Anyone use parimo waterproofs?
What are your thoughts/how does it work?
Regards
Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk 2
What are your thoughts/how does it work?
Regards
Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk 2
Parimo?
- Thread starter Pignut
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If you mean Paramo, I've used them for decades. They've lasted for decades too. Highly recommended here.
One thing you need to get used to though - they're not waterproof, but highly directional to water vapour.
This has some interesting consequences:
They tend to be very warm to wear, so be careful in your selection if using in the warmer months.
Personally I wouldn't buy anything else now.
Peter
One thing you need to get used to though - they're not waterproof, but highly directional to water vapour.
This has some interesting consequences:
- You can rip them and just simply sew them back up and they're as good as they were before.
- You can put them on when you're soaking wet underneath and you will dry out.
- If you sit on a wet surface wearing Paramo wet weather trousers you'll get a wet backside, as the liquid water soaks into the fabric; once you stand up, you'll dry out again as the water vapour is forced through the fabric by your body heat.
They tend to be very warm to wear, so be careful in your selection if using in the warmer months.
Personally I wouldn't buy anything else now.
Peter
Thats the stuff.
So essentially you get wwt when it rains. But dry out when it stops
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So essentially you get wwt when it rains. But dry out when it stops
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I am struggling to see the point of these if they let the elements through......
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Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk 2
I'm not a fan, I like a waterproof that actually keeps the rain out. My Velez leaks like a sieve in any areas under compression like the shoulders or across the chest under a sternum strap. I've even suffered on day walk without a pack, driving rain walking the Kentmere horseshoe, after a couple of hours I was cold and soaked to the skin, and that was after just washing with Nikwax and reproofing.
Paramo fans will argue with you all day long about how great they are, I don't buy into myself. Give me a decent eVent or one of the new Goretex offerings anyday, even the old Paclite was superb and almost as breathable as eVent. One day on my TGO trip last year we walked 21 miles in driving rain, sleet and snow, temperatures barely above freezing. When we stopped to make camp I took off my Rab Demand smock and I was bone dry underneath, I know for a fact if I'd taken my Velez for that trip I would have spent the first week either wet through or damp at least.
I bought my Velez from the Paramo seconds shop on ebay, I've been curious about the stuff for years so thought £80 was a good investment for a £150 jacket. I still wear it now but on days when the little chance of rain, light showers are not a problem but prolonged downpours are.
Paramo fans will argue with you all day long about how great they are, I don't buy into myself. Give me a decent eVent or one of the new Goretex offerings anyday, even the old Paclite was superb and almost as breathable as eVent. One day on my TGO trip last year we walked 21 miles in driving rain, sleet and snow, temperatures barely above freezing. When we stopped to make camp I took off my Rab Demand smock and I was bone dry underneath, I know for a fact if I'd taken my Velez for that trip I would have spent the first week either wet through or damp at least.
I bought my Velez from the Paramo seconds shop on ebay, I've been curious about the stuff for years so thought £80 was a good investment for a £150 jacket. I still wear it now but on days when the little chance of rain, light showers are not a problem but prolonged downpours are.
I had one and did not like it as it was very warm, I have a standard gore-tex shell jacket now and and much happier with that as the under arm vents work well and it is not to warm when hiking and it keeps me dry
I had the whole system - Velez smock, Taiga fleece, Tiempo fleece, Mountain pull-on - and was very keen for a while. Then I got wet a few times and stayed wet and really went off the stuff. I am now back on Goretex or similar, with Ventile for a bit of fun if it is not really pouring down. My beef, in the end, with Paramo's system was :
- very warm in the summer months
- got heavy and baggy when wet
- leaks when kneeling / leaning on elbows or when wearing under a buoyancy aid
- gets wet and stays wet unless you are working hard and your body heat is drying it out. Wine-cooler chilling effect.
- regular proofing keeps the system fairy waterproof, but you never know when the proofing is wearing off. If it starts to leak on day one of a five-day trip, you have got a few wet days ahead of you
- odd hood design - I kept getting a press studded flap in the face
- expensive for what you get
On the plus side, it really does breathe and it is very tough. I think for running or cycling it is probably pretty good, or for just wearing as a soft-shell or mid-layer, if you have a proper waterproof in the rucksack.
I am also still a very big fan of their Fuera windshirt with hood. Superb piece of windproof kit, which I always carry.
- very warm in the summer months
- got heavy and baggy when wet
- leaks when kneeling / leaning on elbows or when wearing under a buoyancy aid
- gets wet and stays wet unless you are working hard and your body heat is drying it out. Wine-cooler chilling effect.
- regular proofing keeps the system fairy waterproof, but you never know when the proofing is wearing off. If it starts to leak on day one of a five-day trip, you have got a few wet days ahead of you
- odd hood design - I kept getting a press studded flap in the face
- expensive for what you get
On the plus side, it really does breathe and it is very tough. I think for running or cycling it is probably pretty good, or for just wearing as a soft-shell or mid-layer, if you have a proper waterproof in the rucksack.
I am also still a very big fan of their Fuera windshirt with hood. Superb piece of windproof kit, which I always carry.
