Open University.

[Broch]

I have a question - sorry if it feel like a thread HiJack

If you were going to employ someone new - and you had Two candidates - One with a degree unrelated to the industry that they were applying for an the other without a degree but equally no experience of the industry that they were applying for - would you favour the graduate?

And If so can I ask why?

Mmm... tough question. I would try and determine what they had done with their time - but it would depend on the job. I often got a lot more understanding of people if I asked about hobbies and experience. I would know that the person with the degree was capable of study and achieving a level of understanding (if it wasn't a Mickey Mouse subject); but the person without the degree may well be able to demonstrate commitment to learning on the job and applying themselves.

In the old days, depending on the exact job, I often favoured someone with an HNC to a BSc - they usually had a more practical approach to the subject. But, I also sponsored HNC and degree study for people that I felt would benefit from it.

It's also worth remembering that it wasn't just down to me - I had to sell their time to the customer and they had to be confident that the people were capable.

But, the short answer to your question is no - with no relevant experience, I would look at both candidates with an open mind.

 

[Furbles]

Hi @Dan00001, it sounds like you have already got lots of excellent advice, and you have spoken to the team at the OU, so I’ll just say this: I’m a Law Professor at a UK university, and so I know a bit about doing a degree and so on. I also have quite a few colleagues who work at the OU in both Law and Business, so if I can help in any way please do just message me.

 

[Dan00001]

Hi @Dan00001, it sounds like you have already got lots of excellent advice, and you have spoken to the team at the OU, so I’ll just say this: I’m a Law Professor at a UK university, and so I know a bit about doing a degree and so on. I also have quite a few colleagues who work at the OU in both Law and Business, so if I can help in any way please do just message me.

Thank you so, so much! I may have questions in future. It can be extremely helpful being able to talk to people with experience. Really appreciate it.

 

[Stew]

I have a question - sorry if it feel like a thread HiJack

If you were going to employ someone new - and you had Two candidates - One with a degree unrelated to the industry that they were applying for an the other without a degree but equally no experience of the industry that they were applying for - would you favour the graduate?

And If so can I ask why?

It depends on the field of work but if, hypothetically, I was looking to employ an assistant manager to my team then the degree would help. It would tell me that they can work to deadlines and work a computer. That alone wouldn't do it though as the role has a practical hands on element and also interaction with people.

Attitude counts for a lot for me. The ability to learn and adapt.

Other roles would vary!

 

[Stew]

Thank you. Yes, that is correct, a small garden centre which is currently seasonal and who I do with my dad.

There's basically two reasons why I want to do a degree in business.

1. It will help me run our current business, which we have invested dearly in, with both time and money, we've built the business up from a couple of tables of plants to weekly deliveries on an arctic lorry direct from Holland, we have bought about 2 acres of land, have now had drawings made to move business on to land and build a cafe, and planning application going in this year, so it would help me better understand business and run and expand our business, and..

2. I'm now 35 with no formal qualifications past GCSE. If our business fails, I have nothing to turn to that I have any interest in doing. I don't want to turn to physical labour/building type jobs, which is probably the obvious route for a male with no qualifications, and need something more stimulating than working in a supermarket or McDonalds etc. Although I have no qualifications since GCSE (I had very little direction or advice from anyone from a young age), I am quite smart and can be very motivated, and generally a fast learner.

Basically, for whatever reason, I've suddenly reached a point in life where I'm concerned for my future and my ability to provide a good life for myself and my family, I wish this was a concern 20 years ago but the way I see it now is that, fingers crossed, I have another 35+ years of working, that's another lifetime that has already passed, I don't want another 20 years to go by and then think I wish I had gone back to study and gained some qualifications 20 years ago.

I would say that just reading point 1 that you do have a lot of skills and experience that a lot of employers would want.

 

[Pattree]

I have a question - sorry if it feel like a thread HiJack

If you were going to employ someone new - and you had Two candidates - One with a degree unrelated to the industry that they were applying for an the other without a degree but equally no experience of the industry that they were applying for - would you favour the graduate?

And If so can I ask why?

I employed graduates typically where we needed innovation, current learning and some degree of management potential.
It was my job to train them to their task within the organisation.

