and do you fit in there comfortably with your Sleeping bag?
Could you attach a second one to make a two persons A-frame shelter? 200 cm long, 168cm each upper side of the triangle, round about 120 cm high from the ground to the tip?
8 eyelets, how it should be? One in every corner and one in every middle of the edges?
Inner diameter of the eyelets?
Is the hole in it large enough to fit over the hood of a normal parka? Is the hood large enough to wear a military helmet or thick winter hat under it?
Is that 100% a well known original old school NATO poncho, only far lighter, or is there any difference to the well known old US army poncho?
Can you see, if it is made in Italy ore somewhere else?
I own 7 different original and falsed NATO Ponchos, but the Defcon 5 Poncho really seems to be the currently most interesting on the market.
I really have to buy it myself.
Unfortunately I am traveling to much around to order it.
I just use the CCE Opex poncho, because I am very often in southern France, where it blends in very well. But some points I don't like at it.
That isn't constructed really old school.
And in Germany the large bright grey stripes in the CCE pattern are really a problem. I always expect that somebody will wake me up in the morning, because he wants to feed this zebra.
I would recommend the Opex poncho only to French people, because in southern France it is invisible in the woods. Far better than all the other civil products, but unfortunately not perfect.
Last edited:
Not wanting to shamelessly self promote but I'm giving a TW poncho hammock tarp away on my YT channel, you are welcome to enter the draw mate.
Aah! Oh!
Aah, Eeh, Iih, Ooh, Uuh!
Throw it on the electronic kitchen scales please or put it on the post or vegetable balance next door! 418g in the stuff sack, 402g
Exact measures?
200cm x 168cm? Is that correct? Yes
Snaps around? Yes
In both directions like the old NATO ponchos or only one direction? Just one direction
Can you fold it to a bivvy bag, close it with the snaps, and do you fit in there comfortably with your Sleeping bag? It won’t snap into a bivi as the snaps are wrong orientation
Could you attach a second one to make a two persons A-frame shelter? 200 cm long, 168cm each upper side of the triangle, round about 120 cm high from the ground to the tip? two would snap together to give a 4m x 1.68m sheet
8 eyelets, how it should be? One in every corner and one in every middle of the edges? Yes
Inner diameter of the eyelets? 15mm
Is the hole in it large enough to fit over the hood of a normal parka? Yes
Is the hood large enough to wear a military helmet or thick winter hat under it? Not sure about a helmet but definitely a thick hat
Is that 100% a well known original old school NATO poncho, only far lighter, or is there any difference to the well known old US army poncho? Not sure
Can you see, if it is made in Italy ore somewhere else? As label
I own 7 different original and falsed NATO Ponchos, but the Defcon 5 Poncho really seems to be the currently most interesting on the market.
I really have to buy it myself.
Unfortunately I am traveling to much around to order it.
I just use the CCE Opex poncho, because I am very often in southern France, where it blends in very well. But some points I don't like at it.
That isn't constructed really old school.
And in Germany the large bright grey stripes in the CCE pattern are really a problem. I always expect that somebody will wake me up in the morning, because he wants to feed this zebra.
I would recommend the Opex poncho only to French people, because in southern France it is invisible in the woods. Far better than all the other civil products, but unfortunately not perfect.
Thank you very much for the answers!
So, it is nearly a lighter version of the US Army poncho.
LETS SAY IT IS CURRENTLY THE ONLY ULTRALIGHT ORIGINAL OLD SCHOOL NATO PONCHO.
I don't know the exact measures of the US poncho, but the Bundeswehr poncho was 210cm x 165cm. I guess every old NATO poncho had this measures, only the Dutch was a bit larger, if I am informed right.
They made it a bit longer at the arms, each side 1,5 cm. That is good. It covers the arms better than the old one. And used as lean to shelter the additional 3 cm are helpfull too.
They shortend the poncho 10cm.
Italians are small.
They preferred the ability to move over the perfect cover if the soldier sleeps under it.
That is an emergency shelter and it is no problem to fold the legs a bit if one sleeps in hot conditions without bivvy bag under a tarp in a summer rain.
Summer rain doesn't make ill in italy.
In normal British weather the bivvy bag becomes whet at the feet. That is absolutely no problem.
Because now a days every soldier (and every well equipped civil bushcrafter) has a bivvy bag made from a breathing fabric, they changed the snaps.
The old very tough NATO snaps had been very heavy. They decided to keep the poncho as light as possible.
It is still large enough to be used as a bivvy bag, even if there are no double orientated snaps. It is wide enough to fold it.
