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Didn't you know that peace and saving lives was always second to war? Afterall, war makes money, peace doesn't...
i had to chuckle when i read about a certain software billionaire giving money to charity too
it made international headlines at the time as the largest donation blah blah blah
a quick calculation of his income versus mine
and it was the equivalent of me donating 30p :yikes:
not a month or a year , but a magnificent one off gesture
sickening really
Tant
it made international headlines at the time as the largest donation blah blah blah
a quick calculation of his income versus mine
and it was the equivalent of me donating 30p :yikes:
not a month or a year , but a magnificent one off gesture
sickening really
Tant
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
At the risk of making this a bit political, why do we in the west seem to feel the need to blame the UK and US governement for doing things or not doing enough etc etc etc after every event that happens in the world.
Is it an ecconomic thing? If so why aren't we including the other nations that are well off? Germany, France, Japan, Canada, Italy, Spain to name but a few....
Is it a political thing? Very vogue to be anti British and anti American right now isn't it....not sure why....maybe somebody here knows....
Is it an ignorant thing? Do we really have the faintest idea which countries are giving what? Or are we allowing ourselves to be lead by the mainstream media....
Is is a masocistic thing? Do we simply enjoy putting our countries down and bad mouthing them.....if so why....
You can say what you like about politics and war budgets but no matter where in the world something bad happens you will ALWAYS find the Brits and the Yanks (along with the other usual suspects) helping out, whether in monetary terms or with rescue teams on the ground and it is always done without any hidden political agenda and without thought for the nationality, race, creed, religion or colour of those unfortunate enough to become victims of Natures great power.
It strikes me that this has nothing to do with what's just happened in Asia and plenty to do with the opportunity to have another little dig at ourselves! I simply don't understand this. I didn't vote Blair and I couldn't vote Bush (being a Brit), I'm not really that interested in Politics, they all seem as bad as each other but I'm still proud to be British and very proud of the good my fellow countrymen and American friends do around the world.
Asking if our governments have given enough to help when they spend so much on war is like opening your christmas presents and then being annoyed with your dad because he only bought you a swiss army knife when you know full well he'll be spending over £200 on drinks at new year and so could have afforded to buy you a woodlore knife! When all the time what you should be thinking is "That's jolly generous of Dad this year...thank you".
So.....for those of you who aren't sure what to make of the reported £100million that is being given to the countries that need our help right now and don't know how to respond to it....let me help you answer that quandry: THANK YOU!!!
Is it an ecconomic thing? If so why aren't we including the other nations that are well off? Germany, France, Japan, Canada, Italy, Spain to name but a few....
Is it a political thing? Very vogue to be anti British and anti American right now isn't it....not sure why....maybe somebody here knows....
Is it an ignorant thing? Do we really have the faintest idea which countries are giving what? Or are we allowing ourselves to be lead by the mainstream media....
Is is a masocistic thing? Do we simply enjoy putting our countries down and bad mouthing them.....if so why....
You can say what you like about politics and war budgets but no matter where in the world something bad happens you will ALWAYS find the Brits and the Yanks (along with the other usual suspects) helping out, whether in monetary terms or with rescue teams on the ground and it is always done without any hidden political agenda and without thought for the nationality, race, creed, religion or colour of those unfortunate enough to become victims of Natures great power.
It strikes me that this has nothing to do with what's just happened in Asia and plenty to do with the opportunity to have another little dig at ourselves! I simply don't understand this. I didn't vote Blair and I couldn't vote Bush (being a Brit), I'm not really that interested in Politics, they all seem as bad as each other but I'm still proud to be British and very proud of the good my fellow countrymen and American friends do around the world.
Asking if our governments have given enough to help when they spend so much on war is like opening your christmas presents and then being annoyed with your dad because he only bought you a swiss army knife when you know full well he'll be spending over £200 on drinks at new year and so could have afforded to buy you a woodlore knife! When all the time what you should be thinking is "That's jolly generous of Dad this year...thank you".
So.....for those of you who aren't sure what to make of the reported £100million that is being given to the countries that need our help right now and don't know how to respond to it....let me help you answer that quandry: THANK YOU!!!