Earlier in my career I was a well established trainer taking clients to diploma levels of management. I was already a thoroughly established trainer of trainers. I knew the task. I argued for my Masters degree so that I could be exposed to new thinking and bring back a creative/innovative perspective to the organisation.

There is a huge difference between training and education.
I regretted the merging of Polytechnics and Universities. They had started out with very different tasks. However by the time of the merger many departments were indistinguishable.

 

[TeeDee]

I employed graduates typically where we needed innovation, current learning and some degree of management potential.

It was my job to train them to their task within the organisation.

Earlier in my career I was a well established trainer taking clients to diploma levels of management. I was already a thoroughly established trainer of trainers. I knew the task. I argued for my Masters degree so that I could be exposed to new thinking and bring back a creative/innovative perspective to the organisation.

There is a huge difference between training and education.
I regretted the merging of Polytechnics and Universities. They had started out with very different tasks. However by the time of the merger many departments were indistinguishable.

So just rereading that - How much are you seeing that as 'raw resource requiring your training' compared to ' finished product ready to go' ?

And I guess the litmus test would have been to have taken non-graduates and provided them your training and to have seen how they absorbed the training.

 

[TeeDee]

Thank you. Yes, that is correct, a small garden centre which is currently seasonal and who I do with my dad.

There's basically two reasons why I want to do a degree in business.

1. It will help me run our current business, which we have invested dearly in, with both time and money, we've built the business up from a couple of tables of plants to weekly deliveries on an arctic lorry direct from Holland, we have bought about 2 acres of land, have now had drawings made to move business on to land and build a cafe, and planning application going in this year, so it would help me better understand business and run and expand our business, and..

2. I'm now 35 with no formal qualifications past GCSE. If our business fails, I have nothing to turn to that I have any interest in doing. I don't want to turn to physical labour/building type jobs, which is probably the obvious route for a male with no qualifications, and need something more stimulating than working in a supermarket or McDonalds etc. Although I have no qualifications since GCSE (I had very little direction or advice from anyone from a young age), I am quite smart and can be very motivated, and generally a fast learner.

Basically, for whatever reason, I've suddenly reached a point in life where I'm concerned for my future and my ability to provide a good life for myself and my family, I wish this was a concern 20 years ago but the way I see it now is that, fingers crossed, I have another 35+ years of working, that's another lifetime that has already passed, I don't want another 20 years to go by and then think I wish I had gone back to study and gained some qualifications 20 years ago.

MASSIVE RESPECT for this - the grind from ( respectfully ) creating something substantial , tangible , profitable and increasing in value from nothing is not to be underestimated.
It maybe underestimated from those that have never done it themselves , but not from those that have.

Seriously well done.

 

[Pattree]

So just rereading that - How much are you seeing that as 'raw resource requiring your training' compared to ' finished product ready to go' ?

Massively. Also, as far as is sensible I want to pick the graduates pockets before they get too “polluted” by the existing company culture.

Once you get above line manager the task becomes almost irrelevant. I have a daughter who got an MSc in Geology and trained as an engineering geologist and a son in law who gained a PhD in Oceanography and trained as a flow mechanics scientist. Both are now generic project managers. It doesn’t really matter what the project is. They need to be good at planning, controlling and motivating, organising and above all communicating.

When @Dan00001 graduates he will not necessarily be better at growing plants in his garden centre but he will be buzzing with ideas about how to grow the business.

Edited to add:

It was long ago and far away.
I’ve been happily retired for a long time.

 

[Chris]

Having done lots of hiring in the Tech sector:

I’d prefer someone with no qualifications/experience and the right attitude over someone with a degree, no experience and the wrong attitude.

I’d take someone with relevant experience over someone with only a degree.

I’d take someone just with a degree into a junior role, they’d start at close to the same place (pay/seniority wise) as someone without qualifications or experience but with a hunger to learn and a generally good attitude.

If there were two people both with great attitudes and all else was equal, but one of them had a relevant degree which meant they could display a better understanding of the work and concepts they’d be dealing with, they’d be the first choice.

If there were two people both with great attitudes and all else was equal, but one of them had an irrelevant degree, that degree would not give them any advantage in my decision.

Skills are easily teachable at work, attitudes and behaviours are not.