(All the other currently produced ponchos I know are to tight to be used as a bivvy bag.)
And experienced persons could do that. Tall persons surely would have to protect the head a bit. The emergency bivvy would become a but short, especially if used with sleeping bag.
But of course: Why should I loose my bivvy bag?
I find it important to have this back up option.
To have a second bivvy bag could be life saving. But should I carry heavy snaps around for a situation, that never will happen, if I watch it realistic? My answer is NO!
As a back up bivvy bag it's good enough without the old Nato snaps from the pre Goretex age.
The bivvy bag function of a non breathing (?) poncho doesn't really interest any more.
(Or does the fabric breath? Possible, but I guess, only PU waterproofed fabrics can be made breathable. This poncho is water proofed with silicone. The reason, why it is so light but tough!)
402g Defcon 5 poncho
+ 340g Snugpack Special Forces bivvy bag
-----------
742g
That is in between the weights of the different old green NATO ponchos alone, which had been between 600g and 800g !
Helmet I don't use. In Germany we don't have coconuts in the forest. That it fits over the Parka's hood is perfect!
That thing can be used in winter times too!
(Most cheap military stile ponchos don't fit over winter parkas, you can't get through the hole with them.)
So, in my opinion that thing is perfect!
Off course it is water tight and tough enough.
It has a NATO stock number!
What is tested by the Italian army should be OK, isn't it?
I guess you made a fault with the size of the two ponchos shelter, if two ponchos are snapped together to a larger tarp, isn't it?
That should become 2m x 3,36m !!!
Am I right???
Ladies and Gentlemen, that's large enough for two persons who use additional bivvy bags!
Fantastic!
We got the replacement for the lightweight US Army poncho! And it became even far lighter! The Defcon 5 Poncho is round about 1/3 lighter than the American camouflage poncho.
So, parliamo italiano:
VIVA ITALIA !!!
So, it is nearly a lighter version of the US Army poncho.
LETS SAY IT IS CURRENTLY THE ONLY ULTRALIGHT ORIGINAL OLD SCHOOL NATO PONCHO.
I don't know the exact measures of the US poncho, but the Bundeswehr poncho was 210cm x 165cm. I guess every old NATO poncho had this measures, only the Dutch was a bit larger, if I am informed right.
They made it a bit longer at the arms, each side 1,5 cm. That is good. It covers the arms better than the old one. And used as lean to shelter the additional 3 cm are helpfull too.
They shortend the poncho 10cm.
Italians are small.
They preferred the ability to move over the perfect cover if the soldier sleeps under it.
That is an emergency shelter and it is no problem to fold the legs a bit if one sleeps in hot conditions without bivvy bag under a tarp in a summer rain.
Summer rain doesn't make ill in italy.
In normal British weather the bivvy bag becomes whet at the feet. That is absolutely no problem.
Because now a days every soldier (and every well equipped civil bushcrafter) has a bivvy bag made from a breathing fabric, they changed the snaps.
The old very tough NATO snaps had been very heavy. They decided to keep the poncho as light as possible.
It is still large enough to be used as a bivvy bag, even if there are no double orientated snaps. It is wide enough to fold it.
(All the other currently produced ponchos I know are to tight to be used as a bivvy bag.)
And experienced persons could do that. Tall persons surely would have to protect the head a bit. The emergency bivvy would become a but short, especially if used with sleeping bag.
But of course: Why should I loose my bivvy bag?
I find it important to have this back up option.
To have a second bivvy bag could be life saving. But should I carry heavy snaps around for a situation, that never will happen, if I watch it realistic? My answer is NO!
As a back up bivvy bag it's good enough without the old Nato snaps from the pre Goretex age.
The bivvy bag function of a non breathing (?) poncho doesn't really interest any more.
(Or does the fabric breath? Possible, but I guess, only PU waterproofed fabrics can be made breathable. This poncho is water proofed with silicone. The reason, why it is so light but tough!)
402g Defcon 5 poncho
+ 340g Snugpack Special Forces bivvy bag
-----------
742g
That is in between the weights of the different old green NATO ponchos alone, which had been between 600g and 800g !
Helmet I don't use. In Germany we don't have coconuts in the forest. That it fits over the Parka's hood is perfect!
That thing can be used in winter times too!
(Most cheap military stile ponchos don't fit over winter parkas, you can't get through the hole with them.)
So, in my opinion that thing is perfect!
Off course it is water tight and tough enough.
It has a NATO stock number!
What is tested by the Italian army should be OK, isn't it?
