Passaround - Chris Caine Survival Tool
- Thread starter Stew
- Start date
not much of one but had a good look at it
its interesting will move it on mon or tuesday if thats oks
ATB
Duncan
I Didnt have a chance to take the tool out in the woods etc but plenty others have and will on this passaround
So I took it into my workshop to have a close look
first off i like to see what the Design Idea/Spec/reasoning was to help look objectively at an object
so from the Chris Caine site http://chriscainesurvival.com/buy.shtml
Ive worked out which one we have (3 to choose from
its not the
The Standanrd Chris Caine® Survival Tool (spelling as pasted )
its the
The Chris Caine® Survival Tool (Standard Edition)
but not the
The Chris Caine® Survival Tool (Limited Edition)
its the only one that dosnt come with a Sharpening steel Free but one was provided for the pass around
so its a CC (Std) not a Std CC got it
from the Description on the website http://chriscainesurvival.com/tool.shtml
Oks a few things dont match the blurb
well as Red showed the knife is well over 800gms i got 814gms and with the sheath its over 1kg (yes I know it says measurements are approx but that well out )
the 750gms im guessing goes back to this from Lofty Wiseman who Chris worked with for a long time (it does however say no more than )
the blade shape is remarkably similar to the drawing more so than Lofty's own Parang survival tools
the grind is not Convex its a variable hight sabre grind with a secondary bevel both are flat ground tho the grind line has been rubbed over in the finishing and the secondary will be a convex if used with the Steel
the Photo with the Knife doesn't show the Sheath you get it shows the upgrade sheath available separately (£60) i cant see that it comes with the limited one as std
The upgrade sheath seems a nod to the fact the std one is a fairly poorly made job.
for quick comparison I have a Parang here that didnt make the Parang passaround
My own large kukri which I have used for over 10 yrs ( a smaller version for the 10yrs + before that)
plus my Camp knife the XL DNK which really isnt in the is weight catagory but shows the differnce
and my Woody clone again for scale
plus I thought a Small Axe would also be a fair comparison
so ive got my GB carving axe
The felt tip marks have a vertical line on the centre of balance which are ruffly in line
the triangle on the edge marks where i think the main chopping part of the blade is
I have weighed all the blades and also weighed them at the triangle while holding the handle to see what the tip weight is like . this is my own test and i use it to compare blades along with other factors its not that useful an indicator on its own.
the parang and CC tool have long handles so ive taken 2 readings on in a forward hold but not choked onto the blade and one fully back
___________Total_______Tip____ _____Ext Tip
Parang____975gms______500gms__ ___680gms
CC Tool___814gms______335gms_____ 420gms
Kukri______724gms______400gms
XK DNK____390gms______190gms
DWC______176gms
GB Carver__986gms______800gms
the Parang is a big tool and heavy also a lot longer and so more tip weight
the Kukri is under the magic 750gms with similer tip weight to the CC .
The XL DNK is obviously out gunned in this
The GB Axe is smiler weight to the big parang But pretty much all of it is tip weight (as much as the whole CC tool) as you would expect from an axe
remember Force = Mass x Acceleration or the heavier it is and the faster you throw it the harder it hits
They have different profiles which can maximise the use of the Force
The Parang is straight and hits fairly square
The CC Tool has a big Belly curve this should help penetration increasing the efficiency of the cut
The Kukri has a straight edge but it hits at an angle so adding a slicing action
the GB also has a curved edge profile which is actually very smiler the centre portion of the CC tool
the other important factor is the edge geometry
as mentioned the CC has a variable flat sabre grind which oddly is the opposite of what I expect (see the Parang picture earlier)
Ive measured and drawn the profile of the CC tool and the parang which is an interesting comparison considering earlier testers thoughts when using
left is the Parang which has the same profile along its length this is a just over 1/3rd hight convex on a 6.5mm thick blade
the CC tool has a deeper 5mm blade with the 10 deg primary and 40 deg secondary in the chopping area and a 15deg primary and 35 deg secondary on the straight section ( the secondary bevel has changed from factory a little i think it was all 40 deg )
if you over lay them you find the that actually the grinds arnt that far apart the PArang is slightly better in with in the secondary of the CC tool (tho due toe hmeasuring being very small even wit ha Vernier its to close to actually call
with the CC Tool thinner once up the blade a bit
so the CC tool should bite well but may suffer from sticking more
there is plenty of metal there to fettle the edge to what you want the Supplied File certainly helps do this quickly.