I've had a Cascada for about 15 years now and I just love it The damn thing won't wear out!
BUT, some of the negative points above are valid.
They are warm, which doesn't bother me outside of high summer. I usually just wear a t shirt under it and roll the sleeves up.
They can let in water. Rucksack straps are a good example. I used to work in television as a sound recordist and the straps of my mixer harness used to force water through in the heaviest downpours. Then again goretex did the same.
Saying all that, I still love the Cascada. It sheds snow very well, has an excellent hood, great cuffs and I can reproof it when I want. The after sales service is superb. I had the zip replaced a couple of years ago (it was just starting to fail on the bottom section of the zip) and I sent it back to Paramo. For £30 they replaced the zip, all the velcro, all the press studs, washed and reproofed it. It was like new! It is now and old friend and I'd hate to be without it.
The Fuera windproof smock is what I wear when it isn't raining. It is carried with me all the time and it is one of my favourite garments ever. Cold when walking the dogs? Pop the Fuera on and warm up by breaking the wind (add a merino buff and it is superb). Winters day, cold but bright? Fuera and a micro fleece. Bird watching? Silent material in Moss green with a good hood to hide your face. It packs down to nothing and takes up little room in my bimble bag (1937 pattern satchel from Silvermans) so there is never a debate about whether it comes or not. Even if you don't buy a waterproof Paramo, do yourself a favour and get the Fuera.
BUT, some of the negative points above are valid.
They are warm, which doesn't bother me outside of high summer. I usually just wear a t shirt under it and roll the sleeves up.
They can let in water. Rucksack straps are a good example. I used to work in television as a sound recordist and the straps of my mixer harness used to force water through in the heaviest downpours. Then again goretex did the same.
Saying all that, I still love the Cascada. It sheds snow very well, has an excellent hood, great cuffs and I can reproof it when I want. The after sales service is superb. I had the zip replaced a couple of years ago (it was just starting to fail on the bottom section of the zip) and I sent it back to Paramo. For £30 they replaced the zip, all the velcro, all the press studs, washed and reproofed it. It was like new! It is now and old friend and I'd hate to be without it.
The Fuera windproof smock is what I wear when it isn't raining. It is carried with me all the time and it is one of my favourite garments ever. Cold when walking the dogs? Pop the Fuera on and warm up by breaking the wind (add a merino buff and it is superb). Winters day, cold but bright? Fuera and a micro fleece. Bird watching? Silent material in Moss green with a good hood to hide your face. It packs down to nothing and takes up little room in my bimble bag (1937 pattern satchel from Silvermans) so there is never a debate about whether it comes or not. Even if you don't buy a waterproof Paramo, do yourself a favour and get the Fuera.
My Velez Adventure Light keeps me dryer and more comfortable overall than any other rain jacket I've owned, although I've never tried it on a multi-day camping trip. I wouldn't want the heavey, non-"Light" version though, although the material is apparently tougher.
Paramo is by far the best solution I've found for keeping dry in sub-zero climates. It's also great for day trips in changeable weather. For constant rain or multi-day trips in warmer climes I use a hardshell system.
My Paramo Cascada is the best jacket I have had after trying just about everything over the years. I don't dispute some of the criticism above, but the perfect garment to satisfy my desire to have something that suits all conditions and circumstances has yet to be invented.
Now, how do you feel about Marmite?
Now, how do you feel about Marmite?
Paramo is the coat equivalent of marmite or vegemite. It works if you like it, doesn't if you don't. Simple as!
I got one shortly after they came out and wore it for years. It was the best waterproof I could afford as back then you had goretex = very very expensive, sympatex = expensive and not as good as goretex or the likes of cyclone - cheap enough but not very breathable. Then paramo came along being sold as waterproof. It kind of is but when there was a EU type of standard for waterproof clothing that came along it could no longer call itself waterproof because that test was set up for the likes of goretex which work through a barrier. Paramo works by pushing water out faster than it can come in. It really does keep you as dry as a barrier type membrane in that it doesn't work in rain. In rain you will always get wet with hard shells or paramo if you are working hard. Sweat will build up. Paramo is better at dealing with sweat but it is not as good at dealing with water from the outside. You will always get water forced through say by kneeling or straps. Even strong wind can drive rain through in rare cases.
As with any waterproof you need to ask whether your dampness is water from the outside or sweat from the inside. Makes no difference really as you will still be wet either source for it. If you control your temperature with either type of outer garment you stand to have a better chance of feeling comfortable and dry. With Paramo that means it is limited by season and temperature. Hard shells are limited by activity and humidity as they rely much more on a gradient to allow the moisture building up inside to transfer to the outside of the membrane and evaporate. If it can't evaporate whether due to wetting out of the outer face fabric or humidity outside then the moisture does not transmit through the membrane and you get wet. Paramo does not rely on the same situation as it actively "pumps" moisture through in one direction only.