I guess you made a fault with the size of the two ponchos shelter, if two ponchos are snapped together to a larger tarp, isn't it?
That should become 2m x 3,36m !!!
Am I right???
Ladies and Gentlemen, that's large enough for two persons who use additional bivvy bags!
Fantastic!
We got the replacement for the lightweight US Army poncho! And it became even far lighter! The Defcon 5 Poncho is round about 1/3 lighter than the American camouflage poncho.
So, parliamo italiano:
VIVA ITALIA !!!
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Got it from Holland https://www.backpackspullen.nl/defcon5-poncho-camouflage-vegetato-italiano.html
If one really should miss the double direction orientated old nato snaps:
Every cutter every corner in every town can attach you Velcro fasteners to the fabric.
After this you have to seal the seams with a SILICONE seam sealer. You can get it in every good outdoor shop in a small tube for round about 5 £.
"SilNet" is such a product for example.
That would be perhaps an interesting option for those, who want to go in summer times with the ultra extraordinary ultra light equipment.
Yes, radical bushcrafters can go far lighter than the lightest ultra light trekking freaks.
;0)
We call it "survival training".
But attention!
200 cm is a bit short as a bivvy bag. Usually sleeping bags for people with clothing size XL are 220 cm long. So that would be more an option for dwarfs.
And if you sleep in a non breathing poncho, you have to sleep on the left half for example of the open poncho. The other half has to be folded to a quarter, to avoid, that the first rain drops will fall on the inner side.
The face must be open to the sky. And with the first rain drops that fall on your face and wake you up, you close immediately the poncho to a bivvy bag, a bit overlapping at the edges of course and folded down, that the rain can float to the earth.
So, should the rain come during the night after your first four hours sleep, you collect the condensation moisture only the next four hours and not the double amount of eight hours!
Sleeping in a non breathing poncho means to get condensation problems!
If it's summer time that isn't the biggest problem in the world, but in cold conditions the insulation stuff is relatively whet in the morning, when the deepest temperatures of the night are reached!
That means: Sleeping eight hours in a closed poncho in cold conditions is everything else than comfortable!
But better than becoming totally whet in heavy rain, of course!
I recommend to buy the oliv green Snugpak Special Forces bivvy bag!
It's small like an apple if packed alone, only 340g light and I let it always around my sleeping bag (Snugpack Special Forces 1). Both together I store and carry around without the compression bag in an olive green 7 litre Ortlieb ultra light dry bag. Of course the entrance of the water tight bivvy bag we have to stuff in the dry bag in the end, if not, we wouldn't get it in.
I store this dry bag in the highest point of my simple ruck sack, which I use during the night as a pillow. So I am very fast ready to sleep in the evening and very fast ready to go in the morning.
And it is as good as impossible to steal something from me during the night.
I put the German army folding sleeping mat (425g, 10 € used) under the bivvy bag to protect it against dirt and getting holes. The side I fold in at first is the ground side. On the upper side I wrote my name with a black Edding to make it easyer to decide which side is where. After I cleaned it a bit in the morning by pulling it over grass or other plants, I fold the rest of dirt into this mat. My 34 litres rucksack, where it easily fits in, stays clean.
The Defcon 5 poncho as additional small tarp (tensioned with high quality ultra light 2mm diameter lines) and the world is fine!
If we construct a classic lean to poncho shelter to protect us against wind and weather, a small fire in front of the open side will heat the protected room very comfortable, especially if we closed the sides with something we found in the bush, or construct it between rocks, trees or bushes.
That's the old way how it was done in the times, before videos from people who live in different climatic conditions floated an in this times not jet existing internet.
Lean to poncho shelter, bivvy bag and small hard wood (!) fire in front of that combination during the night, stored fire wood next to the head, some stones between us and the fire to avoid to roll into it, is the very old school proper way to sleep in central and northern European cold conditions!
That is the proper way to do it.
It is simply a trough, and very different to the videos you can find in the internet, which are made to sell you some thing.
If you count it well together, you will see, that this isn't only an ultralight solution.
It is an ultra cheap solution too!
LESS IS MORE.
Good night every body!
Every cutter every corner in every town can attach you Velcro fasteners to the fabric.
After this you have to seal the seams with a SILICONE seam sealer. You can get it in every good outdoor shop in a small tube for round about 5 £.
"SilNet" is such a product for example.
That would be perhaps an interesting option for those, who want to go in summer times with the ultra extraordinary ultra light equipment.
Yes, radical bushcrafters can go far lighter than the lightest ultra light trekking freaks.