For me i would convex the secondary over in the chopping area basically rubbing the shoulder between the 2 grinds off then bring the area close to the handle back to a 25-30 deg secondary slightly con-vexed. this would be something i would expect to do on any knife like this i bought. I was also a massive improvement to the Kukri when i sharpened it properly
moving onto the handle
Wood Scales which have shrunk slightly (as usual in unstabalised wood) is held on with what looks like Loveless bolts but I cant see any sign of threads and the tops are burred Im guessing they are brass cups with a centre riveted pin It also looks like the scales are not glued on (if they are its already failed to the first pin )
Its a long large handle designed for a variety of Grips and holds which in general I like its one of the problems i have with Kukris in general they have too small a handle for me which is why I have a larger pattern one its still not as versatile as the CC Tool handle
the parang handle is very comfy tho the large swell at the back is something I'm not used to so feels a bit odd Tho it definitely stops the blade slipping away and you can use a whole hand width in front of the handle for fwd grip right on the balance point.
back to the CC Tool handle . When i first got it and was holding it ( Like you do with a new sharp ) there was something Odd and not right in the feel .. I first thought it was the belly and bend in the blade dropping the centre of Gravity as it was more noticeable when the blade is twisted up flat it wasn't till i got out my Kukri that I realised it wasn't that as it has a smiler low CofG . it was after looking the shape of the underside of the handle where it hasn't been rounded over and blended fully there's a ridge each side that presses in when you tip it . TH Kukri has an oval Cross-section so no pressure points
you can see it here the rounded part is shiny its a simple job to sand it and reshape
The sheath is a pretty basic job which is fine but is very flimsy thin leather and not really what i would put the knife in
The upgrade version offered on the site seems to be a much better job a shame they dont offer that as std or at least as part of the Limited edition version
either version f for me would need a leg strap tho i rarely carry this sort of tool on the belt
Water drain holes
So all in all Quite Interesting to expand on my previous post
in general I like it and it would defiantly be an asset in a Survival situation the knife is solid and if you get to know it should be very versatile .. the sheath well....... isnt
and i really dont like the steel but would be the best bet in a true survival situation ..
For bushcraft be a little kinder to your blades
oks now you've read all that ( Sorry JonathanD wast happy with my earlier assessment)
here it is mostly again on Vidio so click to waste another 15mins of me rambling on
few mistakes before you start i realised after when I checked
its not the £255 version
i thought it was vertically jig ground but on the CC site it has a picture of free hand grinding
on closer look im not sure if the sheath is machine stitched or not
[video=youtube;86ZkOzhlpCs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86ZkOzhlpCs[/video]
So I took it into my workshop to have a close look
first off i like to see what the Design Idea/Spec/reasoning was to help look objectively at an object
so from the Chris Caine site http://chriscainesurvival.com/buy.shtml
Ive worked out which one we have (3 to choose from
its not the
The Standanrd Chris Caine® Survival Tool (spelling as pasted )
its the
The Chris Caine® Survival Tool (Standard Edition)
but not the
The Chris Caine® Survival Tool (Limited Edition)
its the only one that dosnt come with a Sharpening steel Free but one was provided for the pass around
so its a CC (Std) not a Std CC got it
from the Description on the website http://chriscainesurvival.com/tool.shtml
Oks a few things dont match the blurb
from the above link
yet at just over 750g,
The blade has a convex grind
well as Red showed the knife is well over 800gms i got 814gms and with the sheath its over 1kg (yes I know it says measurements are approx but that well out )
the 750gms im guessing goes back to this from Lofty Wiseman who Chris worked with for a long time (it does however say no more than
)the blade shape is remarkably similar to the drawing more so than Lofty's own Parang survival tools
the grind is not Convex its a variable hight sabre grind with a secondary bevel both are flat ground tho the grind line has been rubbed over in the finishing and the secondary will be a convex if used with the Steel
the Photo with the Knife doesn't show the Sheath you get it shows the upgrade sheath available separately (£60) i cant see that it comes with the limited one as std
The upgrade sheath seems a nod to the fact the std one is a fairly poorly made job.
for quick comparison I have a Parang here that didnt make the Parang passaround
My own large kukri which I have used for over 10 yrs ( a smaller version for the 10yrs + before that)
plus my Camp knife the XL DNK which really isnt in the is weight catagory but shows the differnce
and my Woody clone again for scale
plus I thought a Small Axe would also be a fair comparison
so ive got my GB carving axe
The felt tip marks have a vertical line on the centre of balance which are ruffly in line
the triangle on the edge marks where i think the main chopping part of the blade is
I have weighed all the blades and also weighed them at the triangle while holding the handle to see what the tip weight is like . this is my own test and i use it to compare blades along with other factors its not that useful an indicator on its own.
the parang and CC tool have long handles so ive taken 2 readings on in a forward hold but not choked onto the blade and one fully back
___________Total_______Tip____ _____Ext Tip
Parang____975gms______500gms__ ___680gms
CC Tool___814gms______335gms_____ 420gms
Kukri______724gms______400gms
XK DNK____390gms______190gms
DWC______176gms
GB Carver__986gms______800gms
the Parang is a big tool and heavy also a lot longer and so more tip weight
the Kukri is under the magic 750gms with similer tip weight to the CC .
