poisonous hobo stove?

[shiki_no_uta]

I have made several hobo stoves out of regular tin cans, the last of them way too complicated.
Once it was ready, after the first burn, i became suspicious about the materials the cans were made of, as i could clearly see how some thin layer burnt off from the inside of them.

I made some research about the metals used in the alloys in tin cans, and what happens to them when they get hot.
For example, when aluminium reaches 60 C it kind of disolves in food (if you would be cooking with an aluminium pot), it also
reacts with acidic foods, and so on...
Metals such as tungsten, arsenic, beryllium, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, copper, iron, lead, manganese, nickel, silver, tin,
and zinc when heated enough, release fumes in the air. A fact that is of great concern for the welding workers all over.

I have tried really hard to find out at which temperatures this fumes start to be released, without luck so far.
I also have tried to find out if the release of the fumes during welding is caused by some chemical reaction with the chemicals that are used to avoid rust in the process. No luck.


Has anybody any guidelines about this?
Which material would be less poisonous to use for a hobo stove, stainess steel or some kind of tin can?

thanks a lot for any help

i didnt look in the forum for quite long, so if the subject has been treated already, sorry.

 

[Nice65]

There is a similar scare situation going on in the e-cig world regarding Nickel coils. Temperatures will vary according to the burning points of the metal, hence Nickel coils in an e-cig can never really get hot enough to vaporise the metal. Turning metal into gas and oxide is no easy feat.

Not suggesting you're scaremongering of course, and a hot stove is more likely to cause vaporisation than a wire coil surrounded by a soaked wick.

 

[mountainm]

Some cans have a thin plastic lining.

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[Macaroon]

I've always used stainless steel canisters bought in charity shops as billy cans and to make hobo and gasifier stoves; I know it's wise to be careful with hot metals that may have had treatments like the linings mentioned above but food grade stainless is surely safe at the temperatures we are talking here; what are your (and most others) pots and pans at home made of? and all those restaraunts you eat at?

And in any case, as long as you have food or liquids in or on your stove almost all the heat will be transfered to that, eh? The only time I can see where this might be a worry is if you loaded a metal stove with fuel and got a crazy amount of heat building up in it, or an empty billy atop a very hot fire or stove. I really don't see it as a significant problem at all if you stick to stainless steel or ally.

 

[Laurentius]

I have made several hobo stoves out of regular tin cans, the last of them way too complicated.
Once it was ready, after the first burn, i became suspicious about the materials the cans were made of, as i could clearly see how some thin layer burnt off from the inside of them.

I made some research about the metals used in the alloys in tin cans, and what happens to them when they get hot.
For example, when aluminium reaches 60 C it kind of disolves in food (if you would be cooking with an aluminium pot), it also
reacts with acidic foods, and so on...
Metals such as tungsten, arsenic, beryllium, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, copper, iron, lead, manganese, nickel, silver, tin,
and zinc when heated enough, release fumes in the air. A fact that is of great concern for the welding workers all over.

I have tried really hard to find out at which temperatures this fumes start to be released, without luck so far.
I also have tried to find out if the release of the fumes during welding is caused by some chemical reaction with the chemicals that are used to avoid rust in the process. No luck.


Has anybody any guidelines about this?
Which material would be less poisonous to use for a hobo stove, stainess steel or some kind of tin can?

thanks a lot for any help

i didnt look in the forum for quite long, so if the subject has been treated already, sorry.

Once upon a very long time ago, when I moved into a 1950's council flat, I was provided with the 1950's standard washing equipment as part of the inventory which was to whit a spin dryer (remember those) and a gas copper. The gas copper was in fact a galvanised copper with a burner underneath and about as primitive as you could get. You connected it to the gas tap with a rubber tube and lit the blue touch paper as it were. I can recall that it stank to high heaven of what I can now only presume was zinc fumes whenever I lit it up. Those were the days eh?

 

[shiki_no_uta]

I've always used stainless steel canisters bought in charity shops as billy cans and to make hobo and gasifier stoves; I know it's wise to be careful with hot metals that may have had treatments like the linings mentioned above but food grade stainless is surely safe at the temperatures we are talking here; what are your (and most others) pots and pans at home made of? and all those restaraunts you eat at?