That said there are some degrees that are essential for the role. I wouldn’t want a doctor without a medical degree, or a solicitor without a law degree. Sounds like Dan’s got his head screwed on tight and is looking at a degree that’ll have tangible, applicable benefits and bolster his already impressive experience.

 

[Dan00001]

I would say that just reading point 1 that you do have a lot of skills and experience that a lot of employers would want.

Thank you, appreciate it!

 

[Dan00001]

MASSIVE RESPECT for this - the grind from ( respectfully ) creating something substantial , tangible , profitable and increasing in value from nothing is not to be underestimated.
It maybe underestimated from those that have never done it themselves , but not from those that have.

Seriously well done.

Thank you, appreciated. Massive respect for anyone who builds something from scratch, the hours put in, and the emotional drain, it's definitely not easy. Not that I don't have respect for anyone who works hard.

Our business has plateaued over the last couple of years, our sales and revenues have sort of flatlined, I need to think of a way to push us higher. I'm currently thinking online content and marketing. TikTok/Instagram videos etc. 'Here's three plants that I would recommend for a shaded area' etc. etc.

 

[TeeDee]

Thank you, appreciated. Massive respect for anyone who builds something from scratch, the hours put in, and the emotional drain, it's definitely not easy. Not that I don't have respect for anyone who works hard.

Our business has plateaued over the last couple of years, our sales and revenues have sort of flatlined, I need to think of a way to push us higher. I'm currently thinking online content and marketing. TikTok/Instagram videos etc. 'Here's three plants that I would recommend for a shaded area' etc. etc.

I think thats an excellent idea - plenty of social media type instructional type vids out there and create some links back to your business.

 

[Dan00001]

I think thats an excellent idea - plenty of social media type instructional type vids out there and create some links back to your business.

Yes, currently reading up on content creating, video editing, public speaking/story telling, and practicing speaking on camera, which doesn't come easy to me.

 

[TeeDee]

Yes, currently reading up on content creating, video editing, public speaking/story telling, and practicing speaking on camera, which doesn't come easy to me.

Check out Toast masters for the public speaking bit.

Home

Toastmasters International is a nonprofit educational organization that builds confidence and teaches public speaking skills through a worldwide network of clubs that meet online and in person. In a supportive community or corporate environment, members prepare and deliver speeches, respond to...

www.toastmasters.org

 

[Dan00001]

Thank you, will have a look now.

 

[Stew]

Yes, currently reading up on content creating, video editing, public speaking/story telling, and practicing speaking on camera, which doesn't come easy to me.

It feels really cringe, right?

I feel like a real idiot doing it.

 

[Dan00001]

It feels really cringe, right?

I feel like a real idiot doing it.

Yes, and my brain seem to go to mush, even though there's nobody actually watching me, just a camera. But I'm guessing, like anything, the more I do it, the better and the more confident I'll get at doing it.

 

[Paul_B]

You have your head screwed on right. You're not looking to learn for learning sake but to grow yourself to better grow your business. You have an end game I think which is a better business and a means to get there through knowledge. If that makes sense.

Can I just point out that the benefit of OU is the credit system. You say you are looking for a degree but there are two potential levels before that and IIRC two levels after with their postgraduate courses from post-grad diploma to full masters. Where you stop is up to you.

I say that because you might find the you get what you need from OU for your business and future success after two years of courses or need the 6 years for a part time honours degree. That is all your choice and TBH there might be no point going further if you have the business knowledge, ideas, etc before the honours degree stage.

Just a thought, take from it what you want.

 

[TeeDee]

Yes, and my brain seem to go to mush, even though there's nobody actually watching me, just a camera. But I'm guessing, like anything, the more I do it, the better and the more confident I'll get at doing it.

I suggest you take a step away from yourself mentally- it psychological but adopt a different version of yourself, think of an alternative version of yourself whom IS a skilled speaker and presenter , it should feel slightly different because you're presenting from a different part of your brain - the creative side , imagining the full confident , vocal , gregarious , extrovert version of Dan. Once the presentation is over you can revert to your 'true' self - but the truth is both versions are you, one is just less practiced and feels strange - like new trousers.

Over time and experience of doing it the two versions will become closer and closer until they identify as being the same.

Head tricks!!