The XL DNK is obviously out gunned in this
The GB Axe is smiler weight to the big parang But pretty much all of it is tip weight (as much as the whole CC tool) as you would expect from an axe
remember Force = Mass x Acceleration or the heavier it is and the faster you throw it the harder it hits
They have different profiles which can maximise the use of the Force
The Parang is straight and hits fairly square
The CC Tool has a big Belly curve this should help penetration increasing the efficiency of the cut
The Kukri has a straight edge but it hits at an angle so adding a slicing action
the GB also has a curved edge profile which is actually very smiler the centre portion of the CC tool
the other important factor is the edge geometry
as mentioned the CC has a variable flat sabre grind which oddly is the opposite of what I expect (see the Parang picture earlier)
Ive measured and drawn the profile of the CC tool and the parang which is an interesting comparison considering earlier testers thoughts when using
left is the Parang which has the same profile along its length this is a just over 1/3rd hight convex on a 6.5mm thick blade
the CC tool has a deeper 5mm blade with the 10 deg primary and 40 deg secondary in the chopping area and a 15deg primary and 35 deg secondary on the straight section ( the secondary bevel has changed from factory a little i think it was all 40 deg )
if you over lay them you find the that actually the grinds arnt that far apart the PArang is slightly better in with in the secondary of the CC tool (tho due toe hmeasuring being very small even wit ha Vernier its to close to actually call
with the CC Tool thinner once up the blade a bit
so the CC tool should bite well but may suffer from sticking more
there is plenty of metal there to fettle the edge to what you want the Supplied File certainly helps do this quickly.
For me i would convex the secondary over in the chopping area basically rubbing the shoulder between the 2 grinds off then bring the area close to the handle back to a 25-30 deg secondary slightly con-vexed. this would be something i would expect to do on any knife like this i bought. I was also a massive improvement to the Kukri when i sharpened it properly
moving onto the handle
Wood Scales which have shrunk slightly (as usual in unstabalised wood) is held on with what looks like Loveless bolts but I cant see any sign of threads and the tops are burred Im guessing they are brass cups with a centre riveted pin It also looks like the scales are not glued on (if they are its already failed to the first pin )
Its a long large handle designed for a variety of Grips and holds which in general I like its one of the problems i have with Kukris in general they have too small a handle for me which is why I have a larger pattern one its still not as versatile as the CC Tool handle
the parang handle is very comfy tho the large swell at the back is something I'm not used to so feels a bit odd Tho it definitely stops the blade slipping away and you can use a whole hand width in front of the handle for fwd grip right on the balance point.
back to the CC Tool handle . When i first got it and was holding it ( Like you do with a new sharp
) there was something Odd and not right in the feel .. I first thought it was the belly and bend in the blade dropping the centre of Gravity as it was more noticeable when the blade is twisted up flat it wasn't till i got out my Kukri that I realised it wasn't that as it has a smiler low CofG . it was after looking the shape of the underside of the handle where it hasn't been rounded over and blended fully there's a ridge each side that presses in when you tip it . TH Kukri has an oval Cross-section so no pressure points
you can see it here the rounded part is shiny its a simple job to sand it and reshape
The sheath is a pretty basic job which is fine but is very flimsy thin leather and not really what i would put the knife in
The upgrade version offered on the site seems to be a much better job a shame they dont offer that as std or at least as part of the Limited edition version
either version f for me would need a leg strap tho i rarely carry this sort of tool on the belt
Water drain holes
So all in all Quite Interesting to expand on my previous post
in general I like it and it would defiantly be an asset in a Survival situation the knife is solid and if you get to know it should be very versatile .. the sheath well....... isnt
and i really dont like the steel but would be the best bet in a true survival situation ..
For bushcraft be a little kinder to your blades
oks now you've read all that ( Sorry JonathanD wast happy with my earlier assessment
)here it is mostly again on Vidio so click to waste another 15mins of me rambling on
few mistakes before you start i realised after when I checked
its not the £255 version
i thought it was vertically jig ground but on the CC site it has a picture of free hand grinding
on closer look im not sure if the sheath is machine stitched or not
[video=youtube;86ZkOzhlpCs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86ZkOzhlpCs[/video]
Great review Dunc
You observed the secondary might not be quite "factory" when you got it - that would be down to me. I did work it hard and sharpen to suit
Red
You observed the secondary might not be quite "factory" when you got it - that would be down to me
. I did work it hard and sharpen to suitRed
Last edited:
SimonM
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Got it...
