Pollarding an apple tree.

[Janne]

I had a neighbour in Sweden that had over 100 varieties of apples grafted on one tree. World record at that time. It was the most wondrous tree in flowering time.

If you plan to pollard, can you graft at the same time?

I miss real apples. Katja, Ingrid Marie and Transparent Blanche are what I miss most.

 

[crosslandkelly]

I miss real apples. Katja, Ingrid Marie and Transparent Blanche are what I miss most.

Which varieties do you have in the Caymans?

 

[Janne]

Jamaican Apple ( Otaheite apple) which has nothing to do with an apple.
Then we have another Jamaican Apple called Apple(ton Rum)

Of that sort, the variety called 'Joy' is specially delicious!

Apples in supermarkets here:
The imported crap that has been waxed, preserved, shipped across the World and is dry/floury, tasteless and has a peel the thickness of Bull's hide.
( You know, the Red and Yellow Delicious ( oxymoron0 and the other modern standard ones.

Now and for maybe 2 months, we get a tiny, very tasty apple, a mix of a Crab apple and a dessert Apple, which is eatable and enjoyable. The size of a golf ball, but with a prize tag that makes your eyes water.....

 

[Robson Valley]

Without knowing for sure, I suspect that it never gets cold enough in the Caymans for "vernalization."
A biochemical change in the buds which induces flowering. Sure, apple trees will grow well but
without the cold treatment, never flower = no fruit. No apples in the tropics. Botanical fact.

 

[Broch]

Mmmm… facts ain't what they used to be

http://www.kuffelcreek.com/tropics.htm

and

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/tropical-apple-trees-61173.html

 

[crosslandkelly]

I love that there is always the exeption to the rule.

 

[Janne]

A friend, a Danish horticulturist that has a huge plant school here, tried with apple trees from northern Florida. Failed.

I suspect that the African growing area is in the mountains. Remember, there is snow on several mountains in Africa!

Apples are a fantastic fruit. I hope the pollarding is successful!

 

[Toddy]

I didn't know that they needed so many chill hours in order to bloom
Interesting, and I learned something new
Thank you

 

[Robson Valley]

Of the hundreds and hundreds of apple varieties, now there are 3(?) exceptions that are low-chill, as they call it.
Apples are a temperate zone crop. Vernalization is the broad rule to follow.

True, Africa has peaks like Kilimanjaro. Coffee species are native to the mountains of Ethiopia.
I use 4 different varieties of apples, depends upon what I want to make.
We would not see any apples at all if it were not for the Silk Road.

 

[Janne]

Yes, all the way from Kazakstan, if my memory is correct.

 

[Toddy]

We have organic remains of apples, here, in the UK, reliably dated to our neolithic.....four and a half thousand years ago is the one I have personally seen.....and there was no 'silk' then. Silk development was around the time that ancient apple I saw grew, and the silk road really only developed as a trade route in the first millenium BC.
Apples were well established right around the Mediterranean, Europe, and the Atlantic Islands long before then.

We know that the apples that we now think of as 'apples' not the wilding/crabs, came from the Caucasus mountains and spread through the middle east.
An apple is really a portable seedcase. Folks carried them as they travelled, and the core and pips are thrown away, and before long there are apples along every route that people walked and rode.

The UK is really rich in apple varieties, literally thousands, and Apple Day (21st October) brings together folks the length and breadth of the country to enjoy that diversity, and to encourage the propagation of varieties.

 

[Janne]

Grafting is usually done on branches, I wonder if it is possible to graft further down on the bole of the mature tree?

That could be one way. First graft further down, then when they take and grow cut the tree off above the graftings.

 

[Robson Valley]

Grafting can be done further down the bole of the tree. The usual concept is to match the cambium layers.
Consequently, the risk of mismatch is much greater.
You're always far better off to be doing the grafts as smaller twigs needing less water and nutrient demands.
Maybe later, cut off the overarching tops.

My grandparents had a back yard apple tree with 6 different varieties. Most tree nurseries had them in stock.