And in any case, as long as you have food or liquids in or on your stove almost all the heat will be transfered to that, eh? The only time I can see where this might be a worry is if you loaded a metal stove with fuel and got a crazy amount of heat building up in it, or an empty billy atop a very hot fire or stove. I really don't see it as a significant problem at all if you stick to stainless steel or ally.

I found out that stainless steel usually has chromium and nickel. During welding "hexavalent chromium" fumes are released. I have also read in some health webpages that because of the nickel content, you are not supoused to cook very acid foods in stainless steel pots, or keep using them once they are scratched or have had any kind of important impact.

The idea of being careful so it doesnt get too hot makes a lot of sense.

 

[Macaroon]

I found out that stainless steel usually has chromium and nickel. During welding "hexavalent chromium" fumes are released. I have also read in some health webpages that because of the nickel content, you are not supoused to cook very acid foods in stainless steel pots, or keep using them once they are scratched or have had any kind of important impact.

The idea of being careful so it doesnt get too hot makes a lot of sense.

I couldn't get a stove to anywhere near the temperatures involved in welding without actually setting out to do so in a furnace or by actual welding; and you'd have to be pretty heavy handed to scratch a ss pot up enough for it to be a problem, no?.

 

[shiki_no_uta]

I couldn't get a stove to anywhere near the temperatures involved in welding without actually setting out to do so in a furnace or by actual welding; and you'd have to be pretty heavy handed to scratch a ss pot up enough for it to be a problem, no?.

Good reasoning Macaroon.
Lets say i make a hobo stove with a broken ss water boiler i found. I guess even if it would get glowing red, it wouldnt be close enough to welding temperatures. Is that what you mean? That would relieve my concern about chromium.

What about nickel? Does anyone know anything about it?

 

[Macaroon]

That's it precisely, and I consider nickel to be food safe as well, as long as it's used under normal cooking temperatures; consider all the nickel cooking utensils and cutlery that's still in common use. I have and still use family cutlery that was electro plated nickel silver but the silver is long gone from a lot of it and as far as I know it's never done me any harm.

Some people do have a sensitivity to nickel, but you'd surely have found that out by this stage in your life.

 

[Nomad64]

I found out that stainless steel usually has chromium and nickel. During welding "hexavalent chromium" fumes are released. I have also read in some health webpages that because of the nickel content, you are not supoused to cook very acid foods in stainless steel pots, or keep using them once they are scratched or have had any kind of important impact.

The idea of being careful so it doesnt get too hot makes a lot of sense.

Nothing wrong with being careful but at least as far as the stainless steel is concerned, I do feel that you are seriously "overthinking" this not least because the smoke from whatever you are burning in your stove is likely to be more noxious than anything coming from the the stove itself!

Below are links to a couple of pages the British Stainless Steel Associations website covering the potential risks of hexavalent chromium both in normal use and welding. No mention of nickel.

The simple answer is that; "The chromium in solid stainless steels should not be regarded as a health hazard" and that even if somehow your hobo stove could miraculously achieve temperatures close to those involved in welding or plasma cutting, there is no evidence that the fumes released cause lung cancer - although it does acknowledge that welders as a group do have statistically slightly higher rates of lung cancer than the population as a whole.

http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=112

http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=93

My (admittedly unscientific) take on this is that if you plan to run your stove at close to the melting point of stainless steel (1400 degrees C), for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year for 30 plus years in a poorly ventilated space then (despite the lack of any proven connection), you could conceivably increase your risk of getting lung cancer.

In the real world, using a hobo stove at the temperatures you are realistically going achieve, on an occasional basis in the great outdoors is hardly likely to be hazardous.

 

[Far_Wanderer]

I'm a timed served welder and from what I remember using s/s for a stove wouldn't be a problem as your not getting the temperatures required to do anything that would cause a health risk and if you where I'd be more worried about what you're using in the stove to achieve these temperatures.
Tin cans are another matter as they line them with all sorts of things.
If anything it would be the first burn that would cause problems due to any coatings that are put on to stop tarnishing or contamination

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