Good points there, I think it's a matter of priorities that people are getting at. It was $35 million that the US Admin have given (after doubling it). Australia Gave $27 Million. USA has a population of 276 Million. Australia has 20 Million, yet their donations aren't that different. I just think that i cannot help feeling like they should have given more, being one of the worlds superpower.
i think the problem here is not who gave what and how much. The problem is that these countries are dirt poor. The US keeps trade tariffs high from the developing world and so do we. I bought a t shirt from tescos for £1.99. How can a t shirt cost less than a pint. Someone somewhere has been exploited to produce it. We all have a collective responsiblity for the worlds ills. We try to do our bit in our own ways and long may it continue.
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
That's an interesting idea Jake.....and I know where you're coming from (what you say makes sence) but I'm just happy that we are giving what we are to these countries....we could ALL give more, every other country could give more...., my point is why was the US and UK singled out for special bitching and moaning....Russia and China have massive populations and spend vast sums on their armies...why aren't they sending more? Switzerland is very very rich...why isn't it sending more money and so the list goes on....I don't want to badmouth Russia, china or Switzerland and use them only as examples.....as I said, we could all do better it's just that whatever the UK and US does it's never enough for some and becomes an opportunity to dig for others!
Wayne, again interesting but a little negative... a pint of beer costs roughly 3p to make.....are we using cheap labour for that? No, it costs over £2 a pint because of the tax and profit on it, ignoring the profit for a moment... that tax you're paying on that pint is quite possibly what's going to Asian as aid....funny old world isn't it!
):
Wayne, again interesting but a little negative... a pint of beer costs roughly 3p to make.....are we using cheap labour for that? No, it costs over £2 a pint because of the tax and profit on it, ignoring the profit for a moment... that tax you're paying on that pint is quite possibly what's going to Asian as aid....funny old world isn't it!
):
i think the percentage of GDP going as aid from the G8 countries is going to be next to nothing. Its hard not to be negative about the level of taxes people are forced to pay and how few people seem to benefit from them.
Its great to be patriotic but that doesn't mean we have to overlook the problems we face. I shall shut up now as i am getting political.
Its great to be patriotic but that doesn't mean we have to overlook the problems we face. I shall shut up now as i am getting political.
Well said Bambodoggy. Some people seem to like moaning for the sake of it. £100 million is a lot of money and that was just the initial aid. I'm sure if the predicted diseases and other potential problems rear their ugly heads we will send more if the countries affected need it. And if you add up the total donated by all the countries I'm sure it will be a substatial initial amount of aid to the poor blighters affected by this terrible disaster. We're hardly going to tell them 'Nope sorry you've had £100 million that's your lot' !! I am sure ther'll be more sent when needed. Not to mention the good people from the red cross and all the other aid organisations, and all the 1000,s of gifts of clothing food, medicines etc from individuals and collections.
A lady in the supermarket que on Christmas eve was moaning loudly to everyone in the que that there wern't enough staff and the poor girl at the checkout got it... How can that poor girl help how busy and what staffing levels the managers choose. I really had to stop myself from telling her to shut up and stop whining. It was Christmas Eve for heavens sake, and she was still in rush around stressed mode.
May I wish you all a slow paced, peaceful, and stress free new year with lots of time for all those Bushcraft projects you've been meaning to do. I finally got round to making a lid for my Crusader mug yesterday so I'm off to a good start and I spent 2 hours sharpening my Axe and knives. They are now very sharp so result there.
Cheers everyone and a happy new year :wave:
A lady in the supermarket que on Christmas eve was moaning loudly to everyone in the que that there wern't enough staff and the poor girl at the checkout got it... How can that poor girl help how busy and what staffing levels the managers choose. I really had to stop myself from telling her to shut up and stop whining. It was Christmas Eve for heavens sake, and she was still in rush around stressed mode.
May I wish you all a slow paced, peaceful, and stress free new year with lots of time for all those Bushcraft projects you've been meaning to do. I finally got round to making a lid for my Crusader mug yesterday so I'm off to a good start and I spent 2 hours sharpening my Axe and knives. They are now very sharp so result there.