Here is a link to the revised history of apples, right down to the exact origin and the genetic drift in distribution.
http://popular-archaeology.com/issu...ng-two-way-journey-for-apple-on-the-silk-roadhttp://popular-archaeology.com/issu...ng-two-way-journey-for-apple-on-the-silk-road

 

[Janne]

I think it travelled along an ancient route that was later named the Silk Route. People have always selected the easiest paths, so the ( later named) Silk Route must have been used for tens of thousands of years.
The route chosen was easy on the legs, had good foraging and enough water holes.
Maybe Oetzi was using a well travelled road North/South when he was ambushed.

Britain has a very wide Apple variety spectrum. Best I have ever tasted.
Buy local, British people, or you end up with the' Delicious' curse!

 

[Robson Valley]

Comparative DNA analysis has uncovered the origin of apples. I posted a link to the science news.
Further, it explains the bi-directional spread of apples along the Silk Road.
The Silk Road is a modern name for a trade route millenia older than any name.
Silk cloth samples from European paleo burial mounds certainly point this out.

Modern apple genetics in western North America has created several top quality new varieties such as Honey Crisp.
Each is not without its disappointments so you need to pick and choose which variety you need.
The variety you pick controls the sugar, acid, taste and water content of your baking.

 

[Janne]

So if he pollards the tree, but want to move the branches, it is possible, as long as the Cambium is matched up/

If that was my tree, I would get very excited!

( Honey Crisp? Nah. Egremont Russet!)

 

[Robson Valley]

I think most people would like the Honey Crisp as a table apple.
Not too sweet and doesn't brown very quickly.
However it mushes down too far and is very wet to bake in any sort of pastries.
A good dry and tart baker is the Granny Smith in my kitchen. Cooked, a strong apple taste.
They run through my peeler/slicer/corer very quickly.

Pollarding: Can you save a lot of the younger twigs for some grafting experiments on other trees?
I would even try to start some cuttings to root in wet sand. Just experiements that can look after themselves.
Grape vines are super-easy to root.

 

[Toddy]

Totally O.T.
Apologies to the OP.

The Silk Road is a modern name for a trade route millenia older than any name.
Silk cloth samples from European paleo burial mounds certainly point this out.
/QUOTE]

Paleolithic ends about 15,000 bce in Europe.....what silk samples ? and what graves ?
The Chinese give their dates for the discovery/development of silk to the Yangshao culture, which is around 4,000 bce,
and as far as I'm aware no one else claims to be the originators.

We do have silk in at least one Viking burial mound, but that's only a little over a thousand years ago and they'd just come out of the Iron Age.

M

 

[Janne]

OT:
It seems that widespread trading is being pushed back further and further. I believe that the human intellect is unchanged from the very early beginning of H. Sapiens existence , the adventure streak and ‘need’ for imported luxury goods go back to the same time.

Apples are not only very tasty and a reliable cold weather fruit, it transports and stores well, during travels too.

To my knowledge, the varieties are ( were) the most numerous on the British Isles.
I planted a small orchard on my last house in UK. From the earliest variety, Transparante B ( Russian Apple) to a late winter apple.
Moved before I tasted the fruit unfortunately.

 

[Robson Valley]

The stone age ended here about 3 centuries ago. Much of it is alive and well in this day and time.
European contact has not been able to kill it off, no matter how hard they have tried.
There is an apple native to the Pacific Northwest, Malus pacifica. Very small but good taste.
When YVR was undergoing a massive expansion in the mid 1990's, the land was inspected, almost shoulder-to-shoulder.
Much to everyone's amazement, a whole grove of M. pacifica was found, with the trees planted in rows!
They dug it all up and moved it all.

My neighbor just about pollarded his apple trees last spring. They looked pretty strange until they leaved out.
He got a respectable crop, thinned so he didn't get a box of golf balls.

Black peppercorns were well known to the rich, coming along the Silk Road.
Then in the 13th(?) century, Marco Polo and his Dad spent 25 years or so, hiking around Asia.
Upon his return to Europe, he described exactly where the spices (Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Cloves & Black pepper)
were coming from.