I prefer not to wear waterproofs (I do call Paramo waterproofs since I view the standard test used in the industry as a Goretex/eVent stitch up of alternative systems). If it is raining hard I will generally be forced to wear one but with on body venting opened right up. In light to medium rain it is a non-membrane softshell if not too cold. I prefer to be wet and warm with a softshell that can dry quickly than wet and warm with a hardshell that is slow to dry out. I will always take off the hard shell at every opportunity possible. Even to the extent that I wear a pertex shell on more often than a waterproof. I even wear the pertex under a hard shell.
BTW PAramo tends to be a boxy fit. If you are tall and slim (athletic) then look elsewhere anyway as it won't fit. If it doesn't fit well then it won't work well. Same with hard shells. Look for fit first then fabric second IMHO/IME. You ideally want a simple shell that fits reasonably snugly with freedom of movement (does not rise up when you raise your arms) and as little fabric between you and the outside. This means few pockets. The more layers of fabric between you and the outside means reduced breathability which is probably more of a killer for staying dry than the fabric choice.
I got one shortly after they came out and wore it for years. It was the best waterproof I could afford as back then you had goretex = very very expensive, sympatex = expensive and not as good as goretex or the likes of cyclone - cheap enough but not very breathable. Then paramo came along being sold as waterproof. It kind of is but when there was a EU type of standard for waterproof clothing that came along it could no longer call itself waterproof because that test was set up for the likes of goretex which work through a barrier. Paramo works by pushing water out faster than it can come in. It really does keep you as dry as a barrier type membrane in that it doesn't work in rain. In rain you will always get wet with hard shells or paramo if you are working hard. Sweat will build up. Paramo is better at dealing with sweat but it is not as good at dealing with water from the outside. You will always get water forced through say by kneeling or straps. Even strong wind can drive rain through in rare cases.
As with any waterproof you need to ask whether your dampness is water from the outside or sweat from the inside. Makes no difference really as you will still be wet either source for it. If you control your temperature with either type of outer garment you stand to have a better chance of feeling comfortable and dry. With Paramo that means it is limited by season and temperature. Hard shells are limited by activity and humidity as they rely much more on a gradient to allow the moisture building up inside to transfer to the outside of the membrane and evaporate. If it can't evaporate whether due to wetting out of the outer face fabric or humidity outside then the moisture does not transmit through the membrane and you get wet. Paramo does not rely on the same situation as it actively "pumps" moisture through in one direction only.
I prefer not to wear waterproofs (I do call Paramo waterproofs since I view the standard test used in the industry as a Goretex/eVent stitch up of alternative systems). If it is raining hard I will generally be forced to wear one but with on body venting opened right up. In light to medium rain it is a non-membrane softshell if not too cold. I prefer to be wet and warm with a softshell that can dry quickly than wet and warm with a hardshell that is slow to dry out. I will always take off the hard shell at every opportunity possible. Even to the extent that I wear a pertex shell on more often than a waterproof. I even wear the pertex under a hard shell.
BTW PAramo tends to be a boxy fit. If you are tall and slim (athletic) then look elsewhere anyway as it won't fit. If it doesn't fit well then it won't work well. Same with hard shells. Look for fit first then fabric second IMHO/IME. You ideally want a simple shell that fits reasonably snugly with freedom of movement (does not rise up when you raise your arms) and as little fabric between you and the outside. This means few pockets. The more layers of fabric between you and the outside means reduced breathability which is probably more of a killer for staying dry than the fabric choice.
ive got cascada troosers and a made to measure cioch glamaig jacket which is ace as very light but still keeps me dry
get sweaty condensation still in the cascada troosers but plenty of zips for venting and I like how they are sort of rustle free, also have taken plenty of tramping through heather and bog myrtle without wearing through
get sweaty condensation still in the cascada troosers but plenty of zips for venting and I like how they are sort of rustle free, also have taken plenty of tramping through heather and bog myrtle without wearing through
I once fell through snow into water up to the top of my thighs, I'm 6`'5" so it was quite deep water. I was freezing fast so when I got out I ran around a bit, well as much as tiredness and deep snow allows, while whipping my gloves off. I was losing feeling in hands and a potentially serious situation was developing. Out comes my cascadas which were 20 years old, torn and repaired many times. Put straight over wet softshell trousers. 20 minutes later I had stopped cooling down as my long johns and trousers were bone dry. One hour later my hands were defrosted due to the extra warmth on my legs from the paramo trousers.
My conclusion is that paramo trousers are really good winter trousers for very cold UK temperatures. Other experiences of paramo tell me they are useless for any other times, at least for my purposes.
My conclusion is that paramo trousers are really good winter trousers for very cold UK temperatures. Other experiences of paramo tell me they are useless for any other times, at least for my purposes.
Although I wear a Paramo Velez Adventure Light jacket and think that it is very good, I wear the heavy-duty 'goretex'(or equivalent?) British Army Surplus trousers so that I can sit, kneel down (and wear with my surplus Hi-vis Goretex jacket on my motorbike) in the wet.
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I've got the Halcon jacket and trousers and a Torres Gilet. They are brilliant, I wear both year round with varying layers underneath. Great for hill walking, though maybe not so good for Basecamp.