Cheers everyone and a happy new year :wave:
I didn't mean to mix up a hornet's next over this. I haven't heard how much other countries are donating, only British and America. They only reason I mentioned it, was because it was so easy (and they seemed eager to) throw money at the current war in Iraq, but they start off with what appears to be a pultry amount to several countries who are in desperate need of support
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
It's not a hornet's nest Mate....it's just a matter of opinion....you may think an initial pledge of £100m as paltry....I don't.....simple as that. We seem to be pretty good at arguing pleasantly and in a friendly way on this forum and I fail to see why this topic should be any different, don't back down if what you've said is what you believe.... 
....I certainly won't be!
£100m doesn't sound that much. Maybe to us in the wonderfully pampered west it isn't a lot but to those who really need it, not to buy the latest DVD release or designer handbag, but to actually eat and shelter from it....then that's an awful lot of initial help.....and as FallingRain points out, it is only an initial pledge and will be followed up with more.
The Iraq question is a very long and complicated one and one I suspect we would be on different sides of too....but it's not a Bushcraft issue and so best left for another time and place my friend
....I certainly won't be!£100m doesn't sound that much. Maybe to us in the wonderfully pampered west it isn't a lot but to those who really need it, not to buy the latest DVD release or designer handbag, but to actually eat and shelter from it....then that's an awful lot of initial help.....and as FallingRain points out, it is only an initial pledge and will be followed up with more.
The Iraq question is a very long and complicated one and one I suspect we would be on different sides of too....but it's not a Bushcraft issue and so best left for another time and place my friend
the lancet caused a big stir in November this year when it estimated the death toll in iraq to be around 98,000
point is i have a choice about how much and to who i give money to in charitable donations
tax on the other hand seems to be not a volountary thing and i have little say in what it is spent on
Tant
point is i have a choice about how much and to who i give money to in charitable donations
tax on the other hand seems to be not a volountary thing and i have little say in what it is spent on
Tant
There are good points on both sides of this. However, don't let the meagar figures tell the entire story. The figures quoted, at least here in the states, do not include donations raised and sent by the citizens. As an example, our little community chapel with just under 200 members has already raised over $100,000.00 and is sending water, food and medicine. I think many other churches and affiliations like the Masons are running national drives for needed items and I am sure that the citizens of many other countries are doing the same.
Whether you feel that your government has been generous of stingy, I suggest that you send your comments to the people that count, for example:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/
bushcraftUK is not really the place for political discussion - it just makes people angry, polarizes viewpoints and distracts from the real focus of the forum. A far better question might be "how can we help these people in need?"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/
bushcraftUK is not really the place for political discussion - it just makes people angry, polarizes viewpoints and distracts from the real focus of the forum. A far better question might be "how can we help these people in need?"
bambodoggy said:
Hmmm, why is there a need of identification. Why being proud of something at all. How would the world be without all the people being proud of something. Being proud to be a christian, being proud to believe in islam, being proud being an american, a communist, a hindu or God forbid a Nazi, maybe one choose to be proud to support manchester united but what about all the other gangs and nations forming up to be proud of something.
Is that not the beginning of all wars. The creation of borders. Maybe someone should have shot the first person building a fence. Wouldn't it be nice if we don't need these kinds of security soothers ?
Next time you sit in the forest take off your cloth and sit naked on a stone and ask yourself: WHO AM I. Don't take the identification soother in your mouth and say I am my job, I am my family, I am a ......
..................
): ): BUSHCRAFTER OFF COURSE ): ): Love
Abbe
I was interested to see the thread about being proud of this country.
Our neighbour, a local councillor, who is also a bit of a manic depressive who self medicates with the odd drop too much alcohol fell down his stairs last night. Whilst we couldnt hear him another neighbour listened to his cries for help all night before telling us at 0930 this morning ( he has already fallen before and broken his pelvis).
We dutifully called the ambulance and plod, who were delighted to hear him tell them to to **** off, which they were happy to do.
I have just lifted the guy, in his 60's, 7 stone dripping wet, into and equally wet and soiled bed, which we changed and covered him up with a quilt and made him a hot drink. He is obviously in pain and has probably redone his pelvis or hip. His toilet is two floors down and plod who most sincerely promised to check on him in a couple of hours at 11am (now 7pm) are nowhere to be seen.
Am I proud to be British??