First impression - it's heavy and doesn't sharpen pencils (there are bits all over my office to prove it
).
I'll take it out and bash some hazel with it later.
Simon
First impression - it's heavy and doesn't sharpen pencils (there are bits all over my office to prove it
).I'll take it out and bash some hazel with it later.
Simon
Nice one mate. Very informative!
Just out of interest, In a survival situation would you choose the Kukuri or the CC?
I think kukuris can be abit cumbersome....
Just out of interest, In a survival situation would you choose the Kukuri or the CC?
I think kukuris can be abit cumbersome....
Nice one mate. Very informative!
Just out of interest, In a survival situation would you choose the Kukuri or the CC?
I think kukuris can be abit cumbersome....
wouldnt matter to me in a situation its the knowledge you have and what you use it to do
any of the sharps i showed will cover you for all you need to get you out of trouble
the CC tool, Kukri and Parang are all pretty much even in that one may cut a tree down in a few swipes less but they will all do it in a reasonable manner etc its only on Anal tests like these the differences show up
i would be happy to have the Axe or the Woody clone in the same situation they can both be used to do all the cutting jobs you need in an emergancy ok you wont be chopping down 6" trees with the Woody but you can still use it to build a shelter and process fire wood
and the axe or woody isnt the best fro cutting a path thro jungle
remember in a survival situation you dont get to choose and you will probably have nothing
ATB
Duncan
Got it...
First impression - it's heavy and doesn't sharpen pencils (there are bits all over my office to prove it
I'll take it out and bash some hazel with it later.
Simon
Was left as steeled in the Vidio so should do a pencil close to teh handle but that steel does give a very ruff edge and thoros up a fair burr espesially as its only low to mid 50s RC
ATB
Duncan
Got it...
First impression - it's heavy and doesn't sharpen pencils (there are bits all over my office to prove it
I'll take it out and bash some hazel with it later.
Simon
How's the hazel doing Simon?
SimonM
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sorry about the delay...SWMBO has been ill and I've been on house husband duties:togo:
I took the tool out twice, hazel beating and taking out some dead standing at two locations.
Both jobs were really just hack and slash type afairs.
The dead standing was about 5 inch dia. at its thickest. Once I got used to the weight of the tool, and how to swing it, I found it dealt with this easily.
Once the main trunks were down, I limbed them using the tool. This was easier than using an axe as the large blade and the weight made effort needed minimal.
The main trunks were then chopped to altar fire lengths. This allowed me to experiment a bit and I was soon able to put points on the end by making three or four cuts whilst turning the stakes.
The hazel was a bit of coppice that I use to provide projects for the Scouts (tent peg making coming up). I usually cut this with a folding saw, but the purpose of the test used the Survival Tool and cleaned up the stumps with the saw afterwards.
Once I got used to the angles needed to ensure a clean cut, the tool was going through in single swings for up to 1 inch dia. branches.
At this stage, I have to say that I have zero expeience with this type of tool, but actually quite enjoyed using it for these hack and slash type jobs.
Would I buy one?...Probably not as it is expensive for what it is.
Having said that, it has made me think about buying a machete...
Tool is packed up and waiting to go to Ged...SD of course!
Thanks to Stew for organising the passaround.:You_Rock_
Simon
I took the tool out twice, hazel beating and taking out some dead standing at two locations.
Both jobs were really just hack and slash type afairs.
The dead standing was about 5 inch dia. at its thickest. Once I got used to the weight of the tool, and how to swing it, I found it dealt with this easily.
Once the main trunks were down, I limbed them using the tool. This was easier than using an axe as the large blade and the weight made effort needed minimal.
The main trunks were then chopped to altar fire lengths. This allowed me to experiment a bit and I was soon able to put points on the end by making three or four cuts whilst turning the stakes.
The hazel was a bit of coppice that I use to provide projects for the Scouts (tent peg making coming up
). I usually cut this with a folding saw, but the purpose of the test used the Survival Tool and cleaned up the stumps with the saw afterwards.Once I got used to the angles needed to ensure a clean cut, the tool was going through in single swings for up to 1 inch dia. branches.
At this stage, I have to say that I have zero expeience with this type of tool, but actually quite enjoyed using it for these hack and slash type jobs.
Would I buy one?...Probably not as it is expensive for what it is.
Having said that, it has made me think about buying a machete...
Tool is packed up and waiting to go to Ged...SD of course!
Thanks to Stew for organising the passaround.:You_Rock_
Simon
SimonM
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Shall I send it to the next person on th elist then and come back to Ged later?
Simon
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