;0)
We call it "survival training".
But attention!
200 cm is a bit short as a bivvy bag. Usually sleeping bags for people with clothing size XL are 220 cm long. So that would be more an option for dwarfs.
And if you sleep in a non breathing poncho, you have to sleep on the left half for example of the open poncho. The other half has to be folded to a quarter, to avoid, that the first rain drops will fall on the inner side.
The face must be open to the sky. And with the first rain drops that fall on your face and wake you up, you close immediately the poncho to a bivvy bag, a bit overlapping at the edges of course and folded down, that the rain can float to the earth.
So, should the rain come during the night after your first four hours sleep, you collect the condensation moisture only the next four hours and not the double amount of eight hours!
Sleeping in a non breathing poncho means to get condensation problems!
If it's summer time that isn't the biggest problem in the world, but in cold conditions the insulation stuff is relatively whet in the morning, when the deepest temperatures of the night are reached!
That means: Sleeping eight hours in a closed poncho in cold conditions is everything else than comfortable!
But better than becoming totally whet in heavy rain, of course!
I recommend to buy the oliv green Snugpak Special Forces bivvy bag!
It's small like an apple if packed alone, only 340g light and I let it always around my sleeping bag (Snugpack Special Forces 1). Both together I store and carry around without the compression bag in an olive green 7 litre Ortlieb ultra light dry bag. Of course the entrance of the water tight bivvy bag we have to stuff in the dry bag in the end, if not, we wouldn't get it in.
I store this dry bag in the highest point of my simple ruck sack, which I use during the night as a pillow. So I am very fast ready to sleep in the evening and very fast ready to go in the morning.
And it is as good as impossible to steal something from me during the night.
I put the German army folding sleeping mat (425g, 10 € used) under the bivvy bag to protect it against dirt and getting holes. The side I fold in at first is the ground side. On the upper side I wrote my name with a black Edding to make it easyer to decide which side is where. After I cleaned it a bit in the morning by pulling it over grass or other plants, I fold the rest of dirt into this mat. My 34 litres rucksack, where it easily fits in, stays clean.
The Defcon 5 poncho as additional small tarp (tensioned with high quality ultra light 2mm diameter lines) and the world is fine!
If we construct a classic lean to poncho shelter to protect us against wind and weather, a small fire in front of the open side will heat the protected room very comfortable, especially if we closed the sides with something we found in the bush, or construct it between rocks, trees or bushes.
That's the old way how it was done in the times, before videos from people who live in different climatic conditions floated an in this times not jet existing internet.
Lean to poncho shelter, bivvy bag and small hard wood (!) fire in front of that combination during the night, stored fire wood next to the head, some stones between us and the fire to avoid to roll into it, is the very old school proper way to sleep in central and northern European cold conditions!
That is the proper way to do it.
It is simply a trough, and very different to the videos you can find in the internet, which are made to sell you some thing.
If you count it well together, you will see, that this isn't only an ultralight solution.
It is an ultra cheap solution too!
LESS IS MORE.
Good night every body!
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Yes there are, bit of a lottery on quality I’d guess but my minimal experience of AliExpress so far has been positive.
The point is, that most fabrics like that are 150 cm wide at the roll.
If they make a well constructed poncho from it (doesn't matter if good or bad quality) it usually becomes 145 cm wide.
And the result is, that this rain ponchos do not cover the arms of adult men!
I don't want a poncho, that covers my arms only untill the elbows!
I don't want to become ill in cold conditions!
I am not a dwarf.
Most ponchos now a days are made for children, dwarfs and summer hikers!
Perhaps OK for tropical conditions, but not for all season use in central and northern Europe!
The Defcon 5 Poncho is the only available exception I know. That's made for adult people, that's serious all weather equipment!
Alternativ I know only older and heavier original NATO ponchos. ORIGINAL NATO STUFF.
That's the point!
If they make a well constructed poncho from it (doesn't matter if good or bad quality) it usually becomes 145 cm wide.
And the result is, that this rain ponchos do not cover the arms of adult men!
I don't want a poncho, that covers my arms only untill the elbows!
I don't want to become ill in cold conditions!
I am not a dwarf.
Most ponchos now a days are made for children, dwarfs and summer hikers!
Perhaps OK for tropical conditions, but not for all season use in central and northern Europe!
The Defcon 5 Poncho is the only available exception I know. That's made for adult people, that's serious all weather equipment!
Alternativ I know only older and heavier original NATO ponchos. ORIGINAL NATO STUFF.
That's the point!