Our neighbour, a local councillor, who is also a bit of a manic depressive who self medicates with the odd drop too much alcohol fell down his stairs last night. Whilst we couldnt hear him another neighbour listened to his cries for help all night before telling us at 0930 this morning ( he has already fallen before and broken his pelvis).
We dutifully called the ambulance and plod, who were delighted to hear him tell them to to **** off, which they were happy to do.
I have just lifted the guy, in his 60's, 7 stone dripping wet, into and equally wet and soiled bed, which we changed and covered him up with a quilt and made him a hot drink. He is obviously in pain and has probably redone his pelvis or hip. His toilet is two floors down and plod who most sincerely promised to check on him in a couple of hours at 11am (now 7pm) are nowhere to be seen.
Am I proud to be British??
D
deadeye
Guest
the biggest problem in this world is greed MONEYwho cares how much is sent what and for? The main thing is that we are abe to look out and care for everyone and every thing we meet.
I am not a christian/muslim/hindu/buddist (none of the above or any othere)the list of religons goes on and on. but if you read a few of them then i think you would all say that they say ruffly the same thing. Be good to each othere treat them as you wish to be treated.
money and jealousey is whats going to tear this world apart. Both of them alone will bring the beginning of the end.
As for pride we should all have a level of pride PRIDE in OUR SELVES to say we helped / we achieved / not pride to belong to something as ! How can any one be PROUD that they are a sheep? (to follow a team / to follow belife )
We should be proud to be who we are and intren be reckless enough to see some one doing there but best strugeling to offer our help and intrun be proud for them.
if peopl did not care fo money ........and all stood side by side in the world we could live fare happyer life with so much less stress.........
the only religone that could sway me is the strange people in canida /use who live in small self contained towns where bill the wood cutter cuts wood for jack the potato farmer who feeds his friend bill who keeps peter the hunter warm who suppleys meat to jack the potato.
in turn they all have a part and all have pride in what they did for each othere. NO MONEY and NO Wars no greed But all the help and all the lessons you could ever wish for help to learn how to live in peace ......
I am not a christian/muslim/hindu/buddist (none of the above or any othere)the list of religons goes on and on. but if you read a few of them then i think you would all say that they say ruffly the same thing. Be good to each othere treat them as you wish to be treated.
money and jealousey is whats going to tear this world apart. Both of them alone will bring the beginning of the end.
As for pride we should all have a level of pride PRIDE in OUR SELVES to say we helped / we achieved / not pride to belong to something as ! How can any one be PROUD that they are a sheep? (to follow a team / to follow belife )
We should be proud to be who we are and intren be reckless enough to see some one doing there but best strugeling to offer our help and intrun be proud for them.
if peopl did not care fo money ........and all stood side by side in the world we could live fare happyer life with so much less stress.........
the only religone that could sway me is the strange people in canida /use who live in small self contained towns where bill the wood cutter cuts wood for jack the potato farmer who feeds his friend bill who keeps peter the hunter warm who suppleys meat to jack the potato.
in turn they all have a part and all have pride in what they did for each othere. NO MONEY and NO Wars no greed But all the help and all the lessons you could ever wish for help to learn how to live in peace ......
banjo players!deadeye said:the only religone that could sway me is the strange people in canida /use who live in small self contained towns where bill the wood cutter cuts wood for jack the potato farmer who feeds his friend bill who keeps peter the hunter warm who suppleys meat to jack the potato.
in turn they all have a part and all have pride in what they did for each othere. NO MONEY and NO Wars
Living on an island we have that, but it ended up with Queen Victoria bringing people over to root out the incest and interbreeding. A community can only take so many wall eyes, big ears and banjo players!
Squeal Piggy! Squeal!
What gets me is our governments can find millions to send to others countrys year in and year out and not just where there have been disasters ect, but they cannot find enough money to sought out our own back yard.
CLEM said:
Couldn't agree more. My back yard is full of rubbish, a lot of it smells well off, I didn't ask for it to be there but it finds it's way in. I look at the label and it says foreign but no-one takes it back there, yet it costs me a fortune to for the council to let it stay.
If I go out in my back yard and get injured by this trash then the police and the powers that be are more likely to charge me than the depositors and as sure as hell my injury wont be reported in the media, unlike that of a bit of bin bag burst open in the road.
Agh well, perhaps I have just had a bad day.
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